Is the word all ever used in a restricted sense ?

[atpollard]

In Calvinism, the term "all" is often used in a limited sense, particularly in the context of the five points of Calvinism. The TULIP acronym represents the five key doctrines of Calvinism: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints.

Each of these points is supported by specific scripture references, and the use of the term "all" in these doctrines is often interpreted in a way that emphasizes the exclusivity of the elect and the universality of God's grace. Calvinists argue that the "all" in these doctrines does not imply that all people are saved, but rather that God's grace is extended to all who are elect.

This interpretation is often contrasted with Arminian interpretations, which may see the "all" as a broader application of God's grace to all humanity.

So you might ask "have Calvinists lost all their marbles?" And the answer would be "yes, but only in a restricted way".

So when “all men” are drawn to Jesus in John 12:32 (And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.), how exactly were the people living in the Western Hemisphere in the 1200’s (Pre-Columbus) “DRAWN” to Jesus Christ whom they had never heard of? (Since “all” means “all”.)

Romans 10:14 [NLT] But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them?

 

[metamorphosis]

Does 'All' Really Mean 'All'?

 

[Clifford]

Calvinists believe that all people are conceived in sin and are born children of wrath, unfit for any saving good, inclined to evil, dead in their sins, and slaves to sin; without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God, to reform their distorted nature, or even to dispose themselves to such reform.

The error in their view is that people do not become children of wrath due to their sinful acts, but they enter the world as children of wrath.

Also, sinners are unable to return to God apart from the regenerating work of the Spirit. In other words, sinners must be saved to return to God.

And if you are not a Calvinists you are out of luck

From The Canons of Dort

 

[atpollard]

Does 'All' Really Mean 'All'?

I take that to mean that you cannot answer my question.

 

[atpollard]

Calvinists believe that all people are conceived in sin

Psalms 51:5 [NASB] Behold, I was brought forth in guilt, And in sin my mother conceived me.

• Just like the Bible says.

and are born children of wrath,

Ephesians 2:3 [NASB] Among them we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest.

• Just like the Bible teaches everyone is.

unfit for any saving good,

Romans 3:11-12 [NASB] THERE IS NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NO ONE WHO SEEKS OUT GOD; THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME CORRUPT; THERE IS NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

• Just like the Bible says.

inclined to evil,

Romans 1:21 [NASB] For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened.

• Like this?

dead in their sins,

Ephesians 2:1 [NASB] And you were dead in your offenses and sins,

• Just like the Bible says.

and slaves to sin;

John 8:34 [NASB] Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.

• Like Jesus said.

without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God,

1 Corinthians 2:14 [NASB] But a natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

• Just as the Bible teaches.

to reform their distorted nature,

Philippians 2:13 [NASB] for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for [His] good pleasure.

• As the Bible teaches only God does (or can).

or even to dispose themselves to such reform.

Matthew 19:26 [NASB] And looking at [them,] Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

• As Jesus taught it MUST be.

Strange, is it not, how all these “crazy” Calvinist ideas first appeared in the Bible.

 

[brightfame52]

I have no idea. Scripture appears silent on that point.

No its not silent since scripture states clearly the efficacious results of His death alone as Per Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[elect believers] were enemies[unregenerate], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The elect were efficaciously reconciled to God, while enemies, by His death for them. So what about the non elect ? Are they too efficaciously reconciled to God while enemies[unregenerate] by His death ? If not why not ? It cant be because they are in unbelief, because the elect are reconciled while unbelief, so explain that please. Scripture testimony is loud and clear

 

[brightfame52]

Just provide the SCRIPTURE that teaches what you claim rather than needing to build it on the logic of what is NOT written if you want to convince a “Sola Scriptura” Baptist like me.

I built it on scripture testimony, scripture is full of the efficacious nature and properties of Christ death alone, do you deny and ignore that ?

 

[atpollard]

The elect were efficaciously reconciled to God, while enemies, by His death for them. So what about the non elect ?

What about them? (the verse says NOTHING about them).
UNDERLINE the part that talks about the non-elect:

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Are they too efficaciously reconciled to God while enemies[unregenerate] by His death ?

Romans 5:10 is silent (underline the part that speaks about the non-elect).

If not why not ?

A good question, but one not answered by God in Romans 5:10 (underline the part that speaks about the non-elect).

It cant be because they are in unbelief, because the elect are reconciled while unbelief, so explain that please. Scripture testimony is loud and clear

"Sola Scriptura" means that the TRADITIONS of men do not carry weight, only what the Word of God actually teaches. Since GOD has not answered, I will not speculate on the non-elect in Romans 5:10. It is only "loud and clear" in your human philosophy ... you cannot underline the part that speaks about the non-elect in Romans 5:10 (actual Scripture).

 

[brightfame52]

What about them? (the verse says NOTHING about them).

What about His Death ? Its plenty about that. Did it reconciled all mankind without exception ? Yes or no

 

[Clifford]

As for Calvinist logic, the argument is that because people are totally depraved and dead in trespasses and sins, unless God elects him or her, the person will never respond to the internal calling of the Holy Spirit. So, the Holy Spirit has to change the person inwardly in an effectual manner, which is regeneration. Then the born again person desires to come to Christ, in which case he or she is given repentance and faith (conversion) and justification (forgiveness and imputation of Christ’s righteousness). This process is called “monergistic grace” or just “monergism.”

But Armenian theology assumes, because the Bible everywhere assumes, that God limits himself out of love so that his initiating, enabling grace is resistible. That leaves the sinner a person, not an object.

 

[brightfame52]

, the person will never respond to the internal calling of the Holy Spirit.

If its internal then theyre regenerated when theyre called. Its the external call man resists in his depravity

 

[Clifford]

Every Armenian from Arminius to the present has always made clear the real motive behind rejecting the doctrine of irresistible grace: preserving the good and loving character of God.

 

[Clifford]

Calvinism makes salvation dependent on good works or something good about persons elected to salvation, or else how does God choose them out of the mass of people destined for hell? It’s either something God sees in them, or else God’s choice of them is arbitrary and capricious.

 

[brightfame52]

Every Armenian from Arminius to the present has always made clear the real motive behind rejecting the doctrine of irresistible grace: preserving the good and loving character of God.

This statement doesnt make a lick of sense

 

[atpollard]

What about His Death ? Its plenty about that. Did it reconciled all mankind without exception ? Yes or no

No, that would be UNIVERSALISM (but Romans 5:10 doesn't speak to that subject).

 

[atpollard]

But Armenian theology assumes, because the Bible everywhere assumes, that God limits himself out of love so that his initiating, enabling grace is resistible. That leaves the sinner a person, not an object.

Ahh ... the invisible text written between the lines. Like baptizing infants and Mary: Queen of the Universe, and the Pope having the authority of Christ on Earth.

God bless the Reformation that brought us "Sola Scriptura" (the Word of God, as the 'norma normans, non normata')!

 

[brightfame52]

No, that would be UNIVERSALISM

Bravo then there is no benefit in the Death of Christ beyond the elect. So it can be said Christ didnt die at all for the non elect. Simply because their is a legal benefit for the elect even while in unbelief, but that cant be said of the non elect, because following the legal benefit of the elect, being reconciled, its stated they shall be saved by His Life, a promise Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So its impossible for His death to have been for the non elect unless you espouse universalism. Thats sanctified reasoning

with scripture. Paul reasoned with men out of the scriptures Acts 17:2
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

 

[Duane]

"All" always means "all kinds of people" (Jews and Gentiles), it does not does not explicitly limit the word, "all" and it should not be understood as "each and every person" without exception.

This perspective argues that Christ died for everyone, and salvation is accessible to all via free will, contrasting with the Calvinist view that "all" is often qualified by context, such as "all the elect".