FreeInChrist
Active Member
That means that they could have decidied opposit of what we understand......
They were given free will to decide....
Is believing/faith a work ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
They were given free will to decide....
Doug Brents
Active Member
Thank you for your uplifting opinion.
You have yet to demonstrate my resistance to Truth, or to provide Truth for me to resist. When you do provide some Truth, I will listen. But calvinism is not Truth.
brightfame52
Active Member
No they could not have, it was predetermined by God they decided what they did
brightfame52
Active Member
Well you the one advocating salvation by the works of evil men.
brightfame52
Active Member
Doug Brents
Active Member
Nope. As usual, you do not read or comprehend what is really said.
Yes indeed, it is a term of derision for people who blatantly misuse Scripture, ignore Truth, and promote a "gospel" of Satan's perversions. And it doesn't really matter what you prefer to be called or to have your "faith" called. When you teach and practice a non-Christian doctrine, you are still a goat.
brightfame52
Active Member
Evidently you dont
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I said
You countered
what the fruit fly does this even mean. If you are correct it means the Stepford folks were preprogramed to make decisions that were what was downloaded into them.
predetermined are at total odds with decisions freely. Predetermined means nothing you do is free. It is why you cannot understand why it is so wrong because you are not allowed to.
You countered
what the fruit fly does this even mean. If you are correct it means the Stepford folks were preprogramed to make decisions that were what was downloaded into them.
predetermined are at total odds with decisions freely. Predetermined means nothing you do is free. It is why you cannot understand why it is so wrong because you are not allowed to.
brightfame52
Active Member
If one is supposedly saved or justified after some action of theirs, like making a decision or what have you, that is salvation or justification by works and not grace. Whenever salvation is conditioned on a person doing is works ! 25
brightfame52
Active Member
If we say that God wont save an individual unless that individual accepts Christ or accepts Gods Grace, thats nothing short of promoting salvation by works, or salvation conditioned on what a person does, their act. See salvation is solely by Grace, its given and its received by the ones its given to by Grace. Grace isn't an offer, it sovereignly makes one alive Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
A person doesn't need to accept whether or not God will make them alive or not. The dead lazarus wasn't offered to be made alive by Christ, he had no decision to make, it was Christs will alone and His Fathers that they may be glorified Jn 11:4
When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
Hence those who say that Grace must be accepted in order for God to save you, are making the final condition for salvation contingent on what a person does, its nothing but good ole man's religion motivated by the spiritually dead carnal mind. Its salvation by works!26
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
A person doesn't need to accept whether or not God will make them alive or not. The dead lazarus wasn't offered to be made alive by Christ, he had no decision to make, it was Christs will alone and His Fathers that they may be glorified Jn 11:4
When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
Hence those who say that Grace must be accepted in order for God to save you, are making the final condition for salvation contingent on what a person does, its nothing but good ole man's religion motivated by the spiritually dead carnal mind. Its salvation by works!26
FreeInChrist
Active Member
@brightfame52
Think carefully about what is happening here. What you are doing is redefining words in order to protect a theological system.
Please consider what the following passage actually states. This comes directly from Holy Scripture. You may check any translation you prefer — the Complete Jewish Bible, the translations you associate with Catholicism, Aramaic sources, or even the New World Translation (JW.org study edition). The meaning does not change.
Romans 4:5NWT — “On the other hand, to the one who does not work but puts faith in the One who declares the ungodly one righteous, his faith is counted as righteousness.”
The text is explicit: God justifies the ungodly, and the ungodly believe. Belief is directly contrasted with works. Faith is not a work; it is the opposite of working.
Romans 8:7–8 excludes law-keeping and the ability to please God in the flesh. It does not exclude trusting Christ. If the ungodly are incapable of believing, then Romans 4:5 becomes incoherent and Paul’s entire argument collapses.
Saving faith is the gift of God towards us who are the redeemed in Christ Jesus
brightfame52
Active Member
Is believing Faith a work ? Yes because its doing something, and consequently if a person must do something prior to God granting them Salvation, then its not to be considered Salvation by Grace, but the opposite, salvation by works. Thats to say, salvation is being rewarded based on something you did !
Doug Brents
Active Member
You are thinking of this all wrong. Yes, faith is an action; it requires physical action to be real faith. But that does not mean that faith is a "work" contrary to grace.
There are works of merit, and there are works of obedience. Consider Luke 17:7-10. What does the servant say? "We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done." Actions of faith do not require, or even deserve, a thank you; let alone a reward or payment for services rendered (Luke 17:9). They are simply our duty to do because they have been commanded by our master.
But our master has said that there are certain gifts (salvation) that He will give to those who obey Him. Perks for willing, loyal, sacrificial service to Him. These are not payments for services rendered (as if we could do anything for God that He would need). But as a good boss will give an year end bonus as a gift to his loyal employees, so God gives gifts to His loyal servants. And as the parable of the workers shows, it doesn't matter if your loyal service is one second or a hundred years, God will give the same gifts to all His loyal servants because of His generosity and love.
brightfame52
Active Member
When Faith/believing becomes a condition you perform to get saved, its a work contrary to grace.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Not according to Scripture. Quit clipping what I say and only responding to parts of it (the way you do with Scripture). Read the whole thing, and respond to the whole thing.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes according to scripture, Salvation is by Grace alone apart from works according to scripture Rom 11:5-6
5 ;Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Again, a misunderstanding of that verse. You need to study Scripture more, and spend less time rehearsing your false doctrines.
brightfame52
Active Member
I dont buy that. Its the correct understanding
brightfame52
Active Member
I have read the whole thing, and I respond to what part I feel needs to be responded to. Sometimes I will respond to the rest afterwards. If you dont want me to respond to different portions of your comments, then dont post them
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