Is believing/faith a work ?

[Darby]

I did read it

Then you have the answer to your question as it has the information you asked for.

 

[FreeInChrist]

God gives the grace to have faith and believe.

For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]
Ephesians 2:8–9


And when [Apollos] wished to cross to Achaia (most of Greece), the brethren wrote to the disciples there, urging and encouraging them to accept and welcome him heartily. When he arrived, he proved a great help to those who through grace (God’s unmerited favor and mercy) had believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Christ as Lord and Savior).
Acts 18:27

So it is by predestination?

 

[Darby]

So it is by predestination?

Not the Calvinistic interpretation. It asserts that God, before creation, eternally decreed the destiny of every individual, preordaining some to eternal life (election) and others to eternal damnation (reprobation), not based on human merit or foreseen actions, but solely on His sovereign will and for His glory. This involves "unconditional election," meaning salvation isn't earned, and humans, in their fallen state, lack the free will to choose God, making divine grace essential.

I'm more of a free will kind of guy. We human beings have the power of choice between alternatives. One reason for saying this is that God is the one who freely—sovereignly—decided to give this power to those he created to bear his image. Another is the fact that God is marvelously able to govern the world, and achieve his ends—for every individual and the world and human race as a whole—in spite of the fact that the persons he made exercise the freedom to choose.

Whatever the Lord pleases, that has He done in the heavens and on earth, in the seas and all deeps—
Psalm 135:6

Praise the Lord! Hallelujah!

 

[brightfame52]

Then you have the answer to your question as it has the information you asked for.

Okay then Im going to understand you as saying your own personal faith contributed to your salvation since you said:

For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith.

Thats salvation by the works of the flesh, your faith

 

[FreeInChrist]

Not the Calvinistic interpretation. It asserts that God, before creation, eternally decreed the destiny of every individual, preordaining some to eternal life (election) and others to eternal damnation (reprobation), not based on human merit or foreseen actions, but solely on His sovereign will and for His glory. This involves "unconditional election," meaning salvation isn't earned, and humans, in their fallen state, lack the free will to choose God, making divine grace essential.

I'm more of a free will kind of guy. We human beings have the power of choice between alternatives. One reason for saying this is that God is the one who freely—sovereignly—decided to give this power to those he created to bear his image. Another is the fact that God is marvelously able to govern the world, and achieve his ends—for every individual and the world and human race as a whole—in spite of the fact that the persons he made exercise the freedom to choose.

Whatever the Lord pleases, that has He done in the heavens and on earth, in the seas and all deeps—
Psalm 135:6

Praise the Lord! Hallelujah!

We will disagree on this because I see thing in a different light .

 

[Darby]

We will disagree on this because I see thing in a different light .

I would very much like to hear your view on predestination. It's in the bible:

Acts 4:28 To carry out all that Your hand and Your will and purpose had predestined (predetermined) should occur.

Eph 2:10 For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].

 

[FreeInChrist]

I would very much like to hear your view on predestination. It's in the bible:

Acts 4:28 To carry out all that Your hand and Your will and purpose had predestined (predetermined) should occur.

Eph 2:10 For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].

I am short on time at the moment but let me just say this first.

I believe that every person is born with purpose, but purpose does not require that regeneration precede faith. God’s having a plan does not necessitate that He irresistibly regenerates individuals before they believe.

As a former believer in predestination, I have come to embrace a free-will framework in which faith precedes regeneration and salvation. Scripture repeatedly presents belief as the means by which one receives life, not the result of already possessing it.

I fully affirm that God has sovereign plans for the world and for humanity as a whole. However, I understand these plans primarily as collective and redemptive in scope rather than as deterministic decrees applied irresistibly to specific individuals apart from their response.

I also believe God’s foreknowledge is complete and perfect. He absolutely knows who will and who will not respond to Him.....even in the deepest bondage to sin. Yet foreknowledge does not equal predetermination. God’s knowing a future free choice does not cause or compel that choice.

In my view, predestination follows God’s foreknowledge of faith rather than precedes it. Those who are “predestined” are so because God eternally knows who will freely respond to Christ, not because He withholds or grants faith arbitrarily beforehand.

 

[brightfame52]

If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 23

 

[Darby]

I am short on time at the moment but let me just say this first.

I believe that every person is born with purpose, but purpose does not require that regeneration precede faith. God’s having a plan does not necessitate that He irresistibly regenerates individuals before they believe.

As a former believer in predestination, I have come to embrace a free-will framework in which faith precedes regeneration and salvation. Scripture repeatedly presents belief as the means by which one receives life, not the result of already possessing it.

I fully affirm that God has sovereign plans for the world and for humanity as a whole. However, I understand these plans primarily as collective and redemptive in scope rather than as deterministic decrees applied irresistibly to specific individuals apart from their response.

I also believe God’s foreknowledge is complete and perfect. He absolutely knows who will and who will not respond to Him.....even in the deepest bondage to sin. Yet foreknowledge does not equal predetermination. God’s knowing a future free choice does not cause or compel that choice.

In my view, predestination follows God’s foreknowledge of faith rather than precedes it. Those who are “predestined” are so because God eternally knows who will freely respond to Christ, not because He withholds or grants faith arbitrarily beforehand.

I do not disagree with that, predestination, regardless of what view you hold, has to begin with foreknowledge because God cannot predestine anyone whom He does not know about in advance.

 

[FreeInChrist]

If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 23

Answer this.

You claim you are a born again Christian and you claim your Heavenly Father somehow gave you faith or caused you to have faith so you wont boast about it.

BTW... I have never boasted about having faith . But if God gave it to me I would be bosting I was one chosen.

So .... now that you were caused to get your faith however it happened SO YOU STILL HAVE YOUR FAITH AND BELIEF ? IF you do then you are working to maintain that faith.... because people do lose their faith.

 

[civic]

Amen, faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ is a work.
John teaching on new testament law not the law of Moses said,
1John 3:23-24,
- and this is Gods commandment that we should believe on the name of the Son Jesus Christ and love one another as He gave us commandment

All new testament commandments when obeyed are works of faith.

1Thessalonians 1:3,
- remembering without ceasing your work of faith...

These works Paul is talking about is works in the new testament gospel of Christ not works in the old testament law of Moses.

is a person condemned by those works or are they approved by God as good works.

 

[civic]

I am short on time at the moment but let me just say this first.

I believe that every person is born with purpose, but purpose does not require that regeneration precede faith. God’s having a plan does not necessitate that He irresistibly regenerates individuals before they believe.

As a former believer in predestination, I have come to embrace a free-will framework in which faith precedes regeneration and salvation. Scripture repeatedly presents belief as the means by which one receives life, not the result of already possessing it.

I fully affirm that God has sovereign plans for the world and for humanity as a whole. However, I understand these plans primarily as collective and redemptive in scope rather than as deterministic decrees applied irresistibly to specific individuals apart from their response.

I also believe God’s foreknowledge is complete and perfect. He absolutely knows who will and who will not respond to Him.....even in the deepest bondage to sin. Yet foreknowledge does not equal predetermination. God’s knowing a future free choice does not cause or compel that choice.

In my view, predestination follows God’s foreknowledge of faith rather than precedes it. Those who are “predestined” are so because God eternally knows who will freely respond to Christ, not because He withholds or grants faith arbitrarily beforehand.

ditto is calvinism man is basically preprogrammed and cannot do anything apart from what has been foreordained for him to do. ITs the Puppet/Puppeteer and the robot following its software program.

 

[FreeInChrist]

ditto is calvinism man is basically preprogrammed and cannot do anything apart from what has been foreordained for him to do. ITs the Puppet/Puppeteer and the robot following its software program.

Or classic Patty Hearst style brainwashing....

No, I should not say that but I was there, and to be honest I feel like I escaped but at times wonder.... as I am sure you have also.

 

[Darby]

Answer this.

You claim you are a born again Christian and you claim your Heavenly Father somehow gave you faith or caused you to have faith so you wont boast about it.

BTW... I have never boasted about having faith . But if God gave it to me I would be bosting I was one chosen.

So .... now that you were caused to get your faith however it happened SO YOU STILL HAVE YOUR FAITH AND BELIEF ? IF you do then you are working to maintain that faith.... because people do lose their faith.

It's all about God's grace. Before salvation and after.

 

[dwight92070]

Spiritual work is done by Spiritual people, saved Regenerated people Eph 2:10. So repenting and believing is commanded only of the spiritual Regenerated people. Now repenting and believing by the unregenerate is works of the flesh.

Even the father of the prodigal son said that his son was (spiritually) dead, but had come to life again. Luke 15:24 How did that happen? Did God just ZAP him and regenerate him? No, the prodigal made a choice, even while he was spiritually dead: "I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men." Luke 15:18-19

 

[brightfame52]

Even the father of the prodigal son said that his son was (spiritually) dead, but had come to life again. Luke 15:24 How did that happen?

He was regenerated obviously

 

[dwight92070]

I would very much like to hear your view on predestination. It's in the bible:

Acts 4:28 To carry out all that Your hand and Your will and purpose had predestined (predetermined) should occur.

Eph 2:10 For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].

Acts 4:28 specifically speaks of God having predestined the crucifixion of Jesus. But to accomplish this, He used the free will decisions of Judas, Herod, Pilate, the Jews and the Gentiles. He does not normally override our free will. Or on the occasion when He does, it does not jeopardize our salvation. In fact, sometimes He overrides our decisions in order to physically save us, so that afterwards we will desire to be spiritually saved.

 

[dwight92070]

He was regenerated obviously

Yes, after he repented (changed his mind), obviously.

 

[civic]

Yes, after he repented (changed his mind), obviously.

regeneration or the new birth is not even in the narrative.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, after he repented (changed his mind), obviously.

No it was b4 that, folk dont make themselves alive again, thats a Sovereign work of God, resurrection.