brightfame52
Active Member
Please show one scripture that says God doesnt regenerate unbelievers.
Imputation of the Righteousness of Christ.
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
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I posted many
Were you not capable of understanding?
Regeneration makes alive. Those who do not believe are not made alive
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
But you never address this fact.
One must believe before one is made a child of God
John 1:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
These are many
That is a fabrication
You addressed nothing
Clearly those who do not believe are not made alive- regenerated
As I told you.
Deal with the verses; try to show they allow for regenerating unbelievers.
I stated
The verses do not state an unbeliever may be made alive.
Scripture shows
Those who do not believe will not see life-regeneration
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
But you never address this fact.
One must believe before one is made a child of God
John 1:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
You do not believe or address the scriptures.
brightfame52
Active Member
Where ? I havent seen it because it doesnt exist
Here
Regeneration makes alive. Those who do not believe are not made alive
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
Were you not capable of understanding?
Scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
But you never address this fact.
One must believe before one is made a child of God
John 1:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Please address a verse for a change.
Bearing false witness is a sin
Those who do not believe will not see life-regeneration
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
But you never address this fact.
One must believe before one is made a child of God
John 1:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
You do not believe or address the scriptures.
brightfame52
Active Member
Where ? Show me one scripture that says God doesnt regenerate unbelievers. Thats as dumb as saying God doesnt save sinners.
brightfame52
Active Member
Nowhere in that scripture does it state God doesnt regenerate unbelievers.
brightfame52
Active Member
Then you better look in the mirror. Not one scripture says God doesnt regenerate unbelievers. In fact if that was the case, none would ever believe in Jesus. Man naturally in the flesh cant do it since it pleases God to do so. Read this 1 Jn 3:22-23
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. Now whats a commandment done pleasing in sight ?
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Now its plain as day, whats done, a commandmdnet pleasing in Gids sight "That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, " Now the man in the flesh cant do that. Furthermore he isnt subject to the command of God Rom 8:7-8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
The word law is nomos and means:
anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
- of any law whatsoever
- a law or rule producing a state approved of God
- by the observance of which is approved of God
- a precept or injunction
- a law or rule producing a state approved of God
So a person in the flesh, unregenerate can never ever please God and obey the command to believe on the name of Christ and please God.
So if your wayward idea is no unbeliever is ever regenerated, then you have a world full of unbelievers going to hell
You failed to address a single verse
Those who do not believe will not see life-regeneration
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
But you never address this fact.
One must believe before one is made a child of God
John 1:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
You do not believe or address the scriptures.
We see here God is pleased when men believe
Heb 11:5–6 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
And when they believe they are regenerated, that is, made alive, regenerated, born again, saved
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
John 3:15 (NASB 95) — 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
John 3:16 (NASB 95) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 6:40 (NASB 95) — 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
John 1:12 (NASB 95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Acts 16:31 (NASB 95) — 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
John 20:31 (NASB 95) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
You failed to address the verse
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Please address a verse for a change.
Right here we see
Regeneration makes alive. Those who do not believe are not made alive
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
Were you not capable of understanding?
Scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
But you never address this fact.
One must believe before one is made a child of God
John 1:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Will you ever address a verse?
brightfame52
Active Member
For what ? You have failed to provide one that states what you said.
brightfame52
Active Member
The verse doesnt say God doesnt regenerate unbelievers,
brightfame52
Active Member
You seeing things
DavidTree
Active Member
The Righteousness of CHRIST is 'imputed' in/upon our spirit when we are Born of the Spirit thru Faith in the GIFT of God.Original reference.
"Word parsing" is common in most all of the arguments made between Calvinists and Arminianists. Many believe that "Imputation" is a "loaded word". I do agree that "word choice" in the Scriptures is a very important issue. In fact, it extends far beyond this particular topic into many doctrinal positions.
As @TomL mentions below,
In review, this same man also stated,
"I felt I did trust in Christ, Christ alone, for salvation; and an assurance was given me that he had taken away my sins, even mine, and saved me from the law of sin and death"
Which seems not to be compatible with his latter statement "We do not find it expressly affirmed in Scripture, that God imputes the righteousness of Christ to any…”
First question....
1. What righteousness do we receive or are gifted (use the word you prefer) in Salvation?
Consider, the explicit statement of the apostle Paul when dealing with what "righteousness" he planned to appeal in the "Resurrection".
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
2. What word would best describe the righteousness established through the work of Christ or work of faith. Feel free to reword to meet your understanding in response. Not trying to lead anyone at all.
"Imputation" is a English word that has become more of a reference to a "doctrine" than a simple word relating information. The same is true for English words such as "Concupiscence". (Doctrinal teaches attempt to "lead" the narrative in any discussion of "faith". This should not be true)
Word choices carry with them various "connotations" beyond their "literal" meaning.
λογίζομαι is found 124 times throughout the Scriptures in 122 verses.
The first appearance of the Greek word "λογίζομαι" is found in Genesis 15:6 and is proof of Paul's appeal to such from the Greek OT in Romans 4 and James's appeal in James chapter 2.
However, λογίζομαι is also found throughout the Scriptures.
The sematic range of λογίζομαι requires much consideration. At its very base form λογίζομαι is a "consideration" or "mental decision". A "reasoned conclusion".
Add the fact that λογίζομαι is explicitly tied to "reconciliation" (Which has also become more of a doctrine than a translation in English) in 2 Cor 5:19
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Which "flavors" our conclusions.
Personally, I believe the best choice of words in English for λογίζομαι is "considered, count, or reckon". I have no problem with "impute" but unless you know the circumstances, this can be a "loaded word" in the conversation.
I hope that I've lead with an appropriate/fair evaluation of the topic. Please correct me where you "λογίζομαι" I'm wrong.
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
brightfame52
Active Member
Actually, that's when its imparted, the righteousness of Christ was imputed to the charge/account of the elect at the Cross when Christ finished the legal transaction 2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Then later we will have Christs righteousness imparted in regeneration and the gift of faith to receive the knowledge, persuasion and assurance of Christs righteousness imputed.
DavidTree
Active Member
The sins of the world was imputed upon Christ at the Cross.
The Righteousness of Christ is imputed upon/in our spirit when we are Born-Above by the Spirit thru faith in the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world.
This impartation is the 'SEAL of Christ's Righteousness' = Ephesians 1:13
In Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—
you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
LATER, we will receive the THIRD Promise of/from the FATHER
