Infant Reprobation and Damnation

[civic]

Do the calvinists here affirm infant reprobation as James White teaches and believes just like augustine taught. ?

The Augnstinian doctrine is that original sin is damning, and that infants deserve eternal death on account of it. Being fallen in Adam, they have a corrupt disposition or inclination, which is both voluntary and responsible. It is the self in its central and inmost self-determination. Though the infant has committed no acts of known and wilful transgression, yet his heart is estranged from God, and his will is at enmity with the holy law of God. When be comes to years of consciousness he feels guilty for this estrangement and this enmity, and this proves that it is guilt. An infant, therefore, needs salvation because be is really culpable and punishable. He reqnires the whole work of the Redeemer, both as expiating guilt and cleansing from pollution.

Infant Salvation As Related to Original Sin, Calvinism, William Greenough Thayer Shedd, Christian Classics books at BibleStudyTools.com

Read Infant Salvation As Related to Original Sin of Calvinism from author William Greenough Thayer Shedd. Find more Christian classics for theology and Bible study at Bible Study Tools....

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[civic]

Also is spanking or using the rod of discipline with a crying infant child a sin ?

 

[Diserner]

Those are two dramatically different questions, lol. Should put them in separate places.

 

[civic]

Those are two dramatically different questions, lol. Should put them in separate places.

nope they are interconnected.

 

[Diserner]

nope they are interconnected.

Spanking is like the wrath of God for all eternity, huh.

If you want to make that claim, it might behoove you to somehow be honest you are connecting them and explain why.

 

[civic]

Spanking is like the wrath of God for all eternity, huh.

If you want to make that claim, it might behoove you to somehow be honest you are connecting them and explain why.

is it a sin to beat your 1 month crying infant with the rod of discipline ?

lets check your moral compass out. your sense of justice, right and wrong

hmmmm

 

[Diserner]

lets check your moral compass out. your sense of justice, right and wrong

Yeah, an idolator always wants to compare what God can do with what humans can do.

That's the nature of idolatry—putting God on our level, making him just another one of "the guys," he has to stand in line like everyone else.

The whole logic is fundamentally flawed—it's a fallacy of hidden assumptions.

 

[Diserner]

is it a sin to beat your 1 month crying infant with the rod of discipline ?

lets check your moral compass out. your sense of justice, right and wrong

hmmmm

If your full grown son sins against, you, do you send your other perfect son to be punished with what he deserves?

If he then does not accept your perfect son being killed on his behalf, do you then throw him into a dungeon for all eternity?

hmmmm

 

[TedT]

ImCo:
I consider that it is most likely (and a better interpretation of scripture) that we started our existence before the creation of the physical world and because of our responses to YHWH's declaration of HIS deity and as our only saviour from sin, some were made redeemable from any future sin while others were consigned to condemnation as unforgivably reprobate.

After being sown into the world of mankind, Matt 13:36-39, the people of the kingdom live until their rebirth, fulfilling HIS election promise to them of salvation, while those who are condemned already for sinning the unforgivable sin must live together with the sinful elect, Matt 13:27-30, as examples to sinful good seed of the eternal nature of the sinfulness of the reprobate so as to hasten their repentance.

So, some infants are indeed reprobate at conception by their free will decision before their conception and some are HIS elect sheep by their free will decision to accept HIM as their GOD and saviour from sin before their conception, but who later went astray from HIM into sinfulness.

Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
IF we can be taught wisdom in the womb then we can be redeemed while in the womb and then all that is necessary is for us to die to enter into death in Adam, allowing Christ to die once for all elect sinners without having to die once for each elect sinner.

 

[Diserner]

we started our existence before the creation of the physical world

That raises an interesting question.

Is it immoral to be judged for a sin you can't remember committing?

 

[civic]

If your full grown son sins against, you, do you send your other perfect son to be punished with what he deserves?

If he then does not accept your perfect son being killed on his behalf, do you then throw him into a dungeon for all eternity?

hmmmm

Nice dodge try answering the question honesty

 

[Diserner]

Nice dodge try answering the question honesty

No, I do not do everything God does.

Nor should I.

 

[civic]

No, I do not do everything God does.

Nor should I.

That was not my question

 

[Diserner]

That was not my question

Explain to me the difference then.

 

[TedT]

That raises an interesting question.

Is it immoral to be judged for a sin you can't remember committing?

Of course not...

The condemnation of the Amorites was not postponed until they became cognizant of their sinfulness but until the Israelites were finally fed up enough with them interfering with their travels to the promised land to finally do something about it! Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Luke 8:17 For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open. may pertain to this question...no one is judged unaware of his sinfulness.

We are taught that everyone knows of the Divinity of YHWH but repress that memory so as to believe the lies because they love sin more than the truth...Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. Berean Standard Bible, to
28 Furthermore, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. to the end. Sinful denial of the truth seems to (may?) lead to a lack of memory of the spiritual truth, not just being born as men in a body we can't make work for many years.

 

[civic]

Explain to me the difference then.

See post 6

 

[Diserner]

See post 6

That doesn't explain the difference.

Do you think God has to do everything humans are morally obligated to do?

Does he have to worship himself?

 

[civic]

That doesn't explain the difference.

Do you think God has to do everything humans are morally obligated to do?

Does he have to worship himself?

You still avoided my question which is obvious why much like the Calvinists on the old forum did for the same reasons. The question exposes the lie of origin sin and guilt. It exposes a heretical view of God believed by many who were duped by Augustine and Calvin.

The question exposes the immoral and unjust punishment of the innocent.

 

[Diserner]

You still avoided my question which is obvious why much like the Calvinists on the old forum did for the same reasons. The question exposes the lie of origin sin and guilt. It exposes a heretical view of God believed by many who were duped by Augustine and Calvin.

The question exposes the immoral and unjust punishment of the innocent.

No YOU are the one avoiding questions by REFUSING to examine the PRESUPPOSITIONS of your own question.

It's like asking "When did you stop beating your wife?"

And then when the person says "But I never WAS beating my wife."

Then you repeat over and over and over:

"YOU ARE JUST AVOIDING THE QUESTION BECAUSE IT EXPOSES YOU WERE BEATING YOUR WIFE."

You are smuggling presuppositions, answers, and assertions into your incorrect question.

 

[Rockson]

ImCo:
I consider that it is most likely (and a better interpretation of scripture) that we started our existence before the creation of the physical world and because of our responses to YHWH's declaration of HIS deity and as our only saviour from sin, some were made redeemable from any future sin while others were consigned to condemnation as unforgivably reprobate.

Well sorry and no offence but I'd say that's way, way out there on the fringe. Let's look at your verse though Ted.

.Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

Where in the world did you even get this ? I just scanned dozens of translations in bible hub I saw one something similar with the NLT which said,

But you desire honesty from the womb, teaching me wisdom even there. Ps 51:6

All the other translations and there are lists have it down much this way,

Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts, And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom. Ps 51:6

Then you go to the commentaries and all the ones I saw have the hidden part to be considered the hidden man of the heart 1 Pt 3:4 our spirits. That is how God enlightens us....The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord enlightening all the inward parts of the belly. Prov 20:27 So to suggest the hidden parts is the physical womb is pretty weak.

Point : I wouldn't take too seriously what you consider to be likely about unborn having sinned before coming here or being conceived. That's pretty weird.