Is There Any Evidence that the New Testament was Originally Written in Greek?

EclipseEventSigns

Well-known member
What evidence is there that the New Testament text was originally written in the Greek language?

That probably seems like a ridiculous question. Of course it was written originally in Greek. Everyone knows that. OK. But exactly HOW do we know that?

When I went to seminary, my expert professors stated this as fact - as a given - and then quickly moved on to talk about textual criticism and how to compare the thousands of existing Greek manuscripts. They appealed to Church tradition where we are all taught that the Greek manuscripts reflect the original words of the authors.

Now, one could bring up the evidence of P52 - a snippet of the Gospel of John. Experts consider it from around 150 AD. But this scrap has no date recorded on it. There's actually nothing "saying" how old it is. It is purely the conjecture of experts. But everyone agrees it is not from the first century. There is actually no discovered New Testament manuscript from the first century.

Then, one could bring up the historical evidence of which languages were spoken in the area of the middle east. To be charitable, there are many opinions and it is disputed which was the main language of the Jewish homeland and throughout the diaspora. Some insist it was Greek because that was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire. Others insist it was Aramaic as that was the lingua franca of the Parthian empire to the east and had been for the Jews for centuries since the time of the Babylonian captivity and earlier. But no one considers Latin even though that was the official language of the Romans. So there is no incontrovertible proof here either.

Whatever evidence is proposed, it must also take into account the statements by the historian Josephus. In several places in his works he states that the Greek language was a problem for the Jewish population. The religious leaders actively discouraged anyone to learn Greek. Josephus himself had problems learning Greek and even pronouncing the language. Josephus had to function as a translator between the Romans and the Jewish leaders of Jerusalem during the siege of 70 AD because no one knew Greek in the city. These and other statements need to be taken into account.

So we need to go back to first principles. What exactly is the evidence for this, one of the most basic assumptions of where the New Testament text came from? For all we know, a bunch of aliens in Antarctica wrote the New Testament in the first century in their own language. Then in 149 AD, they translated it into Greek and P52 came into existence. How would you prove that (ridiculous and obviously incorrect) statement wrong?
 
What evidence is there that the New Testament text was originally written in the Greek language?

That probably seems like a ridiculous question. Of course it was written originally in Greek. Everyone knows that. OK. But exactly HOW do we know that?

When I went to seminary, my expert professors stated this as fact - as a given - and then quickly moved on to talk about textual criticism and how to compare the thousands of existing Greek manuscripts. They appealed to Church tradition where we are all taught that the Greek manuscripts reflect the original words of the authors.

Now, one could bring up the evidence of P52 - a snippet of the Gospel of John. Experts consider it from around 150 AD. But this scrap has no date recorded on it. There's actually nothing "saying" how old it is. It is purely the conjecture of experts. But everyone agrees it is not from the first century. There is actually no discovered New Testament manuscript from the first century.

Then, one could bring up the historical evidence of which languages were spoken in the area of the middle east. To be charitable, there are many opinions and it is disputed which was the main language of the Jewish homeland and throughout the diaspora. Some insist it was Greek because that was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire. Others insist it was Aramaic as that was the lingua franca of the Parthian empire to the east and had been for the Jews for centuries since the time of the Babylonian captivity and earlier. But no one considers Latin even though that was the official language of the Romans. So there is no incontrovertible proof here either.

Whatever evidence is proposed, it must also take into account the statements by the historian Josephus. In several places in his works he states that the Greek language was a problem for the Jewish population. The religious leaders actively discouraged anyone to learn Greek. Josephus himself had problems learning Greek and even pronouncing the language. Josephus had to function as a translator between the Romans and the Jewish leaders of Jerusalem during the siege of 70 AD because no one knew Greek in the city. These and other statements need to be taken into account.

So we need to go back to first principles. What exactly is the evidence for this, one of the most basic assumptions of where the New Testament text came from? For all we know, a bunch of aliens in Antarctica wrote the New Testament in the first century in their own language. Then in 149 AD, they translated it into Greek and P52 came into existence. How would you prove that (ridiculous and obviously incorrect) statement wrong?

You keep repeating this same claim. How long have you been following George Lamsa?

Josephus wrote in Greek!
 
The arguments we'd have to make one way or the other are necessarily indirect deductions.

And then it's just the weight a person puts on each one.

I don't think, with a manuscript this important, and those who originally wrote and copied it would surely know that, that there would be no extant copies in Aramaic, as it would be sure to be proliferated.

Another point to be made, is that if the Greek were uniformly translated from Aramaic as supposed, there would be no motivation or reason to leave certain words untranslated, and then offer a translation.
 
There is a key piece of information missing in everything @EclipseEventSigns says....

Have you ever heard of the "Old Syriac"?

They are very early manuscripts in Aramaic that were later revised into what some classify as the Peshitta. They are significant difference from these manuscripts and what they claim is the sole Aramaic source in the "Peshitta".

They are proof that the "Peshitta" can not possibly represent the first NT manuscripts.
 
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The arguments we'd have to make one way or the other are necessarily indirect deductions.

And then it's just the weight a person puts on each one.

I don't think, with a manuscript this important, and those who originally wrote and copied it would surely know that, that there would be no extant copies in Aramaic, as it would be sure to be proliferated.
What does that mean? "no extant copies in Aramaic"? Are you suggesting there are no Aramaic manuscripts?

If it's "necessarily indirect deductions" then why do the "experts" assume Greek was the original language? Maybe it was Swahili? Maybe it was Slavic? Maybe it was even Aramaic?
 
What evidence is there that the New Testament text was originally written in the Greek language?

That probably seems like a ridiculous question. Of course it was written originally in Greek. Everyone knows that. OK. But exactly HOW do we know that?

When I went to seminary, my expert professors stated this as fact - as a given - and then quickly moved on to talk about textual criticism and how to compare the thousands of existing Greek manuscripts. They appealed to Church tradition where we are all taught that the Greek manuscripts reflect the original words of the authors.

Now, one could bring up the evidence of P52 - a snippet of the Gospel of John. Experts consider it from around 150 AD. But this scrap has no date recorded on it. There's actually nothing "saying" how old it is. It is purely the conjecture of experts. But everyone agrees it is not from the first century. There is actually no discovered New Testament manuscript from the first century.

Then, one could bring up the historical evidence of which languages were spoken in the area of the middle east. To be charitable, there are many opinions and it is disputed which was the main language of the Jewish homeland and throughout the diaspora. Some insist it was Greek because that was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire. Others insist it was Aramaic as that was the lingua franca of the Parthian empire to the east and had been for the Jews for centuries since the time of the Babylonian captivity and earlier. But no one considers Latin even though that was the official language of the Romans. So there is no incontrovertible proof here either.

Whatever evidence is proposed, it must also take into account the statements by the historian Josephus. In several places in his works he states that the Greek language was a problem for the Jewish population. The religious leaders actively discouraged anyone to learn Greek. Josephus himself had problems learning Greek and even pronouncing the language. Josephus had to function as a translator between the Romans and the Jewish leaders of Jerusalem during the siege of 70 AD because no one knew Greek in the city. These and other statements need to be taken into account.

So we need to go back to first principles. What exactly is the evidence for this, one of the most basic assumptions of where the New Testament text came from? For all we know, a bunch of aliens in Antarctica wrote the New Testament in the first century in their own language. Then in 149 AD, they translated it into Greek and P52 came into existence. How would you prove that (ridiculous and obviously incorrect) statement wrong?
The Greek NT is supported by the usage of the Greek OT (LXX) that proved vital in the spread of the Gospel throughout the Roman Empire by Greek-speaking Jewish Diaspora who converted to Christianity.
 
What does that mean? "no extant copies in Aramaic"? Are you suggesting there are no Aramaic manuscripts?

If it's "necessarily indirect deductions" then why do the "experts" assume Greek was the original language? Maybe it was Swahili? Maybe it was Slavic? Maybe it was even Aramaic?
Greek was the common language throughout the Eastern Roman Empire at that time. It was vital that the Apostles' words would be communicated directly in the language of the people instead of through second and third translations.
 
Greek was the common language throughout the Eastern Roman Empire at that time. It was vital that the Apostles' words would be communicated directly in the language of the people instead of through second and third translations.
The historical fact that Greek was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire explains the existence and transmission of the Greek text through the areas under Roman dominion. But that is not actual proof that the New Testament was originally written in Greek. The historical fact that Aramaic was the lingua franca of the Parthian Empire and throughout the majority of Mesopotamia explains the existence and transmission of Aramaic text through those areas. It also explains that the Aramaic text was brought east into India and then as far as China in those early centuries.

So again the question remains, what evidence is there for the dogmatic stance that the text was originally written in Greek?
 
The historical fact that Greek was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire explains the existence and transmission of the Greek text through the areas under Roman dominion. But that is not actual proof that the New Testament was originally written in Greek. The historical fact that Aramaic was the lingua franca of the Parthian Empire and throughout the majority of Mesopotamia explains the existence and transmission of Aramaic text through those areas. It also explains that the Aramaic text was brought east into India and then as far as China in those early centuries.

So again the question remains, what evidence is there for the dogmatic stance that the text was originally written in Greek?

Old Syriac/Vetus Syra? Diatessaron?.....

Don't pretend that you're using an early manuscript. You're not. Not even close.
 
The historical fact that Greek was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire explains the existence and transmission of the Greek text through the areas under Roman dominion. But that is not actual proof that the New Testament was originally written in Greek. The historical fact that Aramaic was the lingua franca of the Parthian Empire and throughout the majority of Mesopotamia explains the existence and transmission of Aramaic text through those areas. It also explains that the Aramaic text was brought east into India and then as far as China in those early centuries.

So again the question remains, what evidence is there for the dogmatic stance that the text was originally written in Greek?

Where are all the manuscripts from this spread you claim took place? If this actually happened, then we would even need to appeal to the DSS.

You are overstating the impact of early Hebrew or Aramaic manuscripts.
 
Where are all the manuscripts from this spread you claim took place? If this actually happened, then we would even need to appeal to the DSS.

You are overstating the impact of early Hebrew or Aramaic manuscripts.
Again such display of ignorance of history. Do some actual research before commenting. The point of this thread is EVIDENCE for a Greek original. Not going to get bogged down by your attempts to sidetrack. And why would I spend the time and effort to post links when you've clearly stated that you are not interested in looking at them and would simply dismiss any facts that don't agree with your opinions anyway? You've shot yourself in the foot long ago from being taken seriously.
 
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The historical fact that Greek was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire explains the existence and transmission of the Greek text through the areas under Roman dominion. But that is not actual proof that the New Testament was originally written in Greek. The historical fact that Aramaic was the lingua franca of the Parthian Empire and throughout the majority of Mesopotamia explains the existence and transmission of Aramaic text through those areas. It also explains that the Aramaic text was brought east into India and then as far as China in those early centuries.
The post-Parthian and Mesopotamian regions are currently bleeping Islamic establishments. There are excellent reasons why God directed Paul westward into Greek-speaking zones and not eastward.
So again the question remains, what evidence is there for the dogmatic stance that the text was originally written in Greek?
God's Election. Greek-speaking Jewish Diaspora were elected to support the Gospel upon their conversion, based on their usage of the Greek OT. And Paul's election towards the Greek speaking West.
 
The post-Parthian and Mesopotamian regions are currently bleeping Islamic establishments. There are excellent reasons why God directed Paul westward into Greek-speaking zones and not eastward.

God's Election. Greek-speaking Jewish Diaspora were elected to support the Gospel upon their conversion, based on their usage of the Greek OT. And Paul's election towards the Greek speaking West.

Who knows. [Edit..Ad hominem comments.]
 
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The post-Parthian and Mesopotamian regions are currently bleeping Islamic establishments. There are excellent reasons why God directed Paul westward into Greek-speaking zones and not eastward.

God's Election. Greek-speaking Jewish Diaspora were elected to support the Gospel upon their conversion, based on their usage of the Greek OT. And Paul's election towards the Greek speaking West.
"currently"? Those statements are supposition. Not evidence. Where is the evidence for Greek originals?
Also, you mention Paul and his mission. Yet there were 70 other disciples who had the specific missionary call directly from the Messiah himself. Where did the rest take the Gospel?
 
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"currently"? Those statements are supposition. Not evidence. Where is the evidence for Greek originals?
Also, you mention Paul and his mission. Yet there were 70 other disciples who had the specific missionary call directly from the Messiah himself. Where did the rest take the Gospel?

So you're actually appealing to ambiguity as an answer.

Which of the 70 went where to establish your claim? The onus is upon you to establish this.

We know the pedigree of the Greek text by where it was successful. It is really is simple. Where the Gospel flourished, we find Greek manuscripts for the NT. Those that loved the NT.... MADE COPIES....

Those that didn't. Let them die.
 
As I suspected. No one can provide direct evidence that the New Testament text was originally written in Greek. Or this would have been provided very quickly and the purpose of the thread would have been met. That this has not and can not be done should show the very weak position for people who continually claim Greek primacy.
 
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As I suspected. No one can provide direct evidence that the New Testament text was originally written in Greek. Or this would have been provided very quickly and the purpose of the thread would have been met. That this has not and can not be done should show the very weak position for people who continually claim Greek primacy.

Define what you will accept as evidence?
 
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