Isaiah 53:10 and the LXX

[EclipseEventSigns]

If there were an Aramaic original, it's probably either lost or undiscovered.

The one we have will show signs of a later style and inaccuracies indicating translation.

Most of the arguments you use for the Aramaic would apply equally to Hebrew, since they are sister languages.

Yes, they would. Hebrew and Aramaic are very similar. And that also include Arabic. When you add in the history of how populations modified language and adopted related ones, the story of the transmission of the biblical texts becomes much more clear.

Not sure what you are referring to by "inaccuracies". There really are no major ones that I'm aware of. I'd truly be interested if you knew of any. The Peshitta is considered to be the "Queen" of the texts specifically because it illuminates problem areas of the Greek text.

And to bring it full circle. A previous post of mine included my translation of what the Aramaic Peshitta Old Testament says of Isaiah 53:10. The Aramaic matches the Hebrew. Again, they are very closely related languages. And the texts match.

 

[Diserner]

Good video to show the similarties between Hebrew and Aramaic:

Hebrew vs. Aramaic

 

[praise_yeshua]

The NT quotes of the OT are a hybrid mix of MT, LXX, both and neither.

There really isn't any comparison. I've asked this question for many years. Name 5 verses that are distinctly from the MT in the NT. Just 5. I go through any you list and prove they are not. There are only a handful that can legitimately be seen as being exclusively from the MT. The verses that usually listed are often represented multiple times in the OT and distinct from one another.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, they would. Hebrew and Aramaic are very similar. And that also include Arabic. When you add in the history of how populations modified language and adopted related ones, the story of the transmission of the biblical texts becomes much more clear.

Not sure what you are referring to by "inaccuracies". There really are no major ones that I'm aware of. I'd truly be interested if you knew of any. The Peshitta is considered to be the "Queen" of the texts specifically because it illuminates problem areas of the Greek text.

And to bring it full circle. A previous post of mine included my translation of what the Aramaic Peshitta Old Testament says of Isaiah 53:10. The Aramaic matches the Hebrew. Again, they are very closely related languages. And the texts match.

You didn't deal with all of the evidence and you didn't make a distinct connection. I've given you references that you refuse to address. You have only looked for information that you believe establishes your position. That is all you have done.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It's better that those just reading can see the information or maybe find it in later searches.

Some posters just tend to be a bit more tetchy than others, best to just ignore it.

If you're going to reference me, then do me the courtesy of referencing me by my name here.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, they would. Hebrew and Aramaic are very similar. And that also include Arabic. When you add in the history of how populations modified language and adopted related ones, the story of the transmission of the biblical texts becomes much more clear.

Not sure what you are referring to by "inaccuracies". There really are no major ones that I'm aware of. I'd truly be interested if you knew of any. The Peshitta is considered to be the "Queen" of the texts specifically because it illuminates problem areas of the Greek text.

And to bring it full circle. A previous post of mine included my translation of what the Aramaic Peshitta Old Testament says of Isaiah 53:10. The Aramaic matches the Hebrew. Again, they are very closely related languages. And the texts match.

I'll give you the challenge I gave @dizerner

Give me 5 verses in the NT that can only come from the MT. Just 5. We will go through them word by word. Go for it.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

I'll give you the challenge I gave @dizerner

Give me 5 verses in the NT that can only come from the MT. Just 5. We will go through them word by word. Go for it.

Ignore on. You've admitted that you don't even bother to investigate what people post. Why would anyone spend even one minute addressing anything that you have to say when you show such blatant disrespect for them? Answer that first.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If there were an Aramaic original, it's probably either lost or undiscovered.

The one we have will show signs of a later style and inaccuracies indicating translation.

Most of the arguments you use for the Aramaic would apply equally to Hebrew, since they are cousin languages.

So how close are you to your cousin? Does that person live with you and speak for you? "Cousins" are not close enough. The producers of the Aramaic OT were not Jews....

and by all means. Define the Peshitta. The person you're dealing with here doesn't even know there is no standard for the Peshitta. It is nothing more than a blank term for variant manuscripts without a central source.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Ignore on. You've admitted that you don't even bother to investigate what people post. Why would anyone spend even one minute addressing anything that you have to say when you show such blatant disrespect for them? Answer that first.

Why do I need your words to understand the subject. I don't. I was dealing with the subject long before you came along. Challenges don't require respect.

Prove your claim against someone that knows the subject. You avoid debate because you can't defend your position.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Good video to show the similarties between Hebrew and Aramaic:

Hebrew vs. Aramaic

Just how do you know? Explain the process by which you determined the validity of the information?

 

[Diserner]

If you're going to reference me, then do me the courtesy of referencing me by my name here.

I'm under no contractual obligation to mention anyone by name, in fact it's against the rules.

 

[Diserner]

Just how do you know? Explain the process by which you determined the validity of the information?

Not until you justify logic itself and your sensory perceptions.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm under no contractual obligation to mention anyone by name, in fact it's against the rules.

I asked for it...... and the forum has the ability to do @.... and the name.

You're not being accurate with what your saying.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not until you justify logic itself and your sensory perceptions.

Logic itself?....

You're simply claiming a superior understanding of logic. Prove it.

 

[Diserner]

There really isn't any comparison. I've asked this question for many years. Name 5 verses that are distinctly from the MT in the NT. Just 5. I go through any you list and prove they are not. There are only a handful that can legitimately be seen as being exclusively from the MT. The verses that usually listed are often represented multiple times in the OT and distinct from one another.

If you are interested, check out Old Testament Quotations in the New Testament by Gleason L. Archer and Gregory Chirichigno.

It's pretty comprehensive, I have it in PDF.

 

[Diserner]

Logic itself?....

You're simply claiming a superior understanding of logic. Prove it.

I mean, if you are serious, I would just say it's by a form of induction with cross checking.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Example of external support for the claims being made for Aramaic Primacy.

History of Peshitta

History of the Peshitta The Peshitta is the official Bible of the Church of the East. The name Peshitta in Aramaic means “Straight”, in other words, the original and pure New Testament…

syriacorthodoxarchdiocese.wordpress.com

The Peshitta is the official Bible of the Church of the East. The name Peshitta in Aramaic means “Straight”, in other words, the original and pure New Testament. The Peshitta is the only authentic and pure text which contains the books in the New Testament that were written in Aramaic, the Language of Mshikha (the Messiah) and His Disciples.

In reference to the originality of the Peshitta, the words of His Holiness Mar Eshai Shimun, Catholicos Patriarch of the Church of the East, are summarized as follows:

“With reference to….the originality of the Peshitta text, as the Patriarch and Head of the Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church of the East, we wish to state, that the Church of the East received the scriptures from the hands of the blessed Apostles themselves in the Aramaic original, the language spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and that the Peshitta is the text of the Church of the East which has come down from the Biblical times without any change or revision.”

1. First.... let us look at the first line.

Notice the claim of "The Church of the East". Well, there are so many things wrong in this first sentence. The Assyrian Church is not Orthodox.

it is "Nestorian".

So you have a diversion from one of the basic doctrines of Christianity relative to the Incarnation. Byzantine tradition favors the Greek Orthodox church.

2. The second sentence. "Peshitta" means "Straight" in Aramaic....

Well is that true? There is a serious issue with the claims of George Lamsa. He has confused a late Aramaic product with the Aramaic language at the time of Christ and the apostles. Mistakes like this produce such differences.

What is the Peshitta? | GotQuestions.org

What is the Peshitta? What is Peshitta Primacy? Was the New Testament originally written in Aramaic?

www.gotquestions.org

That should be enough to question what you're being told in this thread by @EclipseEventSigns

 

[praise_yeshua]

If you are interested, check out Old Testament Quotations in the New Testament by Gleason L. Archer and Gregory Chirichigno.

It's pretty comprehensive, I have it in PDF.

Take their position. There are far too many efforts/writings such as this to deal with them all.

Quote them. I have no desire to read their writings on a subject I know from the sources.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I mean, if you are serious, I would just say it's by a form of induction with cross checking.

So you actually cross checked what you watched in his video?

 

[Diserner]

So you actually cross checked what you watched in his video?

It's not the first video I've watched on Hebrew and Aramaic, friend...