Jesus as the Fulfillment of Israel: A Scriptural Reflection

[jeremiah1five]

You are sounding so ttypical

Faith is not a work. It is a Person. Just as heaven is a Person.
The Law and the Prophets is God's diction-ary that helps us pronounce the Name of the Savior, how to recognize Him and how to have a relation-ship with Him.
If you take away the Law and the Prophets, you take away thirty-eight "books" of the Bible and you are left with Psalms. And when you study the Psalms alone you will find the Law and the Prophets within its pages.
God gave the Law and God gave the Prophets to POINT the way to Him.
Men may be able to declare the Law and the Prophets as "abolished" or "obsolete" but God has placed the Law and the Prophets STILL in the heart of every true born-again believer in Christ.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:33–34.

God placed the Law and the Prophets in the 'heart' of Jesus and He is the Living Word of God to men; He IS that Law God promised to put in the inward parts of every Jew who becomes born-again. The Law and the Prophets has been attacked with every scroll that is written is declared "obsolete" by faithless men, But God laughs at you and them that seek to destroy His Word. man can do nothing against God's Law and God's Prophets. They will never submit to the whims of men to silence them, and God will have the last word on the subject.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Im not worried about all that stuff other people are worried about.

There are so many people that use the bible adnosem and suggest oh it must still be fulfilled.

I believe all things have been fulfilled because of Jesus, and I believe he returned and got his bride and it has nothing to do with a third temple.

That's the spirit! Er, um, I mean the LACK of One.

 

[GallagherM]

If you say so.

I get tired of people never saying not to believe them and find out for themselves.

People typically so full of themselves its not even of the spirit at all.



Judge all you want to I don't give 2 dams. They are like 150,000 dollars a piece to build. Beaver will do a better job, than a human anyway.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Im not worried about all that stuff other people are worried about.

There are so many people that use the bible adnosem and suggest oh it must still be fulfilled.

I believe all things have been fulfilled because of Jesus, and I believe he returned and got his bride and it has nothing to do with a third temple.

Are you a preterist?

 

[GallagherM]

Who cares

 

[FreeInChrist]

Who cares

I dont really.

Your "I believe all things have been fulfilled " is a preterist belief...

I was just curious.

 

[GallagherM]

well good cause it doesn’t matter what you believe if you aren’t able to love people.


At least your honest about “not caring”

That definitely isn’t a sin.

 

[armylngst]

I dont care for material Israel.

Its not the same Israel that was destroyed by the Romans.

The Israel destroyed by the Romans was the generation under judgment for the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That was a national sin, commited by the religious leaders of Israel. As Jesus ministry goes on, you see the people parroting the religious leaders in this sin, when they ask isn't this the guy with a demon? The judgment for "that generation" was AD 70. All who rejected the Messiah faced the judgment at AD 70. The believers who believed and accepted the Messiah, high tailed it out of Jerusalem a few years prior to AD 70. Why? They listened to Jesus warning. When they saw Roman soldiers surrounding the city in AD 66, they got ready. When the Romans withdrew, they fled.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Israel destroyed by the Romans was the generation under judgment for the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That was a national sin, commited by the religious leaders of Israel. As Jesus ministry goes on, you see the people parroting the religious leaders in this sin, when they ask isn't this the guy with a demon? The judgment for "that generation" was AD 70. All who rejected the Messiah faced the judgment at AD 70. The believers who believed and accepted the Messiah, high tailed it out of Jerusalem a few years prior to AD 70. Why? They listened to Jesus warning. When they saw Roman soldiers surrounding the city in AD 66, they got ready. When the Romans withdrew, they fled.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Israel destroyed by the Romans was the generation under judgment for the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That was a national sin, commited by the religious leaders of Israel. As Jesus ministry goes on, you see the people parroting the religious leaders in this sin, when they ask isn't this the guy with a demon? The judgment for "that generation" was AD 70. All who rejected the Messiah faced the judgment at AD 70. The believers who believed and accepted the Messiah, high tailed it out of Jerusalem a few years prior to AD 70. Why? They listened to Jesus warning. When they saw Roman soldiers surrounding the city in AD 66, they got ready. When the Romans withdrew, they fled.

The wrath of God was placed on Jesus on the cross on behalf of the children of Israel. This was their atonement, this was their forgiveness. And if the wrath of God was placed on Jesus on the cross, then the children of Israel have been forgiven their sin and God's wrath has been satisfied never again to be stored up against His covenant people ever again. PAY ATTENTION:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:33–34.

Israel's sins have been forgiven and the penalty for sin has been paid by the lamb of God on Calvary's cross.
Therefore, wrath has been expressed, and satisfaction of that wrath has been fulfilled. Forever.
Israel's sins have been atoned and God's wrath against sin in His universe has been forever satisfied and Israel's justification of "Not Guilty!" has been established upon God's people and there is no more sacrifice for sin ever again.

Now, I don't know about you, but God has declared me "Not Guilty!" of transgressing His Law and the Substitute that stood in my place receiving just penalty for my sin has been poured out on my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and I am no longer under the penalty for sin which is death. God has forgiven my iniquities and has Promised to remember them NO MORE! Now, God looks upon me as one who has never sinned against Him for all sin is against God and God will deal with sin in His own time and in His own way. Enter Jesus Christ, the Son of God, my Advocate, my Intercessor, and my High Priest who now represents God to me and me to God. I have a clean and sanctified relationship with God for His Son was imputed my sins and the Son's Righteousness has been imputed to me on my account.

I have been baptized into His body and it is impossible for me to "unbaptize" myself out of His body. I am perfectly and squarely in the palm of the Father and also in the palm of His Son and no one can snatch me out of His palm, not even I can do or say anything that would cause me to escape out of the palm of His hand:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
John 10:27–29.

This is called eternal security. Once a son, always a son and no one can un-son me from my Father's love and protection. His seed abides in me and He has known me from the foundation of the world.

PAY ATTENTION:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 1:3–14.

Study this. As Israel who is of mixed-race having at least one Hebrew parent in my ancestry God has given me His Holy Spirit of Promise which He Promised to His covenant people Israel according to the prophecies of Joel. And having been born-again of His Spirit I am now called by His Name and having all my sins atoned by the Son on His cross at Calvary He joins me to His body and I have been given eternal life never to die for sin as is the penalty God has placed upon the unatoned for the sins they commit by those "of the world."
Simply put it goes this way: I owed a debt I could not pay; He paid a debt He did not owe; I needed someone to wash my sins away. And now I sing a brand-new song: Amazing Grace, Christ Jesus paid a debt that I could never pay.

God made a covenant with a man named Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and extended that covenant to his biological seed. Having been given His Spirit as down payment (unction) with the evidence of speaking in tongues, I can now say that His Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a son of the Living God and He shall never leave me nor forsake me as His Beloved. I am joined to Christ, His Spirit, forever never to see or experience the pains of death and separation from God.

This is the result of Jesus Christ's work on His cross and I am forever forgiven of my sin, and He shall never ever remember them throughout eternity. I shall never die, although I shall at some future day pass from this life into the next with my Savior before me taking me into His Promised Land. These things have been accomplished by the Son on behalf of His covenant people. The wrath of God shall never be expressed against me for my sins have been atoned and I have been forgiven.

Thus, your belief that His covenant people Israel whom He has died for were destroyed for some sin that was not atoned on the cross is a belief that has no Biblical support. Whether a small group of Israelites have rejected Jesus is of no consequence. It was only a small number of Jews who against the millions alive at the time and who did not witness His crucifixion for these were scattered among the Gentiles living in Gentile lands and having grown up as Gentile does not matter. The scattering of His people was His will for in one night and part of the day, Jesus Christ was sent to Israel to atone Israel and prepare them into His Beloved. When all was said and done the veil to the Holy of Holies was torn from top to bottom and the way to God was opened to the people of Israel for all time, past, present, and future, and He comes again to gather His people from OUT OF those places He has sent them and He has given them His Spirit as Promised them by the prophet Joel and the Jewish people, the Hebrews of Abraham, have become the inheritors of eternal life in His Son. God did not punish His people in AD 70. God's wrath did not visit the Jewish people for they have been atoned, their sins forgiven and washed away, and they are in right standing with the God of the universe and of Abraham, and they have received eternal life in His Son, who is Messiah, who is Lord, and who is Savior and Deliverer of the Hebrew people according to the Scripture.

You're going to have to bring your beliefs into compliance with Scripture and in the end say the same thing as God for to say anything opposite what God has said is to oppose Him. And it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

 

[armylngst]

The wrath of God was placed on Jesus on the cross on behalf of the children of Israel. This was their atonement, this was their forgiveness. And if the wrath of God was placed on Jesus on the cross, then the children of Israel have been forgiven their sin and God's wrath has been satisfied never again to be stored up against His covenant people ever again. PAY ATTENTION:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:33–34.

You need to pay attention.
Luke 12:
8 “And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God; 9 but he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God. 10 And everyone who [g]speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him. 11 When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

Matthew 12:
22 Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to [v]Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. 23 All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?” 24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by [w]Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”

25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “[x]Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and [y]any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he [z]is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? 27 If I by [aa]Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.

Now, according to the religious leaders, anyone who casts out mute/dumb demon is the Messiah, because no human could cast out a mute/dumb demon. Why? According to rabbinical teachings, one needs the demons name in order to cast them out. Since a mute/dumb demon will never/can never give up their name, it is impossible to cast out. Even the disciples failed to cast out a dumb/mute demon, and Jesus went ahead and did it for them. He then told them that that kind of demon can only come out with prayer and fasting... unless your Jesus. His authority goes without saying.

30 He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

31 “Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 Whoever [ab]speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever [ac]speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

He is saying this tot hose religious leaders who just blasphemed the Holy Spirit. It shall not be forgiven, either in this age or the age to come. WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN. Jesus did not stutter.

Mark 3

"28 “Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30 because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”"

So, according to Mark... they were commiting it.

Israel's sins have been forgiven and the penalty for sin has been paid by the lamb of God on Calvary's cross.
Therefore, wrath has been expressed, and satisfaction of that wrath has been fulfilled. Forever.
Israel's sins have been atoned and God's wrath against sin in His universe has been forever satisfied and Israel's justification of "Not Guilty!" has been established upon God's people and there is no more sacrifice for sin ever again.

And yet again, you fail to understand how life works. Take this example. Israel entering into the land of Canaan. The 12 spies go out, and 10 say, don't go, two say, go, God will deliver, and all Israel says... nope, not going. God judges them, and gives out the judgment which is, they will not enter into the promised land, they will not pass go, they will not receive $200. They are shut out of the promised land, and will wander around the wilderness for 40 years instead. A number of the Hebrews repented of having disobeyed God, and took up arms to go take the land as God commanded. Scripture shows God forgave them all when they repented, however, God routed the Israelites, and refused to reverse His judgment. Yes, sins are forgiven, however, the physical judgment remains. One might even die. However, for Hebrew/Jewish people, the word saved and salvation usually refers to PHYSICAL salvation, not spiritual. So they may be saved, but they will still face discipline and judgment. There eternal security is secure however.

Now, I don't know about you, but God has declared me "Not Guilty!" of transgressing His Law and the Substitute that stood in my place receiving just penalty for my sin has been poured out on my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and I am no longer under the penalty for sin which is death.

He doesn't say not guilty, He says, forgiven. You are no longer under penalty of sin if you are saved (spiritually) however, you may still face punishment when you do sin (physical). This is the message of the book of Messianic Jews, I mean Hebrews. A portion of the book is dealing with believers who refused to mature. The author stating that they should be mature, in fact, they should be teachers themselves by now, but they haven't grown at all and remain immature. They have forgotten what they have known, and are neglecting so great a salvation. For this, they face the possibility of being turned over to Satan, where Satan may even be permitted to kill the believer. (Physical again). We see this with Paul, who turned over such a one to Satan that his flesh be destroyed, yet his soul may be saved.

God has forgiven my iniquities and has Promised to remember them NO MORE! Now, God looks upon me as one who has never sinned against Him for all sin is against God and God will deal with sin in His own time and in His own way. Enter Jesus Christ, the Son of God, my Advocate, my Intercessor, and my High Priest who now represents God to me and me to God. I have a clean and sanctified relationship with God for His Son was imputed my sins and the Son's Righteousness has been imputed to me on my account.

That is how punitive substitutionary atonement works. And Jesus did it for the whole world. The Old Testament, and Israel was just a taste of what was to come. Again, Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, and a priest, not of Israel, but of the line of Melchizedek, who was not a priest in any Judaic line. Jesus stands as the Messiah King of the Jews, and that will remain the case until the end of the Messianic Kingdom, as it isn't everlasting, but age-enduring. That age is the millennial kingdom. Everything you mentioned is attained by faith, not by covenant.

I have been baptized into His body and it is impossible for me to "unbaptize" myself out of His body. I am perfectly and squarely in the palm of the Father and also in the palm of His Son and no one can snatch me out of His palm, not even I can do or say anything that would cause me to escape out of the palm of His hand:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
John 10:27–29.

This is called eternal security. Once a son, always a son and no one can un-son me from my Father's love and protection. His seed abides in me and He has known me from the foundation of the world.

PAY ATTENTION:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 1:3–14.

Study this. As Israel who is of mixed-race having at least one Hebrew parent in my ancestry God has given me His Holy Spirit of Promise which He Promised to His covenant people Israel according to the prophecies of Joel. And having been born-again of His Spirit I am now called by His Name and having all my sins atoned by the Son on His cross at Calvary He joins me to His body and I have been given eternal life never to die for sin as is the penalty God has placed upon the unatoned for the sins they commit by those "of the world."
Simply put it goes this way: I owed a debt I could not pay; He paid a debt He did not owe; I needed someone to wash my sins away. And now I sing a brand-new song: Amazing Grace, Christ Jesus paid a debt that I could never pay.

None of this matters. Jesus came for both the Jews and the Gentiles. To the Jews, as their Messiah King. To the Gentiles, as a merciful loving Savior. The distinction remains until the consummation of everything.

God made a covenant with a man named Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and extended that covenant to his biological seed. Having been given His Spirit as down payment (unction) with the evidence of speaking in tongues, I can now say that His Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a son of the Living God and He shall never leave me nor forsake me as His Beloved. I am joined to Christ, His Spirit, forever never to see or experience the pains of death and separation from God.

This is the result of Jesus Christ's work on His cross and I am forever forgiven of my sin, and He shall never ever remember them throughout eternity. I shall never die, although I shall at some future day pass from this life into the next with my Savior before me taking me into His Promised Land. These things have been accomplished by the Son on behalf of His covenant people. The wrath of God shall never be expressed against me for my sins have been atoned and I have been forgiven.

Thus, your belief that His covenant people Israel whom He has died for were destroyed for some sin that was not atoned on the cross is a belief that has no Biblical support. Whether a small group of Israelites have rejected Jesus is of no consequence. It was only a small number of Jews who against the millions alive at the time and who did not witness His crucifixion for these were scattered among the Gentiles living in Gentile lands and having grown up as Gentile does not matter. The scattering of His people was His will for in one night and part of the day, Jesus Christ was sent to Israel to atone Israel and prepare them into His Beloved. When all was said and done the veil to the Holy of Holies was torn from top to bottom and the way to God was opened to the people of Israel for all time, past, present, and future, and He comes again to gather His people from OUT OF those places He has sent them and He has given them His Spirit as Promised them by the prophet Joel and the Jewish people, the Hebrews of Abraham, have become the inheritors of eternal life in His Son. God did not punish His people in AD 70. God's wrath did not visit the Jewish people for they have been atoned, their sins forgiven and washed away, and they are in right standing with the God of the universe and of Abraham, and they have received eternal life in His Son, who is Messiah, who is Lord, and who is Savior and Deliverer of the Hebrew people according to the Scripture.

As for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, it was a NATIONAL sin, perpetrated by the leadership of Israel, and projected through the people, who, later in Jesus ministry were asking, isn't He the One with a demon. That sin resulted in a national judgment, which was 70 AD. That generation that commited this sin, faced God's judgment for that sin in AD 70. Most if not all died. And it was Jesus, the one who was the propitiation of the sins of the world who said that the sin of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit would never be forgiven. AD 70 was going to happen no matter what. No amount of repentance would stop it. However, you still think like a Gentile, and don't seem to grasp the difference between physical death/salvation, and spiritual death/salvation.

You're going to have to bring your beliefs into compliance with Scripture and in the end say the same thing as God for to say anything opposite what God has said is to oppose Him. And it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

It is in compliance. Jesus came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but there is also a flock that is not His (why not? Gentiles are not God's chosen people), yet even though this flock is not His, He would gather them into the fold as well. One shepherd. Salvation is by grace through faith, and nothing else. No works, not because you were born of Abraham (Jesus fought that all the time), not because you are special or anything. As Paul says in Ephesians 1, it was by the pleasure of God's will, which I paraphrase as... He felt like it. No merit. Nothing special.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You need to pay attention.
Luke 12:
8 “And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God; 9 but he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God. 10 And everyone who [g]speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him. 11 When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

The Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is NOT a sin of the tongue but is a sin of the 'heart'/life.
Born-again Christians cannot commit this sin for their salvation is proof that they are called of God and the salvation bought by the Son on His cross at Calvary has been applied to their life by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus taught that from out of the mouth flow the issues of life and that life and death are in the power of the tongue. The more important thing that believers who have been born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise must understand about the "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is that it is impossible for them (born-again persons) to commit this sin.
It is NOT the sin of attributing something of God to evil, or something evil to God. This is what the sin of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is:

God sent His Spirit into the world for the purpose of applying to an elect person chosen from before the foundation (creation) of the world the salvation bought by the Son.
This is the Ministry of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL in the world today.
Thus, you have persons who are chosen by God to salvation at the appointed time in their lives. That is His Ministry as part of the Trinity of God who are directly involved in a person's salvation.

It was the Father's Plan.
The Son implemented that Plan.
And the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL applies that Plan to God's elect.

And yet there are person's physically alive that inhabit the planet that God has NOT chosen to salvation. They are the unatoned and they will and have NEVER been atoned. They are born to die and to be separated from God eternally. The sin of Blasphemy of the HOLY Spirit is not a sin of the tongue (blasphemy) but the existence of an unatoned person in the world that is an OFFENSE to God's Holiness and His Presence sent into the world to save His elect people. Jesus taught that what comes out of the mouth (tongue) reveals the condition of the 'heart' or life of a person.

33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. Matthew 12:33.

ONLY GOD can make a tree. ONLY GOD can make a tree (person) good and his fruit good, or else He makes a tree (person) corrupt and his fruit corrupt. For out of the abundance the mouth speaketh. And it speaketh lies or it speaketh truth.

36 But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Matthew 12:36–37.

Verse thirty-seven tells us that the words that come out of our mouths reveals the condition of our 'heart.' And our 'hearts' reveal whether we are people that have been justified (declared "Not Guilty!") or have been condemned by God. And it is the Ministry of the Holy Spirit who applies the justification from God upon a person or His Presence and Holiness have condemned that person for he/she shall never be saved at any point of their lives.

Now, consider: While the Hebrew people have been given the covenant through Moses a part of that covenant included the Ceremonial Law in which sacrifices and offerings are commanded of the children of Israel and this Ceremonial Law instructed every year the sacrifice of an animal whose blood was to be sprinkled upon the children of Israel and upon the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant along with the book of the covenant. EVERY YEAR while the children of Israel partook in these sacrifices and offerings to God through which God had 'covered' the sins of the children of Israel and temporary atonement had been made by the high priest, this went on every year through the centuries. And while this took place every year within the society and culture of the children of Israel there were non-Hebrew Gentiles who were NEVER given God's Law nor had God made provision for them to have their sins covered as God had covered the sins of Israel. Every year non-Hebrew Gentiles were born, and they died without their sins 'covered' by God through the sacrificial system of worship God commanded under the Law by the high priest and the children of Israel. FULL STOP.

Every day of every month of every year God dealt with the sins of the children of Israel and made provision - however temporary - for their atonement and for the forgiveness of their sins and this went on for centuries beginning in Egypt on their PASS-OVER and continued these practices in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle until the advent of the Son who would lay down His life so that finally and eternally the sins of God's covenant people would receive their final atonement through the blood of the lamb (of God) who took away the sins of God's people. For centuries non-Hebrew Gentiles were born, and they died without covenant and without covenant that commanded sacrifices and offerings that addressed the sins of the people at large. But at this time until the giving of the Holy Spirit of Promise to Israel non-Hebrew Gentiles were born and they died in their sins never to be atoned and never to be counted among God's elect people to whom salvation and redemption of their souls had been given. They were a people that were NEVER under God's Law and NEVER part of Israel's inheritance - including the advent of the Holy Spirit with whom the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah had been enacted by God on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest in which three thousand Jews were given a "new heart" and born-again by the Spirit promised to Israel. And while the children of Israel benefitted from God's Law, non-Hebrew Gentiles were born and died in their sins for centuries while the children of Israel offered sacrifices that allowed God's people to live an elect life in Him in their daily lives while non-covenant, uncircumcised, non-Hebrew Gentiles perished every day and every month and every year, and through countless centuries without a Savior and without the Spirit of God who was given to Israel and who would enter into the world and apply the salvation to the saints who have died under the Law and under covenant as well as saints alive at the time and saints yet to be born.
The Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is NOT a sin of the tongue but the existence of an unholy, unatoned people in the world alongside God's Holy Spirit whose Ministry is to apply the salvation bought by the Son and whose presence is an affront and offense against the Holy Spirit in the world today. Salvation is OF THE LORD, and it is He who determines the salvation of any man that is predestined to come into the world.

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matthew 12:31–32.

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Matthew 15:10–11.

God is patient and God is longsuffering awaiting the last person to be born at the appointed time and born-again at the appointed time and when this last person named in the book of life of the lamb has been brought into the kingdom of God, then the end will come. Then God's wrath will come upon non-Hebrew Gentiles and God will destroy those with the breath of His mouth.

16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Matthew 15:15–20.

The things that come out of the mouth come out of the 'heart' and it is through their mouths by which blasphemies and adulteries, and evil thoughts, fornications, etc., do not offend the Son for He came to atone the 'hearts' of His covenant people, but they are atoned and are made a 'good tree' while those identified as a 'corrupt tree' do not and cannot be saved because they are not chosen to salvation by the Father except those for whom the Father has given to the Son so that He may die in their stead and whose precious blood (life) washes away their sins in the presence of a people never to be bought or to be given salvation that only the Holy Spirit of Promise can give in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:24.

They are "lost" by virtue of their being created and blown into the nostrils of the first Adam in whom his loins the family line of God and Christ will come.

Matthew 12:
22 Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to [v]Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. 23 All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?” 24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by [w]Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”

25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “[x]Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and [y]any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he [z]is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? 27 If I by [aa]Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.

Now, according to the religious leaders, anyone who casts out mute/dumb demon is the Messiah, because no human could cast out a mute/dumb demon. Why? According to rabbinical teachings, one needs the demons name in order to cast them out. Since a mute/dumb demon will never/can never give up their name, it is impossible to cast out. Even the disciples failed to cast out a dumb/mute demon, and Jesus went ahead and did it for them. He then told them that that kind of demon can only come out with prayer and fasting... unless your Jesus. His authority goes without saying.

You do not follow the Word of God and instead you follow rabbinical teaching that in this present moment does not mimic God's Word on the subject of 'demon-possessed' persons. There are no "demons" and there are no fallen angels who have changed themselves into demons for demons in the Bible are not fallen angels. On top of this Scripture says through Peter 'the angels that sinned are locked up.'

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

In every encounter Jesus makes personally with an individual the first thing He does is subdue their attitudes, their 'spirits' in order to get them to thinking right and according to Scripture. Sometimes He does it with a "loud voice" and sometimes He does it through whispers, but the main thing is that Jesus does this with a word. And it is a word that He shall utter on the last day in which the bodies of His elect shall rise from their graves, and in a moment, in the twinkling of an [His] eye, their souls and spirits are joined once again to their rising bodies - no matter their corruption - and God's people are restored to a trichotomy (three-part being.)

30 He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

31 “Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 Whoever [ab]speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever [ac]speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

He is saying this tot hose religious leaders who just blasphemed the Holy Spirit. It shall not be forgiven, either in this age or the age to come. WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN. Jesus did not stutter.

Jesus is the man. Christ is the Spirit. The blasphemy is of the tongue which is the 'heart' that reveals itself as either being justified or being condemned is what determines if a person is saved or is not saved. A man who is justified can never commit the blasphemy Jesus is teaching about. But a person condemned already...

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God John 3:18.

...is a person whose existence in the world is an offense to the HOLY Spirit as He applies the salvation bought by the Son to God's elect. THAT IS what Jesus teaches about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is NOT a sin of the tongue but of the 'heart' which the tongue expresses. This is why we are to test the spirits so that we may learn who we are talking to or interacting with. There are two things that prompt my prayers and they are someone who asks me to pray for them or keep them in prayer; and the other is when God impresses upon me a burden to pray for a person. God would never place a burden upon me to pray for someone if they are not elect and predestined to salvation. A brother or sister that is born-again asks me to support them in prayer I will do. But God has given us the knowledge as to who I am to call "brethren" and who I must not. The only reason why and if I call someone "brethren" is when I learn whether or not we have the same Father.

Mark 3

"28 “Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30 because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”"

So, according to Mark... they were commiting it.

No, they were not. It is a sin of the 'heart' and true born-again persons cannot commit that sin for as justified persons they have been declared "Not Guilty!" but for those who will never be saved, these are the ones who are guilty of this sin. Those that are never to be saved are in the world along with the Holy Spirit and it is their presence in the world that is an offense to the Holy Spirit as He Ministers salvation to God's elect.

And yet again, you fail to understand how life works. Take this example. Israel entering into the land of Canaan. The 12 spies go out, and 10 say, don't go, two say, go, God will deliver, and all Israel says... nope, not going. God judges them, and gives out the judgment which is, they will not enter into the promised land, they will not pass go, they will not receive $200. They are shut out of the promised land, and will wander around the wilderness for 40 years instead. A number of the Hebrews repented of having disobeyed God, and took up arms to go take the land as God commanded. Scripture shows God forgave them all when they repented, however, God routed the Israelites, and refused to reverse His judgment. Yes, sins are forgiven, however, the physical judgment remains. One might even die. However, for Hebrew/Jewish people, the word saved and salvation usually refers to PHYSICAL salvation, not spiritual. So they may be saved, but they will still face discipline and judgment. There eternal security is secure however.

The salvation Jesus bought on His cross is a redemption that covers man's trichotomy of body, soul, and human spirit. Since the day Adam and the woman disobeyed God and their human spirit died within them communication with God changed. Without a human spirit man became a dichotomy of body and soul - no human spirit. Thus, a three-part man (body, soul, human spirit) will never be cast into "hell" or eternal separation from God because when they become born-again God creates a new human spirit in that person and the trinity of God is restored and His image is restored in that person. This is when God said, "Let us make man in our image" God was looking forward to the day in which Christ comes and in our salvation we are made to conform to the image of Christ. Having a human spirit allows us to process spiritual phenomenon and communicate with God who is Spirit.

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Ephesians 4:24.

This is what God was referring to when He said, "Let us make man in our image." Once we become born-again by the Spirit is when we fulfill the command God gave us to "be ye holy for I AM holy" attaches itself to our inner man. It was never meant to refer to Adam for First Corinthians 15 distinguishes between the earthy and the heavenly; between Adam and Christ, who is THAT Spirit. We are being conformed in our conversion into the image of Christ, NOT Adam. And Christ is the image of God.

With this in mind God can and has killed off His covenant people. They don't lose their salvation, but God does take them out of the picture through death. Take the 23,000 Hebrews who through Moses God killed off for that issue with the golden calf. God's Promises do not change. If one Hebrew is in covenant with God, then nothing can change their being inheritors of the Promises. God might kill them off, but His Promises still stand. Those He kills off die in covenant just as Abraham did, and Isaac did, and Jacob did, and David did. These are the Old Testament saints that went with Jesus into heaven - just as Judas is, too. Yeah, people have a problem with that one. No matter. Jesus promised the twelve a throne from which they will judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Jesus said it to the twelve disciples and a Promise is a Promise and God keeps all His Promises. A person to whom God has justified is a person with whom God will inhabit through His Spirit.

He doesn't say not guilty, He says, forgiven. You are no longer under penalty of sin if you are saved (spiritually) however, you may still face punishment when you do sin (physical). This is the message of the book of Messianic Jews, I mean Hebrews. A portion of the book is dealing with believers who refused to mature. The author stating that they should be mature, in fact, they should be teachers themselves by now, but they haven't grown at all and remain immature. They have forgotten what they have known, and are neglecting so great a salvation. For this, they face the possibility of being turned over to Satan, where Satan may even be permitted to kill the believer. (Physical again). We see this with Paul, who turned over such a one to Satan that his flesh be destroyed, yet his soul may be saved.

That's what I posit once before on this forum. If death is the penalty for sin and we die, then what sin is it that kills us? Have we or have we not been atoned and our sins past, present, and future? Have we been forgiven and our sins washed away? There will come a day in which I will die. Haven't all my sins been washed away and atoned? Yes, my sins have been atoned. So, what sin is it that wasn't atoned on the cross that I suffer the penalty of death for a sin that kills me? It is appointed unto man once to die. So, if and when I die there is a sin that is deemed of God to kill me. But I thought all my sins have been forgiven. You follow what I am saying?

That is how punitive substitutionary atonement works. And Jesus did it for the whole world. The Old Testament, and Israel was just a taste of what was to come. Again, Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, and a priest, not of Israel, but of the line of Melchizedek, who was not a priest in any Judaic line. Jesus stands as the Messiah King of the Jews, and that will remain the case until the end of the Messianic Kingdom, as it isn't everlasting, but age-enduring. That age is the millennial kingdom. Everything you mentioned is attained by faith, not by covenant.

IF Jesus did "it" for the whole world then the whole world will be saved and this is "Universalism" which is unbiblical. And no, it is not by OUR faith but Jesus' faith in covenant that saves me. As long as I am an heir to covenant promises then everything has been addressed by God because of covenant. But still faith is not a requirement for covenant. It never was. God made covenant with Abraham and with his biological seed. Non-Hebrew Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham. That is impossible. Two Hebrew parents cannot birth a non-Hebrew baby. Thus, non-Hebrew Gentiles are NOT heirs of the Abraham, Mosaic, or New Covenants. God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. If so then what is his name and what are the terms of that covenant?

None of this matters. Jesus came for both the Jews and the Gentiles. To the Jews, as their Messiah King. To the Gentiles, as a merciful loving Savior. The distinction remains until the consummation of everything.

God made covenant with Abraham and his biological seed. He asked for an heir and God gave him one: Isaac.
Isaac had Esau and Jacob and while Esau was blessed with faithful Abraham, he is not heir of the Promises. God tells us who is to inherit His Promises. And it is NOT non-Hebrew Gentiles who are heirs for they are nothing to the LORD. They are "less than nothing and vanity."

As for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, it was a NATIONAL sin, perpetrated by the leadership of Israel, and projected through the people, who, later in Jesus ministry were asking, isn't He the One with a demon. That sin resulted in a national judgment, which was 70 AD. That generation that commited this sin, faced God's judgment for that sin in AD 70. Most if not all died. And it was Jesus, the one who was the propitiation of the sins of the world who said that the sin of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit would never be forgiven. AD 70 was going to happen no matter what. No amount of repentance would stop it. However, you still think like a Gentile, and don't seem to grasp the difference between physical death/salvation, and spiritual death/salvation.

It is in compliance. Jesus came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but there is also a flock that is not His (why not? Gentiles are not God's chosen people), yet even though this flock is not His, He would gather them into the fold as well. One shepherd. Salvation is by grace through faith, and nothing else. No works, not because you were born of Abraham (Jesus fought that all the time), not because you are special or anything. As Paul says in Ephesians 1, it was by the pleasure of God's will, which I paraphrase as... He felt like it. No merit. Nothing special.

The children of Israel have been atoned. They can never commit the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Nor was the Romans used of God to punish the Israelites. Non-Hebrew Gentiles do not have a covenant with God and they never will. For centuries the Jews were sacrificing animals yearly for their sins while non-Hebrew Gentiles were born and died without salvation. Straight to "hell", do not Pass Go, do not collect $200. The Old Testament is a book telling the history and relationship between them and the God of Abraham.Thirty-nine "books" and each one is taught, instructed, commanded, and spoken to the children of Israel. It's their covenant. Why do some add to the Bible in saying non-Hebrew Gentiles are heirs of the Promises? Jesus died for the children of Israel and no Gentiles are included. God does not change. His Promises are eternal. His Promises were made and given to Abraham and when he died Isaac inherited his Promises, and when Isaac died Jacob inherited those Promises, and when Jacob died the inheritance passed to his twelve sons. And so on and on.

Salvation is within covenant. Once one is in covenant then relational particulars are established. One of those particulars is God asks for our trust and obedience. But neither of these if lacked or absent does not disqualify an inheritor from his inheritance. The covenant is what's important and the covenant comes with Promises of God to Abraham and his seed. In all my reading and study of the Old Testament and the New Covenant writings I find no covenant between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.

None.

 

[armylngst]

The Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is NOT a sin of the tongue but is a sin of the 'heart'/life.

That is not what Jesus said. That is not even close to what Jesus said. Scripture is clear that the whole reason that Jesus said this was because they were SAYING He had a demon. They were claiming the power of the Holy Spirit was actually the power of Satan. In this, they blatantly rejected the Messiah.

Born-again Christians cannot commit this sin for their salvation is proof that they are called of God and the salvation bought by the Son on His cross at Calvary has been applied to their life by the Holy Spirit.

The reason this sin cannot be committed is because it is a national sin of Israel, and because it would require Jesus to be on Earth performing miracles, so that someone can say, He is performing those miracles by the power of Satan. Since this cannot happen, it cannot be committed.

Jesus taught that from out of the mouth flow the issues of life and that life and death are in the power of the tongue. The more important thing that believers who have been born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise must understand about the "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is that it is impossible for them (born-again persons) to commit this sin.
It is NOT the sin of attributing something of God to evil, or something evil to God. This is what the sin of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is:

It was the sin of the leadership of Israel, and as such Israel as a nation, rejecting the Messiah by saying that Jesus performed His miracles, or more directly, cast out demons by the power of the lord/king of demons, thus saying that the Holy Spirit is in fact the devil. This faced God's judgment, and that judgment was 70AD, where all faced the judgment except for believers in the Messiah, who according to Josephus, had fled when they saw what Jesus said before them.

God sent His Spirit into the world for the purpose of applying to an elect person chosen from before the foundation (creation) of the world the salvation bought by the Son.
This is the Ministry of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL in the world today.
Thus, you have persons who are chosen by God to salvation at the appointed time in their lives. That is His Ministry as part of the Trinity of God who are directly involved in a person's salvation.

It was the Father's Plan.
The Son implemented that Plan.
And the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL applies that Plan to God's elect.

Promised to believers, any, in Ephesians 1. Again, God put the spiritual blessings of the Abrahamic covenant on all nations of the world. The physical promises belong SOLELY to Israel, while the spiritual blessings belong to all, Jew and non-Jewish Gentiles, who believe in Christ by faith. To Israel, their Messiah king, to the Gentiles, the Savior of a loving Father God. The non-Jewish Gentiles having presence before God as His saved people by His kindness, according to Paul, whereas Jews were KICKED OUT due to God's severity. However, God will not always be severe to Israel, and He will gather them back in once the times of the Gentiles has reached its end. Paul speaks of the fulness of the Gentiles coming in, in relation to the times of the Gentiles. The times of the Gentiles is blatantly speaking to non-Jewish Gentiles because it started with Nebuchadnezzar, who did not have an iota of Hebrew/Jewish blood in him, attacked Jerusalem for the first time. It will end with Jesus second coming to rescue Israel from the devices of the anti-christ. Those with the antichrist will be those non-Jewish Gentiles who refused Christ, and instead, worshiped the beast and his image. If you look at the original language for the worship of the beast and his image, the connotation of the greek is that they are so enthralled that they would choose to continue worshiping the beast and his image, the ones who caused their destruction, in hell if they could. Whole mind, heart, and strength devoted to the beast and his image.

And yet there are person's physically alive that inhabit the planet that God has NOT chosen to salvation. They are the unatoned and they will and have NEVER been atoned. They are born to die and to be separated from God eternally. The sin of Blasphemy of the HOLY Spirit is not a sin of the tongue (blasphemy) but the existence of an unatoned person in the world that is an OFFENSE to God's Holiness and His Presence sent into the world to save His elect people. Jesus taught that what comes out of the mouth (tongue) reveals the condition of the 'heart' or life of a person.

The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was a national sin of the tongue, that showed the heart of the nation of Israel. Again, being a national sin means that there are those individuals who can and did come to accept the Messiah, who escaped the punishment of the generation of those who blasphemed the Holy Spirit/rejected the Messiah. They were destroyed in AD 70, while Messianic believers fled and were saved from the physical judgment.

33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. Matthew 12:33.

ONLY GOD can make a tree. ONLY GOD can make a tree (person) good and his fruit good, or else He makes a tree (person) corrupt and his fruit corrupt. For out of the abundance the mouth speaketh. And it speaketh lies or it speaketh truth.

36 But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Matthew 12:36–37.

Verse thirty-seven tells us that the words that come out of our mouths reveals the condition of our 'heart.' And our 'hearts' reveal whether we are people that have been justified (declared "Not Guilty!") or have been condemned by God. And it is the Ministry of the Holy Spirit who applies the justification from God upon a person or His Presence and Holiness have condemned that person for he/she shall never be saved at any point of their lives.

Now, consider: While the Hebrew people have been given the covenant through Moses a part of that covenant included the Ceremonial Law in which sacrifices and offerings are commanded of the children of Israel and this Ceremonial Law instructed every year the sacrifice of an animal whose blood was to be sprinkled upon the children of Israel and upon the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant along with the book of the covenant. EVERY YEAR while the children of Israel partook in these sacrifices and offerings to God through which God had 'covered' the sins of the children of Israel and temporary atonement had been made by the high priest, this went on every year through the centuries. And while this took place every year within the society and culture of the children of Israel there were non-Hebrew Gentiles who were NEVER given God's Law nor had God made provision for them to have their sins covered as God had covered the sins of Israel. Every year non-Hebrew Gentiles were born, and they died without their sins 'covered' by God through the sacrificial system of worship God commanded under the Law by the high priest and the children of Israel. FULL STOP.

The Mosaic covenant is DEAD, FULL STOP. There is a new covenant, which has a priest of a non-Judaic, non-Hebrew, non-Jewish line. The line of Melchizedek. As such, the sacrifice of Christ covers the whole world, atoning/saving those whom God chose before the foundation of the world, both Jew and Gentile. However, once again, the physical promises/blessings of the Abrahamic covenant belong SOLELY to the Jews/Hebrews, while the spiritual (salvation) blessings of the Abrahamic covenant belongs to the Jews, and by faith, to the Gentiles. Again, Jewish believers in the Messiah, and Gentiles who believe in Jesus by faith. Jesus is only the King/Messiah of the Jews, but the Savior of the Gentiles who believe by faith.

Every day of every month of every year God dealt with the sins of the children of Israel and made provision - however temporary - for their atonement and for the forgiveness of their sins and this went on for centuries beginning in Egypt on their PASS-OVER and continued these practices in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle until the advent of the Son who would lay down His life so that finally and eternally the sins of God's covenant people would receive their final atonement through the blood of the lamb (of God) who took away the sins of God's people. For centuries non-Hebrew Gentiles were born, and they died without covenant and without covenant that commanded sacrifices and offerings that addressed the sins of the people at large. But at this time until the giving of the Holy Spirit of Promise to Israel non-Hebrew Gentiles were born and they died in their sins never to be atoned and never to be counted among God's elect people to whom salvation and redemption of their souls had been given. They were a people that were NEVER under God's Law and NEVER part of Israel's inheritance - including the advent of the Holy Spirit with whom the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah had been enacted by God on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest in which three thousand Jews were given a "new heart" and born-again by the Spirit promised to Israel. And while the children of Israel benefitted from God's Law, non-Hebrew Gentiles were born and died in their sins for centuries while the children of Israel offered sacrifices that allowed God's people to live an elect life in Him in their daily lives while non-covenant, uncircumcised, non-Hebrew Gentiles perished every day and every month and every year, and through countless centuries without a Savior and without the Spirit of God who was given to Israel and who would enter into the world and apply the salvation to the saints who have died under the Law and under covenant as well as saints alive at the time and saints yet to be born.
The Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is NOT a sin of the tongue but the existence of an unholy, unatoned people in the world alongside God's Holy Spirit whose Ministry is to apply the salvation bought by the Son and whose presence is an affront and offense against the Holy Spirit in the world today. Salvation is OF THE LORD, and it is He who determines the salvation of any man that is predestined to come into the world.

You really don't get it do you? Why do you hold your fist up to the sky and tell Jesus that He didn't say what He said? Stop changing what Jesus Himself said.

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matthew 12:31–32.

And the Messianic Jew I read says this world is prior to 70 AD, and the world to come is after 70 AD. In this case, the generation of those leaders who commited the sin, according to Jesus, NOT ACCORDING TO YOU, would not be forgiven in this world, or the world to come. This speaks to judgment. They would face judgment no matter what they did. They could fall on their face, the whole country, and repent, and the judgment would still come. AD 70. It was the same in the Old Testament. Israel repented of rejecting God when they first came to the promised land. It didn't matter. God forgave them (spiritually), however, they still faced the physical judgment, consequences, for their sin, which was 40 years in the wilderness, where ALL over the age of 20 died. IF they were "saved" (spiritually) then they went to paradise. If not, they went to hell. Not all Israel is saved, as Paul said, not all of Israel are of Israel. Only those who are of Israel BY FAITH.

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Matthew 15:10–11.

God is patient and God is longsuffering awaiting the last person to be born at the appointed time and born-again at the appointed time and when this last person named in the book of life of the lamb has been brought into the kingdom of God, then the end will come. Then God's wrath will come upon non-Hebrew Gentiles and God will destroy those with the breath of His mouth.

16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Matthew 15:15–20.

The things that come out of the mouth come out of the 'heart' and it is through their mouths by which blasphemies and adulteries, and evil thoughts, fornications, etc., do not offend the Son for He came to atone the 'hearts' of His covenant people, but they are atoned and are made a 'good tree' while those identified as a 'corrupt tree' do not and cannot be saved because they are not chosen to salvation by the Father except those for whom the Father has given to the Son so that He may die in their stead and whose precious blood (life) washes away their sins in the presence of a people never to be bought or to be given salvation that only the Holy Spirit of Promise can give in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:24.

They are "lost" by virtue of their being created and blown into the nostrils of the first Adam in whom his loins the family line of God and Christ will come.

You do not follow the Word of God and instead you follow rabbinical teaching that in this present moment does not mimic God's Word on the subject of 'demon-possessed' persons. There are no "demons" and there are no fallen angels who have changed themselves into demons for demons in the Bible are not fallen angels. On top of this Scripture says through Peter 'the angels that sinned are locked up.'

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

In every encounter Jesus makes personally with an individual the first thing He does is subdue their attitudes, their 'spirits' in order to get them to thinking right and according to Scripture. Sometimes He does it with a "loud voice" and sometimes He does it through whispers, but the main thing is that Jesus does this with a word. And it is a word that He shall utter on the last day in which the bodies of His elect shall rise from their graves, and in a moment, in the twinkling of an [His] eye, their souls and spirits are joined once again to their rising bodies - no matter their corruption - and God's people are restored to a trichotomy (three-part being.)

Jesus is the man. Christ is the Spirit. The blasphemy is of the tongue which is the 'heart' that reveals itself as either being justified or being condemned is what determines if a person is saved or is not saved. A man who is justified can never commit the blasphemy Jesus is teaching about. But a person condemned already...

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God John 3:18.

...is a person whose existence in the world is an offense to the HOLY Spirit as He applies the salvation bought by the Son to God's elect. THAT IS what Jesus teaches about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is NOT a sin of the tongue but of the 'heart' which the tongue expresses. This is why we are to test the spirits so that we may learn who we are talking to or interacting with. There are two things that prompt my prayers and they are someone who asks me to pray for them or keep them in prayer; and the other is when God impresses upon me a burden to pray for a person. God would never place a burden upon me to pray for someone if they are not elect and predestined to salvation. A brother or sister that is born-again asks me to support them in prayer I will do. But God has given us the knowledge as to who I am to call "brethren" and who I must not. The only reason why and if I call someone "brethren" is when I learn whether or not we have the same Father.

No, they were not. It is a sin of the 'heart' and true born-again persons cannot commit that sin for as justified persons they have been declared "Not Guilty!" but for those who will never be saved, these are the ones who are guilty of this sin. Those that are never to be saved are in the world along with the Holy Spirit and it is their presence in the world that is an offense to the Holy Spirit as He Ministers salvation to God's elect.

The salvation Jesus bought on His cross is a redemption that covers man's trichotomy of body, soul, and human spirit. Since the day Adam and the woman disobeyed God and their human spirit died within them communication with God changed. Without a human spirit man became a dichotomy of body and soul - no human spirit. Thus, a three-part man (body, soul, human spirit) will never be cast into "hell" or eternal separation from God because when they become born-again God creates a new human spirit in that person and the trinity of God is restored and His image is restored in that person. This is when God said, "Let us make man in our image" God was looking forward to the day in which Christ comes and in our salvation we are made to conform to the image of Christ. Having a human spirit allows us to process spiritual phenomenon and communicate with God who is Spirit.

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Ephesians 4:24.

This is what God was referring to when He said, "Let us make man in our image." Once we become born-again by the Spirit is when we fulfill the command God gave us to "be ye holy for I AM holy" attaches itself to our inner man. It was never meant to refer to Adam for First Corinthians 15 distinguishes between the earthy and the heavenly; between Adam and Christ, who is THAT Spirit. We are being conformed in our conversion into the image of Christ, NOT Adam. And Christ is the image of God.

With this in mind God can and has killed off His covenant people. They don't lose their salvation, but God does take them out of the picture through death. Take the 23,000 Hebrews who through Moses God killed off for that issue with the golden calf. God's Promises do not change. If one Hebrew is in covenant with God, then nothing can change their being inheritors of the Promises. God might kill them off, but His Promises still stand. Those He kills off die in covenant just as Abraham did, and Isaac did, and Jacob did, and David did. These are the Old Testament saints that went with Jesus into heaven - just as Judas is, too. Yeah, people have a problem with that one. No matter. Jesus promised the twelve a throne from which they will judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Jesus said it to the twelve disciples and a Promise is a Promise and God keeps all His Promises. A person to whom God has justified is a person with whom God will inhabit through His Spirit.

That's what I posit once before on this forum. If death is the penalty for sin and we die, then what sin is it that kills us? Have we or have we not been atoned and our sins past, present, and future? Have we been forgiven and our sins washed away? There will come a day in which I will die. Haven't all my sins been washed away and atoned? Yes, my sins have been atoned. So, what sin is it that wasn't atoned on the cross that I suffer the penalty of death for a sin that kills me? It is appointed unto man once to die. So, if and when I die there is a sin that is deemed of God to kill me. But I thought all my sins have been forgiven. You follow what I am saying?

IF Jesus did "it" for the whole world then the whole world will be saved and this is "Universalism" which is unbiblical. And no, it is not by OUR faith but Jesus' faith in covenant that saves me. As long as I am an heir to covenant promises then everything has been addressed by God because of covenant. But still faith is not a requirement for covenant. It never was. God made covenant with Abraham and with his biological seed. Non-Hebrew Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham. That is impossible. Two Hebrew parents cannot birth a non-Hebrew baby. Thus, non-Hebrew Gentiles are NOT heirs of the Abraham, Mosaic, or New Covenants. God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. If so then what is his name and what are the terms of that covenant?

God made covenant with Abraham and his biological seed. He asked for an heir and God gave him one: Isaac.
Isaac had Esau and Jacob and while Esau was blessed with faithful Abraham, he is not heir of the Promises. God tells us who is to inherit His Promises. And it is NOT non-Hebrew Gentiles who are heirs for they are nothing to the LORD. They are "less than nothing and vanity."

The children of Israel have been atoned. They can never commit the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Nor was the Romans used of God to punish the Israelites. Non-Hebrew Gentiles do not have a covenant with God and they never will. For centuries the Jews were sacrificing animals yearly for their sins while non-Hebrew Gentiles were born and died without salvation. Straight to "hell", do not Pass Go, do not collect $200. The Old Testament is a book telling the history and relationship between them and the God of Abraham.Thirty-nine "books" and each one is taught, instructed, commanded, and spoken to the children of Israel. It's their covenant. Why do some add to the Bible in saying non-Hebrew Gentiles are heirs of the Promises? Jesus died for the children of Israel and no Gentiles are included. God does not change. His Promises are eternal. His Promises were made and given to Abraham and when he died Isaac inherited his Promises, and when Isaac died Jacob inherited those Promises, and when Jacob died the inheritance passed to his twelve sons. And so on and on.

Salvation is within covenant. Once one is in covenant then relational particulars are established. One of those particulars is God asks for our trust and obedience. But neither of these if lacked or absent does not disqualify an inheritor from his inheritance. The covenant is what's important and the covenant comes with Promises of God to Abraham and his seed. In all my reading and study of the Old Testament and the New Covenant writings I find no covenant between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.

None.

You need to go back and study again. There is so much wrong above I couldn't read it all. Salvation is NOT within the covenant. It never was. The Law existed solely (as Paul says) to show the need for Jesus. They couldn't keep the Law, and as Paul said, if they put themselves under the Law, they would DIE under the Law. (Meaning, they are DAMNED.) Salvation is in Christ, not the Law. God made covenant with Abraham with a land promise. He promised a people, and Abraham DID NOT ASK FOR AN HEIR, God told Abraham He would have an heir. Abraham did not ask for an heir, He asked, how could he have an heir at his age? Much less Sarai. This is where Abraham learned to trust, and where his faith came into its own. After God showed that He would indeed fulfill His promsie to Abraham, Abraham never doubted again. Even when asked to sacrifice Isaac. He knew God would raise Isaac from the dead, because God specifically stated that Isaac is the one through whom Abraham's great nation would come. Abraham knew this because he didn't know God would stop him.

Jesus died for the WHOLE WORLD, however... limited atonement, or better stated particular redemption. Jesus only, technically, died for those God chose before the foundation of the world. It's simplistic to say that Jesus' death was sufficient for the whole entire world, but only efficient for those who believe in Him by faith. So Jesus death COULD save the whole world, but it WON'T, because that is not what God planned.

As for what you said about death, you die because of Adam. God's judgment for sin happens no matter what. While we are spiritually saved, and there is no condemnation, the physical (solely physical) consequences of Adam's sin remains. Hebrews talks about Jews neglecting so great a salvation. The Messianic Jew I read says this means they are saved, but refuse to mature, and are forgetting their salvation. They will face judgment, but be saved. They will forfeit their reward, face judgment most possibly resulting in PHYSICAL death, but they are still spiritually saved. It has to do with Jewish concepts. To the Jew, salvation does not always mean, as Gentiles say, spiritual salvation, but physical salvation. His take on the thorns and briars being burned up is that those thorns and briars are works, they are not the person, which is the field those thorns and briars grow in. It goes back to Paul's judgment of a believers works. Some will be gold, fine jewels, etc, others will be hay and stubble. While all their works may be burned up, they are saved though through fire.

The same with those who tasted of the heavenly gift. Those people are saved, however, they are in danger of losing their reward, and facing judgment which could very well be physical death. The author speaks of those who are immature and have not grown. He says they have been believers for so long that they should be teachers now, however, they have never left the baby stage, and are in fact forgetting everything. He wouldn't even talk about Melchizeked until a little later in the book of Hebrews because they wouldn't understand it because they don't know anything. He addresses that FIRST, and then mentions Melchizedek.

Salvation is for both Jews and non-Jewish Gentiles. It was to the Jew FIRST, and then to the non-Jewish Gentile when the Jews rejected the Messiah. When God is done dealing with the Gentiles who are elect to salvation, that is, when the fulness of the Gentiles has come in, then God will miraculously raise Israel from the dead, as Paul put it. What would Israel's salvation be, but life from the dead, is what he said. The final salvation of Israel, the 1/3rd that God doesn't cast into hell (Zechariah), will be glorious. (I remind myself that every day.) However, the road their is long, treacherous, and painful for everyone. Hence the call to endure to the end. Believers will. Those who never truly believed, and were not saved in the first place, will fall away.

You have to stop adding to scripture. When Paul speaks of Gentiles, he is speaking of non-Jewish gentiles. You should learn that when he tells Timothy (non-Hebrew Gentile) not to be circumcised, while telling Titus (mixed-race Hebrew) to be circumcised. A strict and specific division made, and I believe it is solely based on the Abrahamic covenant, and not the Mosaic or even new covenant. The physical promises of the Abrahamic covenant belongs to the Jews, and the Jews belong to the Abrahamic covenant by physical circumcision. The spiritaul blessings of the Abrahamic covenant, with the promise that highlights it, belongs to both the Jews, and the non-Jewish Gentiles by faith... the faith that Abraham showed. Abraham was not saved by the Mosaic covenant or the law, but by grace through the faith He had in God's faithfulness to fulfill His covenants, and to fulfill His promises. God promised salvation to the world through EVE, and further specified salvation and the engine of salvation (faith) through Abraham. The covenant, that is works, saved no one. Grace and faith were always the engine of salvation.

As for judgment, even Moses faced God's judgment. Again, it was physical. God denied Moses entry into the promised land, because Moses disobeyed God. God never allowed Moses into the promised land. The only thing God allowed was to look at the promised land from Mount Horeb. However, we know Moses was saved, because He showed up at the transfiguration speaking with Jesus. His judgment from God was solely physical. The consequences for having sinned. He did not face spiritual judgment because God forgave him. However, the physical judgment remained.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That is not what Jesus said. That is not even close to what Jesus said. Scripture is clear that the whole reason that Jesus said this was because they were SAYING He had a demon. They were claiming the power of the Holy Spirit was actually the power of Satan. In this, they blatantly rejected the Messiah.

Jews didn't deal with "demons" the way "demons" are believed today. There were no demons in the Old Testament. Why is that? "Demons" today come out of medieval times when superstition and ignorance ruled the day. Jews knew that "demon s" were nothing, especially that they were not fallen angels. So, where does all these things come from if not found in the Old Testament? I mean, if there are no such "demons" in the Old Testament then where does all that come from? And don't tell me that they were hidden or inactive until Jesus arrived, because surely Moses would have given Jews something to go by as warning but there is NOTHING by Moses to the Hebrew people. Nothing in his final goodbye before ascending the mountain one last time.

The reason this sin cannot be committed is because it is a national sin of Israel, and because it would require Jesus to be on Earth performing miracles, so that someone can say, He is performing those miracles by the power of Satan. Since this cannot happen, it cannot be committed.

Typical Constantinian Gentile theology. I used to read that stuff in theology books. I also used to believe that too. But I decided to trust Scripture instead of men's theologies. And that's the failing of theology today. It's a common error for one group of people to study the history and culture of another society. Non-Hebrews trying to interpret the culture and history and religion and all the nuances of the Hebrew people and publish it on National Geographic. You can't use Gentile mindset to interpret Hebrew society. And that's what goes on. Imagine that. The Old Testament saying the Word of God is eternal and men today saying it is not eternal because Jesus is no longer on earth. But He is on earth. The Spirit of Christ is alive and well on planet earth but not in your theology.

It was the sin of the leadership of Israel, and as such Israel as a nation, rejecting the Messiah by saying that Jesus performed His miracles, or more directly, cast out demons by the power of the lord/king of demons, thus saying that the Holy Spirit is in fact the devil. This faced God's judgment, and that judgment was 70AD, where all faced the judgment except for believers in the Messiah, who according to Josephus, had fled when they saw what Jesus said before them.

Many times, throughout Israel's history they went after other (false) gods. Why wasn't this called "blasphemy of the Spirit of God" in the Old Testament? Where is that located?
And the whole reason for Jesus was the atonement and forgiveness of Israel's sins. According to the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah it says God forgave Israel their sin and remember them NO MORE. God must have a bad short memory for you to say what happened to Israel in AD 70 was God's judgment upon them for their sin of "rejecting Jesus as Messiah." I know for a fact every prayer of Jesus was fulfilled by God even the one in which He says from the cross, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." And that's exactly what the New Covenant says, too. So, my sins are forgiven and yet there is much judgment I can expect in my life after becoming saved and my sins forgiven, right? Then why all these fingers pointing by Christians that unsaved people can escape etrnal flames if they give their lives to Christ today? Sounds like a sham to me.

Promised to believers, any, in Ephesians 1. Again, God put the spiritual blessings of the Abrahamic covenant on all nations of the world.

Where does it say that in the Old Testament?

The physical promises belong SOLELY to Israel, while the spiritual blessings belong to all, Jew and non-Jewish Gentiles, who believe in Christ by faith. To Israel, their Messiah king, to the Gentiles, the Savior of a loving Father God. The non-Jewish Gentiles having presence before God as His saved people by His kindness, according to Paul, whereas Jews were KICKED OUT due to God's severity. However, God will not always be severe to Israel, and He will gather them back in once the times of the Gentiles has reached its end. Paul speaks of the fulness of the Gentiles coming in, in relation to the times of the Gentiles. The times of the Gentiles is blatantly speaking to non-Jewish Gentiles because it started with Nebuchadnezzar, who did not have an iota of Hebrew/Jewish blood in him, attacked Jerusalem for the first time. It will end with Jesus second coming to rescue Israel from the devices of the anti-christ. Those with the antichrist will be those non-Jewish Gentiles who refused Christ, and instead, worshiped the beast and his image. If you look at the original language for the worship of the beast and his image, the connotation of the greek is that they are so enthralled that they would choose to continue worshiping the beast and his image, the ones who caused their destruction, in hell if they could. Whole mind, heart, and strength devoted to the beast and his image.

Typical Gentile theology. Show me where it says to Israel in the Old Testament that God is going to share or give the Abrahamic promises to a people not his seed?

The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was a national sin of the tongue, that showed the heart of the nation of Israel. Again, being a national sin means that there are those individuals who can and did come to accept the Messiah, who escaped the punishment of the generation of those who blasphemed the Holy Spirit/rejected the Messiah. They were destroyed in AD 70, while Messianic believers fled and were saved from the physical judgment.

You speak with forked tongue yourself. First you tell me it's a sin of the tongue and not the heart and now you're saying it is a sin of the heart that "showed the heart of the nation." Blind, blind, blind.

The Mosaic covenant is DEAD, FULL STOP. There is a new covenant, which has a priest of a non-Judaic, non-Hebrew, non-Jewish line. The line of Melchizedek. As such, the sacrifice of Christ covers the whole world, atoning/saving those whom God chose before the foundation of the world, both Jew and Gentile. However, once again, the physical promises/blessings of the Abrahamic covenant belong SOLELY to the Jews/Hebrews, while the spiritual (salvation) blessings of the Abrahamic covenant belongs to the Jews, and by faith, to the Gentiles. Again, Jewish believers in the Messiah, and Gentiles who believe in Jesus by faith. Jesus is only the King/Messiah of the Jews, but the Savior of the Gentiles who believe by faith.

Men say the Words of God are dead (what are we in 1966?) but God says His Word is eternal.
I choose to believe God. My soul depends on it.

You really don't get it do you? Why do you hold your fist up to the sky and tell Jesus that He didn't say what He said? Stop changing what Jesus Himself said.

I don't hold my fist to the sky. Nor do I change what Jesus said. I posted the Scripture. Why do YOU reject Scripture for your man-made theology?

And the Messianic Jew I read says this world is prior to 70 AD, and the world to come is after 70 AD. In this case, the generation of those leaders who commited the sin, according to Jesus, NOT ACCORDING TO YOU, would not be forgiven in this world, or the world to come. This speaks to judgment. They would face judgment no matter what they did. They could fall on their face, the whole country, and repent, and the judgment would still come. AD 70. It was the same in the Old Testament. Israel repented of rejecting God when they first came to the promised land. It didn't matter. God forgave them (spiritually), however, they still faced the physical judgment, consequences, for their sin, which was 40 years in the wilderness, where ALL over the age of 20 died. IF they were "saved" (spiritually) then they went to paradise. If not, they went to hell. Not all Israel is saved, as Paul said, not all of Israel are of Israel. Only those who are of Israel BY FAITH.

Then start telling unbelievers that when God forgives their sins and they become Christian that they can STILL expect judgment for their sins. Either sin is atoned or it is not. Either wrath has been propitiated or it has not. But to say the opposites out the corners of your mouth is not honesty. It is lies.

You need to go back and study again. There is so much wrong above I couldn't read it all. Salvation is NOT within the covenant. It never was. The Law existed solely (as Paul says) to show the need for Jesus. They couldn't keep the Law, and as Paul said, if they put themselves under the Law, they would DIE under the Law. (Meaning, they are DAMNED.) Salvation is in Christ, not the Law. God made covenant with Abraham with a land promise. He promised a people, and Abraham DID NOT ASK FOR AN HEIR, God told Abraham He would have an heir. Abraham did not ask for an heir, He asked, how could he have an heir at his age? Much less Sarai. This is where Abraham learned to trust, and where his faith came into its own. After God showed that He would indeed fulfill His promsie to Abraham, Abraham never doubted again. Even when asked to sacrifice Isaac. He knew God would raise Isaac from the dead, because God specifically stated that Isaac is the one through whom Abraham's great nation would come. Abraham knew this because he didn't know God would stop him.

Jesus died for the WHOLE WORLD, however... limited atonement, or better stated particular redemption. Jesus only, technically, died for those God chose before the foundation of the world. It's simplistic to say that Jesus' death was sufficient for the whole entire world, but only efficient for those who believe in Him by faith. So Jesus death COULD save the whole world, but it WON'T, because that is not what God planned.

As for what you said about death, you die because of Adam. God's judgment for sin happens no matter what. While we are spiritually saved, and there is no condemnation, the physical (solely physical) consequences of Adam's sin remains. Hebrews talks about Jews neglecting so great a salvation. The Messianic Jew I read says this means they are saved, but refuse to mature, and are forgetting their salvation. They will face judgment, but be saved. They will forfeit their reward, face judgment most possibly resulting in PHYSICAL death, but they are still spiritually saved. It has to do with Jewish concepts. To the Jew, salvation does not always mean, as Gentiles say, spiritual salvation, but physical salvation. His take on the thorns and briars being burned up is that those thorns and briars are works, they are not the person, which is the field those thorns and briars grow in. It goes back to Paul's judgment of a believers works. Some will be gold, fine jewels, etc, others will be hay and stubble. While all their works may be burned up, they are saved though through fire.

The same with those who tasted of the heavenly gift. Those people are saved, however, they are in danger of losing their reward, and facing judgment which could very well be physical death. The author speaks of those who are immature and have not grown. He says they have been believers for so long that they should be teachers now, however, they have never left the baby stage, and are in fact forgetting everything. He wouldn't even talk about Melchizeked until a little later in the book of Hebrews because they wouldn't understand it because they don't know anything. He addresses that FIRST, and then mentions Melchizedek.

Salvation is for both Jews and non-Jewish Gentiles. It was to the Jew FIRST, and then to the non-Jewish Gentile when the Jews rejected the Messiah. When God is done dealing with the Gentiles who are elect to salvation, that is, when the fulness of the Gentiles has come in, then God will miraculously raise Israel from the dead, as Paul put it. What would Israel's salvation be, but life from the dead, is what he said. The final salvation of Israel, the 1/3rd that God doesn't cast into hell (Zechariah), will be glorious. (I remind myself that every day.) However, the road their is long, treacherous, and painful for everyone. Hence the call to endure to the end. Believers will. Those who never truly believed, and were not saved in the first place, will fall away.

You have to stop adding to scripture. When Paul speaks of Gentiles, he is speaking of non-Jewish gentiles. You should learn that when he tells Timothy (non-Hebrew Gentile) not to be circumcised, while telling Titus (mixed-race Hebrew) to be circumcised. A strict and specific division made, and I believe it is solely based on the Abrahamic covenant, and not the Mosaic or even new covenant. The physical promises of the Abrahamic covenant belongs to the Jews, and the Jews belong to the Abrahamic covenant by physical circumcision. The spiritaul blessings of the Abrahamic covenant, with the promise that highlights it, belongs to both the Jews, and the non-Jewish Gentiles by faith... the faith that Abraham showed. Abraham was not saved by the Mosaic covenant or the law, but by grace through the faith He had in God's faithfulness to fulfill His covenants, and to fulfill His promises. God promised salvation to the world through EVE, and further specified salvation and the engine of salvation (faith) through Abraham. The covenant, that is works, saved no one. Grace and faith were always the engine of salvation.

As for judgment, even Moses faced God's judgment. Again, it was physical. God denied Moses entry into the promised land, because Moses disobeyed God. God never allowed Moses into the promised land. The only thing God allowed was to look at the promised land from Mount Horeb. However, we know Moses was saved, because He showed up at the transfiguration speaking with Jesus. His judgment from God was solely physical. The consequences for having sinned. He did not face spiritual judgment because God forgave him. However, the physical judgment remained.

The Word of God is eternal. For men to say it is not, that it is dead is lies, lies, lies, and damn lies.

 

[armylngst]

Jews didn't deal with "demons" the way "demons" are believed today. There were no demons in the Old Testament. Why is that? "Demons" today come out of medieval times when superstition and ignorance ruled the day. Jews knew that "demon s" were nothing, especially that they were not fallen angels. So, where does all these things come from if not found in the Old Testament? I mean, if there are no such "demons" in the Old Testament then where does all that come from? And don't tell me that they were hidden or inactive until Jesus arrived, because surely Moses would have given Jews something to go by as warning but there is NOTHING by Moses to the Hebrew people. Nothing in his final goodbye before ascending the mountain one last time.

Demons did not come out of midieval times. Our understanding is tainted by that, but there were demons. You are so lit up by the law, why don't you look it up in their laws. It is their. They talk about what demons are, and how to cast them out. They are fallen angels. However, the better understanding is that as angels are God's messengers, demons are Satan's messengers. That is what the word means. Messenger, though in a different way than angels, as the word used in the Greek speaks to messengers of Zeus and such. (Who even Paul tells the people that they know those "gods" are actually demons.)

Typical Constantinian Gentile theology. I used to read that stuff in theology books. I also used to believe that too. But I decided to trust Scripture instead of men's theologies.

You don't even properly understand scripture. (I don't fully understand it either, which is why I am studying again.) You take a word that scholars say specifically means one thing, and you say it means something completely different, that is completely alien to the actual language.

And that's the failing of theology today. It's a common error for one group of people to study the history and culture of another society. Non-Hebrews trying to interpret the culture and history and religion and all the nuances of the Hebrew people and publish it on National Geographic. You can't use Gentile mindset to interpret Hebrew society. And that's what goes on. Imagine that. The Old Testament saying the Word of God is eternal and men today saying it is not eternal because Jesus is no longer on earth. But He is on earth. The Spirit of Christ is alive and well on planet earth but not in your theology.

BTW, for what I have been writing recently, comes from the doctoral writings of a Messianic Jew. He COMPLETELY disagrees with you, and uses the actual original language to show that. He also uses Jewish thought to interpret, not Gentile. His view is actually further then I would go, but that is just because there are some other passages that come into question.

Many times, throughout Israel's history they went after other (false) gods. Why wasn't this called "blasphemy of the Spirit of God" in the Old Testament? Where is that located?

Because none of that was Jesus before them performing miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit, and the religious leaders saying, BAH, that is the power of Satan himself. Can you see the difference? Jesus was before them, blatantly performing miracles that the religious leaders themselves said could only be accomplished by the Messiah, and they said it was a demon instead. (In case you still believe that Jews didn't see demons differently then you.) It was to the point that later in His ministry the people were saying things like, isn't that the guy with a demon? Why? The miracels He did, and the power involved. They were saying that Jesus' power in miracles was demonic/satanic. How can you even consider trying to say that Israel being into idolatry is the same thing?

And the whole reason for Jesus was the atonement and forgiveness of Israel's sins. According to the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah it says God forgave Israel their sin and remember them NO MORE. God must have a bad short memory for you to say what happened to Israel in AD 70 was God's judgment upon them for their sin of "rejecting Jesus as Messiah." I know for a fact every prayer of Jesus was fulfilled by God even the one in which He says from the cross, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." And that's exactly what the New Covenant says, too. So, my sins are forgiven and yet there is much judgment I can expect in my life after becoming saved and my sins forgiven, right? Then why all these fingers pointing by Christians that unsaved people can escape etrnal flames if they give their lives to Christ today? Sounds like a sham to me.

Actually Jeremiah speaks future. WILL forgive. AD 70 was God's judgment for their sin of rejecting Jesus as Messiah. Go back to Daniel 9. What was the trespass that would end at the end of the 70 sets of seven? What trespass was it? First, it speaks of heinous sin, secondly, it is SINGULAR. So it is one specific heinous sin that would end at the end of the 70 sets of seven. That is... Israel's rejection of the Messiah. Sins would be sealed up. Those are daily sins. So there will no longer be daily sins commited, as they are sealed up. Reconciliation, which the Messianic Jew I am reading says speaks to the sin nature, so the sin nature is sealed up. There is a lot that you need to reconsider.

You do face judgment. Physical/temporal judgment. Now if you don't believe you do, then you must believe God hates you. For scripture says that God chastens/disciplines those He loves. So if He isn't doing that for you, then He must hate you. Such chastisement/judgment could include death. (Physical). Ananias and Sapphira, sentenced to death by Paul, sentence carried out by heaven. Paul transferring someone to Satan himself for the destruction of the body, that the soul might be saved. It is all over scripture. Your sins are forgiven, though the consequences of your sin, you may pay for in this life. Consider God's judgment on Israel due to Manasseh. Manasseh repented. He became a believer in God. God refused to remove judgment from Israel for Manasseh's action. Josiah basically removed all the taint of Manasseh's actions from Israel. God REFUSED to remove judgment from Israel for Manasseh's action. Manasseh stood forgiven before God. It did not stop God from temporally judging Israel and Israel facing the consequences. You have to understand the difference between the physical and spiritual, because of how Jewish though works. Salvation does not always speak to spiritual salvation in Jewish thought, but to physical salvation. So while one may be saved spiritually, one may face judgment physically, which does not affect the condition of the soul. You may commit a sin, and God may judge you for it. That sin, forgiven, does not remove the physical consequence. God does and will chastise you. That is a fact.

Where does it say that in the Old Testament?

Typical Gentile theology. Show me where it says to Israel in the Old Testament that God is going to share or give the Abrahamic promises to a people not his seed?

Wow. Considering you decided to tell God He said differently, He said that all the nations of the world (and an Messianic Jew was very clear to say that it means the whole world in Jewish thought), would be blessed in Christ. The spiritual blessings of this promise, which is to the Gentiles as well as Israel, is SALVATION. No land promise, no special place before God that Israel had... it is simply, Salvation. That is why Paul said that God shared the gospel with Abraham in that promise. (See Galatians.) Obviously, if you are going to keep giving words your own meaning, based solely on your beliefs, then you are going to end up with a false teaching. Peter was the apostle to the circumcision, that is the Jews, while Paul (who used Paul because it is the GENTILE rendition of His name), was the apostle to the non-circumcision, which, when used in scripture means non-Hebrew Gentile. Those who are not of the covenant. The salvation is through faith in Christ. That is what scripture says. I understand you believe God LIED to Eve when He made the promise of salvation for the world, and that it would be through her seed, but... news flash, God did not lie.

Israel has a special place before God, with physical promises, as well as spiritual promises/blessings. The Gentiles... they get the spiritual blessings that fall from the table of the Jews. (This is why you absolutley MUST understand what Jesus was telling that non-Jewish CANAANITE woman.) Jesus came for the world, but He came to His people as Messiah, to save them. However, His sacrifice saves any who believe. And, it is specific in its outline. That is why Paul gave the church Galatians. It spoke to their need, but it speaks to all. God's word endures until tomorrow. Not a day after that, right? No, His word endures forever. There is eternal truth in His words.

You speak with forked tongue yourself. First you tell me it's a sin of the tongue and not the heart and now you're saying it is a sin of the heart that "showed the heart of the nation." Blind, blind, blind.

It was a national sin. The religious leaders being the head of the nation, and the people projecting what the religious leaders said. As His ministry went on, the people were asking things like, isn't that the guy with a demon? This is why YOU absolutely MUST LEARN HOW THE JEWISH PEOPLE THOUGHT. You don't even know yourself. I am learning from a Jew how they think. Once you understand, then you will.. understand what it all means. To see the gospels through the eyes of a Jew who is himself studying, is eye opening. You are far off the mark. This was a sin that could only be commited at that time, because it required/requires Jesus physical presence. It required the witnessing of the miracle He performed, which, according to rabbinical law, could only be accomplished by the Messiah, and then, for the religious leaders to say that the miracle was performed by the power of Satan (Beezelbub). The rejection of the Messiah in explicit terms. It is a sin of the heart, because those words, their reaction and action, were of the heart. If you understood how Jews think, you would know why a Jew says it was a national sin. You can see it reverberating through the nation as one continues through Jesus ministry where again, they were saying Jesus was the guy with a demon. Why? Because they heard it from the religious leaders, and the peopel ALWAYS follow the religious leaders.

Men say the Words of God are dead (what are we in 1966?) but God says His Word is eternal.
I choose to believe God. My soul depends on it.

God's words aren't dead, which is why I wonder why you believe they are. Belief is shown by actions, and I have read what you have said. You DENY what God said to Eve. You forget that Abraham was NEVER under the Mosaic covenant, which would mean he cannot be saved, because you say salvation is in the Mosaic covenant. God said it was in Abraham's... FAITH, and that this is how ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD, (which I believe was said to be another Jewish idiom with specific meaning) would be blessed. Salvation. It is, again, the little puppy dogs eating the crumbs that fall from the table. Why you don't seem capable of understanding what the Bible is saying with that little parable, is beyond me.

The church has NOT replaced Israel. Gentiles have NOT replaced Israel. Israel still has the Abrahamic covenant of the land promise and all that is connected to that, which has NOT been anulled and has not expired. It will happen, and it will happen when the times of the Gentiles comes to an end. And that will be when Jesus returns to rescue Israel. Then, they will possess all the land that God promised, and Jesus Himself will reign over the whole world through/from Jerusalem/Israel. It is an age-enduring Kingdom, and if we take God at His word, without trying to redefine anything, will be one thousand years. At the end, Satan will be released, and those who do not believe in God by faith, who are still living on Earth, will follow Satan to their destruction.

The church will be with Jesus, so they are not the people inhabiting the Earth. Those are people who survive God's final judgment of Earth, who are still alive. They will repopulate the Earth during the millennial kingdom. They will come up to Israel (how ever that will happen) to participate in the feasts at God's command. If they do not, they will face punishment from God. Those born of these people do not know God/Jesus like their parents do. So they can be and are deceived by Satan after the one thousand years, and follow him to their destruction.

I don't hold my fist to the sky. Nor do I change what Jesus said. I posted the Scripture.
Why do YOU reject Scripture for your man-made theology?

You post PRETEXT. You ignore CONTEXT. You change what Jesus said because He spoke of demons, and you say they don't exist. He even explained that they are spirits. They leave the person (in this case, not cast out) pass through the dark places (abyss?), and then sometimes return and find the person with a straightened out house, and they go get other spirits more evil then they are, and the final state of the person is worse than the first. And Jesus Himself cast out demons, and spoke of casting out demons. He did so in non-Hebrew Gentile lands. (You will not find any Jew raising... PIGS. Does not happen.) Also, those demons were saying who Jesus is, and asking if He was there to judge them "before the time". So they knew they faced judgment, and were asking if Jesus was going to judge them early. So they knew final judgment was coming.

Then start telling unbelievers that when God forgives their sins and they become Christian that they can STILL expect judgment for their sins. Either sin is atoned or it is not. Either wrath has been propitiated or it has not. But to say the opposites out the corners of your mouth is not honesty. It is lies.

This is what you get when you don't know the Bible. If God does not chastise you when you sin, which can include an end of your physical life, which does not change your eternal destiny, then, according to scripture, God hates you. You have been given scriptural examples of this happening. Ananias and Sapphira. Paul sentenced them to death, but they were believers. Why? The sin they comitted in lying to the Holy Spirit. To Paul, that required immediate judgment and sentence to serve as a lesson to the church. He also turned a believer over to Satan, in Corinthians, that his body might be destroyed, and his soul SAVED. You don't seem to understand what these things mean. Again, even though Israel repented of their sin before God, and God forgave them (He said so), they still faced God's judgment for what they did. I believe they are called.. CONSEQUENCES. If you lie to your boss, and ask for forgiveness, you will probably still be fired. Even if/though they forgive you. Why? CONSEQUENCES.

When God said He visits the sins upon the sons/daughters to the fourth generation, He was speaking of CONSEQUENCES. Sin changes a person, and can/does affect their descendants.

The Word of God is eternal. For men to say it is not, that it is dead is lies, lies, lies, and damn lies.

So please, stop saying the Word of God is not eternal.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Demons did not come out of midieval times. Our understanding is tainted by that, but there were demons. You are so lit up by the law, why don't you look it up in their laws. It is their. They talk about what demons are, and how to cast them out. They are fallen angels. However, the better understanding is that as angels are God's messengers, demons are Satan's messengers. That is what the word means. Messenger, though in a different way than angels, as the word used in the Greek speaks to messengers of Zeus and such. (Who even Paul tells the people that they know those "gods" are actually demons.)

There is nothing in the Old Testament of the Hebrew people dealing with "demons" the way Gentiles today believe them to be. In the Old Testament there are "goat-demons", but they are not beings but false gods. They are not fallen angels either.
In actuality the NT "demons" are the evil spirits of men, their attitudes.

You don't even properly understand scripture. (I don't fully understand it either, which is why I am studying again.) You take a word that scholars say specifically means one thing, and you say it means something completely different, that is completely alien to the actual language.

BTW, for what I have been writing recently, comes from the doctoral writings of a Messianic Jew. He COMPLETELY disagrees with you, and uses the actual original language to show that. He also uses Jewish thought to interpret, not Gentile. His view is actually further then I would go, but that is just because there are some other passages that come into question.

I don't care what a Messianic Jew thinks of my positions. I am being Biblical in my positions. The thing is you have been so ingrained and ingratiated into Gentile theology that you've departed from Biblical Christianity.

Because none of that was Jesus before them performing miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit, and the religious leaders saying, BAH, that is the power of Satan himself. Can you see the difference? Jesus was before them, blatantly performing miracles that the religious leaders themselves said could only be accomplished by the Messiah, and they said it was a demon instead. (In case you still believe that Jews didn't see demons differently then you.) It was to the point that later in His ministry the people were saying things like, isn't that the guy with a demon? Why? The miracels He did, and the power involved. They were saying that Jesus' power in miracles was demonic/satanic. How can you even consider trying to say that Israel being into idolatry is the same thing?

In the Old Testament God is recorded performing miracles. Where are the Jews saying they are being performed by the power of Satan? As far as Peter is concerned, he says the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

Believe the Scripture.

Actually Jeremiah speaks future. WILL forgive. AD 70 was God's judgment for their sin of rejecting Jesus as Messiah. Go back to Daniel 9. What was the trespass that would end at the end of the 70 sets of seven? What trespass was it? First, it speaks of heinous sin, secondly, it is SINGULAR. So it is one specific heinous sin that would end at the end of the 70 sets of seven. That is... Israel's rejection of the Messiah. Sins would be sealed up. Those are daily sins. So there will no longer be daily sins commited, as they are sealed up. Reconciliation, which the Messianic Jew I am reading says speaks to the sin nature, so the sin nature is sealed up. There is a lot that you need to reconsider.

On the day Jesus Christ died He actually saved someone, and that someone was the Hebrew people of Israel. He didn't make salvation possible if only someone would LATER believe for that teaches that Jesus died and didn't save anyone because it isn't effective until LATER. That's not what Jesus did on the day He died. Now, the Holy Spirit is in the world applying the salvation bought by the Son on His cross at Calvary.

You do face judgment. Physical/temporal judgment. Now if you don't believe you do, then you must believe God hates you. For scripture says that God chastens/disciplines those He loves. So if He isn't doing that for you, then He must hate you. Such chastisement/judgment could include death. (Physical). Ananias and Sapphira, sentenced to death by Paul, sentence carried out by heaven. Paul transferring someone to Satan himself for the destruction of the body, that the soul might be saved. It is all over scripture. Your sins are forgiven, though the consequences of your sin, you may pay for in this life. Consider God's judgment on Israel due to Manasseh. Manasseh repented. He became a believer in God. God refused to remove judgment from Israel for Manasseh's action. Josiah basically removed all the taint of Manasseh's actions from Israel. God REFUSED to remove judgment from Israel for Manasseh's action. Manasseh stood forgiven before God. It did not stop God from temporally judging Israel and Israel facing the consequences. You have to understand the difference between the physical and spiritual, because of how Jewish though works. Salvation does not always speak to spiritual salvation in Jewish thought, but to physical salvation. So while one may be saved spiritually, one may face judgment physically, which does not affect the condition of the soul. You may commit a sin, and God may judge you for it. That sin, forgiven, does not remove the physical consequence. God does and will chastise you. That is a fact.

Peter said the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. Why don't you believe Him?

Wow. Considering you decided to tell God He said differently, He said that all the nations of the world (and an Messianic Jew was very clear to say that it means the whole world in Jewish thought), would be blessed in Christ. The spiritual blessings of this promise, which is to the Gentiles as well as Israel, is SALVATION. No land promise, no special place before God that Israel had... it is simply, Salvation. That is why Paul said that God shared the gospel with Abraham in that promise. (See Galatians.) Obviously, if you are going to keep giving words your own meaning, based solely on your beliefs, then you are going to end up with a false teaching. Peter was the apostle to the circumcision, that is the Jews, while Paul (who used Paul because it is the GENTILE rendition of His name), was the apostle to the non-circumcision, which, when used in scripture means non-Hebrew Gentile. Those who are not of the covenant. The salvation is through faith in Christ. That is what scripture says. I understand you believe God LIED to Eve when He made the promise of salvation for the world, and that it would be through her seed, but... news flash, God did not lie.

Israel has a special place before God, with physical promises, as well as spiritual promises/blessings. The Gentiles... they get the spiritual blessings that fall from the table of the Jews. (This is why you absolutley MUST understand what Jesus was telling that non-Jewish CANAANITE woman.) Jesus came for the world, but He came to His people as Messiah, to save them. However, His sacrifice saves any who believe. And, it is specific in its outline. That is why Paul gave the church Galatians. It spoke to their need, but it speaks to all. God's word endures until tomorrow. Not a day after that, right? No, His word endures forever. There is eternal truth in His words.

It was a national sin. The religious leaders being the head of the nation, and the people projecting what the religious leaders said. As His ministry went on, the people were asking things like, isn't that the guy with a demon? This is why YOU absolutely MUST LEARN HOW THE JEWISH PEOPLE THOUGHT. You don't even know yourself. I am learning from a Jew how they think. Once you understand, then you will.. understand what it all means. To see the gospels through the eyes of a Jew who is himself studying, is eye opening. You are far off the mark. This was a sin that could only be commited at that time, because it required/requires Jesus physical presence. It required the witnessing of the miracle He performed, which, according to rabbinical law, could only be accomplished by the Messiah, and then, for the religious leaders to say that the miracle was performed by the power of Satan (Beezelbub). The rejection of the Messiah in explicit terms. It is a sin of the heart, because those words, their reaction and action, were of the heart. If you understood how Jews think, you would know why a Jew says it was a national sin. You can see it reverberating through the nation as one continues through Jesus ministry where again, they were saying Jesus was the guy with a demon. Why? Because they heard it from the religious leaders, and the peopel ALWAYS follow the religious leaders.

God's words aren't dead, which is why I wonder why you believe they are. Belief is shown by actions, and I have read what you have said. You DENY what God said to Eve. You forget that Abraham was NEVER under the Mosaic covenant, which would mean he cannot be saved, because you say salvation is in the Mosaic covenant. God said it was in Abraham's... FAITH, and that this is how ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD, (which I believe was said to be another Jewish idiom with specific meaning) would be blessed. Salvation. It is, again, the little puppy dogs eating the crumbs that fall from the table. Why you don't seem capable of understanding what the Bible is saying with that little parable, is beyond me.

The church has NOT replaced Israel. Gentiles have NOT replaced Israel. Israel still has the Abrahamic covenant of the land promise and all that is connected to that, which has NOT been anulled and has not expired. It will happen, and it will happen when the times of the Gentiles comes to an end. And that will be when Jesus returns to rescue Israel. Then, they will possess all the land that God promised, and Jesus Himself will reign over the whole world through/from Jerusalem/Israel. It is an age-enduring Kingdom, and if we take God at His word, without trying to redefine anything, will be one thousand years. At the end, Satan will be released, and those who do not believe in God by faith, who are still living on Earth, will follow Satan to their destruction.

The church will be with Jesus, so they are not the people inhabiting the Earth. Those are people who survive God's final judgment of Earth, who are still alive. They will repopulate the Earth during the millennial kingdom. They will come up to Israel (how ever that will happen) to participate in the feasts at God's command. If they do not, they will face punishment from God. Those born of these people do not know God/Jesus like their parents do. So they can be and are deceived by Satan after the one thousand years, and follow him to their destruction.

You post PRETEXT. You ignore CONTEXT. You change what Jesus said because He spoke of demons, and you say they don't exist. He even explained that they are spirits. They leave the person (in this case, not cast out) pass through the dark places (abyss?), and then sometimes return and find the person with a straightened out house, and they go get other spirits more evil then they are, and the final state of the person is worse than the first. And Jesus Himself cast out demons, and spoke of casting out demons. He did so in non-Hebrew Gentile lands. (You will not find any Jew raising... PIGS. Does not happen.) Also, those demons were saying who Jesus is, and asking if He was there to judge them "before the time". So they knew they faced judgment, and were asking if Jesus was going to judge them early. So they knew final judgment was coming.

This is what you get when you don't know the Bible. If God does not chastise you when you sin, which can include an end of your physical life, which does not change your eternal destiny, then, according to scripture, God hates you. You have been given scriptural examples of this happening. Ananias and Sapphira. Paul sentenced them to death, but they were believers. Why? The sin they comitted in lying to the Holy Spirit. To Paul, that required immediate judgment and sentence to serve as a lesson to the church. He also turned a believer over to Satan, in Corinthians, that his body might be destroyed, and his soul SAVED. You don't seem to understand what these things mean. Again, even though Israel repented of their sin before God, and God forgave them (He said so), they still faced God's judgment for what they did. I believe they are called.. CONSEQUENCES. If you lie to your boss, and ask for forgiveness, you will probably still be fired. Even if/though they forgive you. Why? CONSEQUENCES.

When God said He visits the sins upon the sons/daughters to the fourth generation, He was speaking of CONSEQUENCES. Sin changes a person, and can/does affect their descendants.

So please, stop saying the Word of God is not eternal.

The Bride and the Church Jesus promised to build is populated by Jews. It began on Pentecost when three thousand Jews and mixed-race Jews were born again. Every day after that Christ added thousands of Jews to His Church daily such as should be saved. God promises NOTHING to Gentiles. Any Gentiles alive after the Lord returns will live in areas OUTSIDE the Promised Land and guess what? They attack Israel one last time and fire from heaven consumes them ALL.
Rev. 20:7-9.

 

[armylngst]

There is nothing in the Old Testament of the Hebrew people dealing with "demons" the way Gentiles today believe them to be. In the Old Testament there are "goat-demons", but they are not beings but false gods. They are not fallen angels either.
In actuality the NT "demons" are the evil spirits of men, their attitudes.

Didn't Paul say that we know that these wooden idols are actually demons?
"18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? 20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils. 22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?"

So, we are not to have fellowship with ourselves? Can't drink water because since devils are us, to drink water is to drink the cup of devils/ourselves, right? Can't eat dinner at our table, because that would be the table of devils/ourselves, right? How in the world would that provoke the Lord to jealousy? I thought that was worshiping idols or other "gods". Also, I'm sure the word for gentiles here is the same word Paul uses every time he mentions gentiles. So, since you say that they are actually Jews (half Jews) doesn't that mean that idolatry was alive and well in the Jewish community? (I mean, we KNOW it wasn't, since scripture is quite clear on that.) So, how do you defend your interpretation of the word? If you say context, then that means your belief/interpretation. Not the actual context, but what you expect/want the context to say.

I don't care what a Messianic Jew thinks of my positions. I am being Biblical in my positions. The thing is you have been so ingrained and ingratiated into Gentile theology that you've departed from Biblical Christianity.

You are right, you don't care what any Jews think of your position, most of all, Jesus.

In the Old Testament God is recorded performing miracles. Where are the Jews saying they are being performed by the power of Satan? As far as Peter is concerned, he says the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment.

Do you really want to get in a discussion about the Nephilim?

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

Are you sure you want to go there?

Believe the Scripture.

Those are angels, the demons are also translated as devils, and Paul speaks of them directly, so we know they exist. And they are chained up.

On the day Jesus Christ died He actually saved someone, and that someone was the Hebrew people of Israel. He didn't make salvation possible if only someone would LATER believe for that teaches that Jesus died and didn't save anyone because it isn't effective until LATER. That's not what Jesus did on the day He died. Now, the Holy Spirit is in the world applying the salvation bought by the Son on His cross at Calvary.

Have you read Ephesians 1? What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit according to Ephesians 1? One huge run on sentence, but to keep context:
"3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

I emphasized the first part because it is basically saying that God did all that... because He felt like it. Also note the inheritance spoken about is in Christ. (So not the Abrahamic covenant.) First trusted in Christ speaks of the disciples. They were the first who trust. The people he is writing to also trusted after they heard the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation. After they believed, they received the Holy Spirit and were sealed by the Holy Spirit, which is given as the down payment of the inheritance until one takes possession of it. So the Holy Spirit is NOT applying the salvation bought by the Son on the cross. It is still a requirement that one must hear, and one must believe, Jews also. If not, one is unsaved and damned. Paul said that God had ordained that through the foolishness of preaching comes salvation.

Peter said the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. Why don't you believe Him?

Oh I do... I do... You know who those angels are right? They are the one's who went out to the daughters of men and got busy, giving us the Nephilim. Now, these Nephilim were hybrids, and not fully human, therefore they were, by definition, irredeemable. They are no longer... men. They are Nephilim. Hybrids. Angels who went after strange flesh, just as the men in Sodom, who, after being struck blind, were still trying to get at the door so they could rape the angels. (Not sure if you were actually taught that in Sunday school... usually that reserved for later in life.) Strange flesh. When going down this trail, the purpose of the flood was to remove the corruption brought about by these angels that sinned. If God had not done that, then eventually the whole world would have been nephilim, and Jesus wouldn't matter.

The Bride and the Church Jesus promised to build is populated by Jews. It began on Pentecost when three thousand Jews and mixed-race Jews were born again. Every day after that Christ added thousands of Jews to His Church daily such as should be saved. God promises NOTHING to Gentiles. Any Gentiles alive after the Lord returns will live in areas OUTSIDE the Promised Land and guess what? They attack Israel one last time and fire from heaven consumes them ALL.
Rev. 20:7-9.

The church is both Jew and Gentile. You read the vile sins associated with those in the church, right? Paul gave a list. He said that some of those in the church had formerly been those sinners who would not inherit the kingdom. (I don't remember the exact wording off the top of my head.) He thanked God that they were FORMERLY that, because that meant they were now believers in Christ. Both Jews and Gentiles in the church. The Jews, to whom the gospel came first, and the Gentiles, who ate the crumbs that fell off the table (so to speak). I just can't get why you don't understand what that means. That is why Paul says that the gospel is FIRST to the Jew, then the Gentile/Greek. Almost like it is an after thought. Meant to humble the Gentile/Greek, and perhaps to anger the Jews.

Consider this passage from Revelation 20:
"7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The camp of the saints could be the church (Gentiles in this case), but we know exactly what the beloved city is. In the world are the offspring of those who survived the tribulation. They are all believers, because we all know what happens to those who aren't. All that's left in the end are those who believe/follow Jesus, and those who follow the beast, that is worship the beast and his image, and have his mark. They all die in Jesus' second coming, so only believers who are saved remain. They will live and repopulate the world. Their offspring do not know Jesus/God like their ancestors do. (Those saved in the horrors of the tribulation. That knowledge of God runs DEEP for them.) They will be deceived by Satan, and when they surround the camp of the saints (it's only a camp), and Jerusalem, God does something about it.

The distinction between Israel (nation of/remnant [even in that there is a distinction]) and the church, remains until Revelation 21/22. The reconciliation of all humanity (that believes) is complete.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

At that time, believing humanity stands as one. No more distinction. (Well... sort of.) The only distinction is whatever comes out of the rewards phase. The judgment that you face on Earth as a believer manifests itself as loss of reward in heaven. Paul speaks of it with the judgment of works. Your works come out as gold and fine jewels, or as chaff and stubble. The chaff and stubble is burnt up, but the person is saved "though through fire". No reward for them. They just escape with their life. I have heard some say that there will be varying levels of living, all depending on one's reward. Are you on the outside of the city, or in a penthouse at the center? (That kind of thought.) I don't know what to agree with, other then Paul said what he said. What I wrote was what someone else had to say about it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Didn't Paul say that we know that these wooden idols are actually demons?
"18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? 20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils. 22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?"

So, we are not to have fellowship with ourselves? Can't drink water because since devils are us, to drink water is to drink the cup of devils/ourselves, right? Can't eat dinner at our table, because that would be the table of devils/ourselves, right? How in the world would that provoke the Lord to jealousy? I thought that was worshiping idols or other "gods". Also, I'm sure the word for gentiles here is the same word Paul uses every time he mentions gentiles. So, since you say that they are actually Jews (half Jews) doesn't that mean that idolatry was alive and well in the Jewish community? (I mean, we KNOW it wasn't, since scripture is quite clear on that.) So, how do you defend your interpretation of the word? If you say context, then that means your belief/interpretation. Not the actual context, but what you expect/want the context to say.

You are right, you don't care what any Jews think of your position, most of all, Jesus.

Do you really want to get in a discussion about the Nephilim?

Are you sure you want to go there?

Those are angels, the demons are also translated as devils, and Paul speaks of them directly, so we know they exist. And they are chained up.

Have you read Ephesians 1? What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit according to Ephesians 1? One huge run on sentence, but to keep context:
"3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

I emphasized the first part because it is basically saying that God did all that... because He felt like it. Also note the inheritance spoken about is in Christ. (So not the Abrahamic covenant.) First trusted in Christ speaks of the disciples. They were the first who trust. The people he is writing to also trusted after they heard the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation. After they believed, they received the Holy Spirit and were sealed by the Holy Spirit, which is given as the down payment of the inheritance until one takes possession of it. So the Holy Spirit is NOT applying the salvation bought by the Son on the cross. It is still a requirement that one must hear, and one must believe, Jews also. If not, one is unsaved and damned. Paul said that God had ordained that through the foolishness of preaching comes salvation.

Oh I do... I do... You know who those angels are right? They are the one's who went out to the daughters of men and got busy, giving us the Nephilim. Now, these Nephilim were hybrids, and not fully human, therefore they were, by definition, irredeemable. They are no longer... men. They are Nephilim. Hybrids. Angels who went after strange flesh, just as the men in Sodom, who, after being struck blind, were still trying to get at the door so they could rape the angels. (Not sure if you were actually taught that in Sunday school... usually that reserved for later in life.) Strange flesh. When going down this trail, the purpose of the flood was to remove the corruption brought about by these angels that sinned. If God had not done that, then eventually the whole world would have been nephilim, and Jesus wouldn't matter.

The church is both Jew and Gentile. You read the vile sins associated with those in the church, right? Paul gave a list. He said that some of those in the church had formerly been those sinners who would not inherit the kingdom. (I don't remember the exact wording off the top of my head.) He thanked God that they were FORMERLY that, because that meant they were now believers in Christ. Both Jews and Gentiles in the church. The Jews, to whom the gospel came first, and the Gentiles, who ate the crumbs that fell off the table (so to speak). I just can't get why you don't understand what that means. That is why Paul says that the gospel is FIRST to the Jew, then the Gentile/Greek. Almost like it is an after thought. Meant to humble the Gentile/Greek, and perhaps to anger the Jews.

Consider this passage from Revelation 20:
"7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The camp of the saints could be the church (Gentiles in this case), but we know exactly what the beloved city is. In the world are the offspring of those who survived the tribulation. They are all believers, because we all know what happens to those who aren't. All that's left in the end are those who believe/follow Jesus, and those who follow the beast, that is worship the beast and his image, and have his mark. They all die in Jesus' second coming, so only believers who are saved remain. They will live and repopulate the world. Their offspring do not know Jesus/God like their ancestors do. (Those saved in the horrors of the tribulation. That knowledge of God runs DEEP for them.) They will be deceived by Satan, and when they surround the camp of the saints (it's only a camp), and Jerusalem, God does something about it.

The distinction between Israel (nation of/remnant [even in that there is a distinction]) and the church, remains until Revelation 21/22. The reconciliation of all humanity (that believes) is complete.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

At that time, believing humanity stands as one. No more distinction. (Well... sort of.) The only distinction is whatever comes out of the rewards phase. The judgment that you face on Earth as a believer manifests itself as loss of reward in heaven. Paul speaks of it with the judgment of works. Your works come out as gold and fine jewels, or as chaff and stubble. The chaff and stubble is burnt up, but the person is saved "though through fire". No reward for them. They just escape with their life. I have heard some say that there will be varying levels of living, all depending on one's reward. Are you on the outside of the city, or in a penthouse at the center? (That kind of thought.) I don't know what to agree with, other then Paul said what he said. What I wrote was what someone else had to say about it.

Incredible.

 

[jeremiah1five]

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

According to Peter Jesus said the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment.

There are no fallen angels loose on the planet. It's just between God and man. That's all.