Jesus broke the law of Moses

[Studyman]

Heb 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

The issue is "remission of sins". And the old Priesthood Covenant "After the Order of Aaron" VS. the New Priesthood Covenant "After the Order of Melchizedek". The Priesthood Covenant with Levi was always temporary. The Faithful waited for the Prophesied Salvation of God to Come, as Zacharias clearly shows in Luke 1. A New Ministry for the remission of Sins. No more sacrificial "works of the law" to partake of, before a Priest would provide for atonement. It wasn't God's Definition of Sin, Righteousness, Clean and Holy that was prophesied to end. It was the Manner in which God's Laws were administered, and the Manner in which sins are forgiven. These are the things prophesied to change in Jer. 31. Anyone can go there themselves and see for themselves, just as they can go to Hebrews 7-10, and read the same thing. It was the Priesthood that changed.

The deceiver would have us believe God Prophesied of the abolition of His Definition of Holy, Just and Good. But that isn't true, according to Scriptures. What was prophesied to end was the Levitical Priesthood sacrifices and offerings for sin that was to be in place "Till the True Lamb of God" should come. Jesus was that Lamb walking in all the Commandments of God Blameless from His Youth.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Matt. 8: 4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

No, you can't use the Law of the Leper as "Moses Law".

Lev. 14: 1 And "the LORD spake" unto Moses, saying, 2 "This shall be the law of the leper" in the day of his cleansing: "He shall be brought unto the priest".

In your religion, who gave the leper to the Prophesied Priest of God, (Like unto Moses) "in the day of his cleansing"? Of course you will not answer.

It's OK PY. I know how important it is for one to justify their philosophies. I only posted for the reasons I said I posted. I know you cannot be persuaded that Jesus didn't break God's Laws, Jesus Himself told me.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though onerose from the dead.

Jesus used the name of Moses. You haven't explained why Jesus mentioned Moses instead of "God" or the "Lord".

The "Lord" you're referencing was right there with that leper. Christ was with Moses in the wilderness.
1Co 10:1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,

1Co 10:2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

1Co 10:3 and all ate the same spiritual food,

1Co 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Hebrews 8:13 talks about the Old covenant becoming obsolete, the New covenant will be written on hearts as Jeremiah predicted. Jesus FILLING FULL God’s Law was separate from the Old Covenant of the blood of bulls and goats becoming obsolete making way for Jesus’s blood being sufficient once and for all times.

In Deuteronomy 31:24-27 it speaks of the Handwritten ordinances (Mosaic Law)

24 ¶ When Moses had finished writing the words of this law in a book to the very end,
25 Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD,
26 “Take this Book of the Law and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.
27 For I know how rebellious and stubborn you are. Behold, even today while I am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against the LORD. How much more after my death!

This Mosaic Law (handwritten ordinances held as a witness against) us was NAILED TO THE CROSS.

God’s moral law remains as heintended FILLED FULL to it’s original extent and meaning, with the spirit as well as the letter.

Thanks for yoir inquiry!

Was what you reference as "the moral law* written?

 

[praise_yeshua]

The issue is "remission of sins". And the old Priesthood Covenant "After the Order of Aaron" VS. the New Priesthood Covenant "After the Order of Melchizedek". The Priesthood Covenant with Levi was always temporary. The Faithful waited for the Prophesied Salvation of God to Come, as Zacharias clearly shows in Luke 1. A New Ministry for the remission of Sins. No more sacrificial "works of the law" to partake of, before a Priest would provide for atonement. It wasn't God's Definition of Sin, Righteousness, Clean and Holy that was prophesied to end. It was the Manner in which God's Laws were administered, and the Manner in which sins are forgiven. These are the things prophesied to change in Jer. 31. Anyone can go there themselves and see for themselves, just as they can go to Hebrews 7-10, and read the same thing. It was the Priesthood that changed.

The deceiver would have us believe God Prophesied of the abolition of His Definition of Holy, Just and Good. But that isn't true, according to Scriptures. What was prophesied to end was the Levitical Priesthood sacrifices and offerings for sin that was to be in place "Till the True Lamb of God" should come. Jesus was that Lamb walking in all the Commandments of God Blameless from His Youth.

The order of Melchedek isn't new. It very old. It is from the beginning. It survived in Noah in a priestly people. The doctrine of the individual priesthood of every believer.

 

[Jaime]

Was what you reference as "the moral law* written?

The 10 Commandments were written by the hand of God. They were held INSIDE the Ark. Moses’ book of handwritten ordinances were kept BESIDE the ark and were eventually nailed to the cross per Colossians chapter 2. God’s eternal moral law remains.

 

[Soyeong]

You ignored the other part of my response.

Have you ever been judged by your law?

In what capacity?

 

[Soyeong]

God’s Law was for a blessing. Man perverted it into a curse with manmade traditions such as hand washings and such that Jesus ran affoul of the Pharisees in Mark 7, (not God’s Torah) God’s Law was perfect and for a blessing to mankind. The handwritten ordinances held as a witness against us, (the Mosaic Law) and stored BESIDE the Ark and was what was nailed to the cross. God’s perfect and just moral Law remains.

Deut 31:24 -27
24 ¶ When Moses had finished writing the words of this law in a book to the very end,
25 Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD,
26 “Take this Book of the Law and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.
27 For I know how rebellious and stubborn you are. Behold, even today while I am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against the LORD. How much more after my death!

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded him without departing from it, which is why the Law of Moses is called the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23.

In Matthew 27:37, they nailed a handwritten ordinance to Christ's cross that announced the charge that was against him that he was the King of the Jews, which fits perfect with the concept of a handwritten ordinance that announced the charges that were against us being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with nailing any laws to the cross. In Titus 2:14, it doesn't say that Jesus gave himself to free us from any laws, but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20). In Psalms 119:29-30, the Mosaic Law is perfect. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to be in God's likeness through embodying His character traits, so all of God's laws are moral laws.

 

[Jaime]

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded him without departing from it, which is why the Law of Moses is called the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23.

In Matthew 27:37, they nailed a handwritten ordinance to Christ's cross that announced the charge that was against him that he was the King of the Jews, which fits perfect with the concept of a handwritten ordinance that announced the charges that were against us being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with nailing any laws to the cross. In Titus 2:14, it doesn't say that Jesus gave himself to free us from any laws, but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20). In Psalms 119:29-30, the Mosaic Law is perfect. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to be in God's likeness through embodying His character traits, so all of God's laws are moral laws.

 

[Jaime]

The Mosaid law was handwritten ny Moses for rhenpirpose of a witness against mankind and was nailed to the cross per Col chapter 2. Not so with the 10 Commandments AKA god’s eternal moral law. His instruction against mirder, adulter, lust and covetousness and honoring our parents etc are still in affect. All of that (10 commandments) falls under love God and love your neighbor as yourself, ironically. Jesus’s two great commandments.

 

[Soyeong]

I agree with this much, at least.

Christ was the promised heir of Abraham's covenant.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is in accordance with Christ being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth shall be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their hearts by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom, and because they did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through the Mosaic Law, so both Abraham and Moses spread the Gospel of the Kingdom by teaching how to walk in God's way.

Moses' covenant came later and was "added because of transgressions." It was meant to be a temporary covenant for the PUNISHMENT of Israel.

The prophet Jeremiah was already declaring the dereliction of Moses' covenant and the establishment of a "New Covenant" in the 8th century BC.

9 centuries later, some bass-ackwards Israelites were still clinging to their covenant of PUNISHMENT out of false-piety. Moses' Law gave them the opportunity to ESTABLISH THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS against that of their neighbor.

Nowhere does the Bible say either that the Mosaic Covenant was temporary or that it was a punishment for Israel, but rather it says that the Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8) and that the Mosaic Law was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). In Deuteronomy 30, it forms the basis for the New Covenant by prophesying about a time when the Israelites would return from exile, God would circumcise their hearts, and they would return to obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is what Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27 are in regard to.

We can't establish our own righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law (Romans 4:1-5), so that has always been a fundmental misunderstanding of the goal of the law. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Mosaic Law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God but it was not based on knowing Him, so the failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as those righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own rather than pursuing it as through righteousness is by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith.

 

[Soyeong]

I don't necessarily disagree with any of those points, but it ought to be stated that the Law was NOT for a blessing. The Law contains both blessings and curses. The Israelites NEVER inherited the blessings, and ALWAYS inherited the curses. They broke the covenant even before they even sware to it:

37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: 39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust [him] from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt, 40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for [as for] this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. 41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. 42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices [by the space of] forty years in the wilderness? 43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon. (Acts 7)

In Deuteronomy 11:26-32, the difference between being under God's blessing or His cursed is based on whether they chose to serve God or to chase after other gods. Everyone being under God's curse does not reflect the reality of what is recorded about those who served God, just those who chased after other gods.

The Law may have become a schoolmaster, but originally...

It was added because of transgressions. Galatians 3:19

The Prophets and the New Testament agree... the sacrifices of the Law were never effective, never desired by God, nor accepted by Him.

18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light. ... 21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. 22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept [them]: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. 23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
(Amos 5)

Do you also take the position that God doesn't want us to praise Him with song? The problems was not that they were doing something that was never desired by God but rather the problem was that they were not being doers of righteousness and justice.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The 10 Commandments were written by the hand of God. They were held INSIDE the Ark. Moses’ book of handwritten ordinances were kept BESIDE the ark and were eventually nailed to the cross per Colossians chapter 2. God’s eternal moral law remains.

So you're promoting the 10 commandments as being Eternal?

Have you ever been judged by the 10 commandments yourself?

 

[praise_yeshua]

In what capacity?

Have you been judged by your law? Have you ever been judged against your own law you see as being the measurement of righteousness?

 

[Soyeong]

The Mosaid law was handwritten ny Moses for rhenpirpose of a witness against mankind and was nailed to the cross per Col chapter 2. Not so with the 10 Commandments AKA god’s eternal moral law. His instruction against mirder, adulter, lust and covetousness and honoring our parents etc are still in affect. All of that (10 commandments) falls under love God and love your neighbor as yourself, ironically. Jesus’s two great commandments.

The Bible does not use the Greek word "dogma" to refer to the Law of Moses. The witness against someone is not the law itself but their transgressions of it. The Romans did not nail any laws to crosses such that they had to legislate a new law against coming theft every time someone was crucified for committing for committing theft, but rather what the Romans nailed to crosses was a handwritten ordinance that announced the charge against someone that they had been found guilty of committing theft. The reason that Christ went to the cross was not to cause us free to do what the Mosaic Law reveals to be sin, but just the opposite.

The Mosaic Law contains 613 laws, ten of which are the Ten Commandments, and two of which are the greatest two commandments, not of which were nailed to the cross. In Psalms 119:160, it says that all of God's righteous laws are eternal, not just ten of them. Again, all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. Everything in the Law of Moses is either in regard to how to love God and our neighbor, which is why Jesus said that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, idolatry, or murder, but we also won't commit rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Mosaic Law.

 

[Soyeong]

Have you been judged by your law? Have you ever been judged against your own law you see as being the measurement of righteousness?

No, I would not be declared righteous even as the result of having had perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of becoming righteous (Romans 4:1-5), but rather it was given to describe the way to live righteously as is describes the life of Jesus. The one and only way to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result, but what it means to be righteous is to be someone who lives righteously in obedience to the Mosaic Law (1 John 3:4-7), so it would be contradictory for someone to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works. This is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works also upholds the Mosaic Law (Romans 3:28-31). Everyone who has faith will be declared righteous and everyone who has faith is a doer of the Mosaic Law, which is how Paul can deny in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our obedience while also affirming in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the Mosaic Law will be declared righteous.

While it is true that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he was a doer of righteous works because he believed God (Genesis 18:19) and that he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac because he believed God (Hebrews 11:17), so the faith by which he was declared righteous was also embodied through his works but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his works. In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Issac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they embodied his faith but not insofar as they were earning it as a wage.

 

[Jaime]

Handwritten ordinances held against is in a book or scroll placed beside the ark to be used as a witness against us. Separate from the 10 commandment tablets that were kept INSIDE the ark.

See Deut 31:24-26

24 ¶ When Moses had finished writing the words of this law in a book to the very end,
25 Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD,
26 “Take this Book of the Law and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you. (These handwritten ordinances of Moses were nailed to the cross per Col 2.)

 

[Soyeong]

Handwritten ordinances held against is in a book or scroll placed beside the ark to be used as a witness against us. Separate from the 10 commandment tablets that were kept INSIDE the ark.

See Deut 31:24-26

24 ¶ When Moses had finished writing the words of this law in a book to the very end,
25 Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD,
26 “Take this Book of the Law and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

If someone chose to obey God's law, then would not serve as a witness against them, but what is a witness against them is their their refusal to obey it. For example, if someone refrains from committing rape, then God's law is not a witness against them, but if they do commit rape, then their disobedience is a witness against them. What was nailed to Christ's cross was not the law against rape, but the charge that was against them of having committed rape in accordance with him going to the cross to pay the penalty for our sins. The reason why Christ went to the cross was not to free us from the law against committing rape.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, I would not be declared righteous even as the result of having had perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of becoming righteous (Romans 4:1-5), but rather it was given to describe the way to live righteously as is describes the life of Jesus. The one and only way to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result, but what it means to be righteous is to be someone who lives righteously in obedience to the Mosaic Law (1 John 3:4-7), so it would be contradictory for someone to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works. This is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works also upholds the Mosaic Law (Romans 3:28-31). Everyone who has faith will be declared righteous and everyone who has faith is a doer of the Mosaic Law, which is how Paul can deny in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our obedience while also affirming in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the Mosaic Law will be declared righteous.

While it is true that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he was a doer of righteous works because he believed God (Genesis 18:19) and that he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac because he believed God (Hebrews 11:17), so the faith by which he was declared righteous was also embodied through his works but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his works. In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Issac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they embodied his faith but not insofar as they were earning it as a wage.

You just basically contradicted yourself. Which is what most people do when they speak of "laws".

Laws can not define righteousness. They express basic limits to freedoms.

Laws judge the boundaries of acceptable actions at a very rudimentary level. Which is why judges are required to actually administer either punishment or freedom.

Is there any reward for keeping the law?

I ask this so you might understand your contradictions. You don't want to be judged by the law yet see righteousness in the demands of the law.

What does that make you?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Handwritten ordinances held against is in a book or scroll placed beside the ark to be used as a witness against us. Separate from the 10 commandment tablets that were kept INSIDE the ark.

See Deut 31:24-26

24 ¶ When Moses had finished writing the words of this law in a book to the very end,
25 Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD,
26 “Take this Book of the Law and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you. (These handwritten ordinances of Moses were nailed to the cross per Col 2.)

Are these ordinances a measure of morality?

 

[Jaime]

Are these ordinances a measure of morality?

It is my understanding these ordinances, aka the Law of Moses, fleshed out HOW to keep God’s Moral Law. I am open to consider another view.