Runningman
Active Member
That doesn't refer to his name being hallowed. It does not say what you claim it does.
Jesus Christ is the wisdom and creation of God
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
Yes it does.
Only because you are confused.
civic
Active Member
nope He was together with the Father BEFORe creation sharing the same Glory together with the Father- John 17:5
next fallacy
Runningman
Active Member
Where does it mention the name of Jesus being hallowed?
Runningman
Active Member
You're the one arguing against wisdom being created. Are you sure you're not confused?
Runningman
Active Member
Glory is a figurative sense, but he was created so Jesus' glory was something that he had not yet obtained.
In 1 Pet. 3:15 teaches it.
It's foolishness, in my view, to preach to others that God Existed before the "Wisdom of God" existed. Or that God existed before the "Word of God" existed. Or that God existed before the "Spirit of God" existed.
Clearly their is no beginning or end to the Wisdom of God or the Spirit of God or the Word of God. And clearly Jesus was the Spirit, the Word and the Wisdom of God, that became mortal Flesh.
While it is true that the man Jesus didn't exist before the virgin birth, the Spirit of God, the Wisdom of God, the Word of God existed, and Abraham, Noah and Israel, ate and drank of this Spirit, Wisdom and Word of God. Paul called these things, "Christ".
I find no contradictions to his understanding in Scriptures.
Runningman
Active Member
Where?
1 Peter 3
15But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect,
Runningman
Active Member
Two different senses of God's wisdom. One is God's wisdom by which He created. We have no idea how He did that aside from using spoke words. The other sense of wisdom is the revealed kind of wisdom such as by what is self-evident by creation itself. We can draw from creation that God is very power, very wise, and obviously had a plan for Jesus in His foreknowledge. That's really what it's all about. Christ is thus the created wisdom of God.
There.
DavidTree
Active Member
The LORD is the Word that was God from the Beginning = Genesis 1:1-3 and John chapter 1 and Colossians 1:15-18
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Lord Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,
that in all things He may have the preeminence.
DavidTree
Active Member
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He [a]should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
John 17:1-5
civic
Active Member
Nope your presuppositions are not allowing you to understand Jesus teaching in John 17:5. You are denying His words
DavidTree
Active Member
There is your evidence = we can only "be holy as HE is holy" for everything holy comes from a Holy God.
DavidTree
Active Member
John 1:14, Colossians 1:15, and Revelation 3:14 all declare that the Word/Jesus created all things
Runningman
Active Member
Your gaslighting isn't working.
DavidTree
Active Member
It is so much easier to agree with God then to fight against His words.
The moment you kneel before the Lord Jesus Christ and pray for His help the sooner His Help will come to you.
Runningman
Active Member
No you got it wrong. In John 1:1 the Greek phrase καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (“and the Word was God”) places theos first for emphasis. This is a well-known structure in Greek grammar to show nature, not identity. It’s not indefinite, it’s qualitative. John is saying the Word is of the same essence as God, but distinct from ton Theon (the Father)." Thus, the Word is godly, but is not God. John 1:3 that says, “All things were made by Him,” but the last-mentioned God in verse 2 is the God the Word was with, The Father. The "Him" in John 1:3, according to standard pronoun antecedent agreement, would mean the Father is the Creator, not the Word.
We can look a bit more past John 1:1-3 to see another example of how the Word is not the Creator. For example, in John 1:9 the True Light is said to have been coming into the world in the present tense after John the Baptist had already been testifying about the True Light. John and Jesus Christ were around the same age, about 30 years old, by the time John was already baptizing. This would place the coming of the True Light into the world during the time that Jesus was already 30 years old, meaning that Jesus is not himself the True Light. Therefore, John 1:10 says "...the world was made through Him..." would rule out the Word or Jesus as being the Creator, but rather the Father.
The account from Genesis 1 doesn't match the account from John 1 since there is no evidence of someone named the Word there in the beginning with God.
1 John 1:1-3, that explicitly identifies the Word using impersonal pronouns "that, which, this, it" means that John didn't believe the Word is literally God, but rather a thing. Hence the Word is godly in John 1:1 as I stated in my previous post. John 1:1. The Word is eternal life and that is a thing as Apostle John said.
