If you believe Paul, read on for your own edification and/or clarification. If you DO NOT believe Paul, skip on by as you will not understand.

[MTMattie]

Though you all have, at one time or the other read this.... I am posting the following before making comment.

ROMANS 9:5

Because if you look at many translations you will see the actual meaning can vary and as such when I did a simple search on this verse, based from elsewhere, I was shocked to see the divisions within the "Christian" community of what is said here.

So I looked it up in the the Greek/English to see how the translations started from languages closest to the time of the originals .

ὧν οἱ πατέρες καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα ὁ

Of whom the fathers, and of whom the Christ - according to the flesh the one

ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας ἀμήν
being over all God, blessed for the ages. Amen.

And the Peshitta.. Which has been given 4 translations as follows.

Romans 9:5 - ܘܰܐܒ݂ܳܗܳܬ݂ܳܐ ܘܡܶܢܗܽܘܢ ܐܶܬ݂ܚܙܺܝ ܡܫܺܝܚܳܐ ܒ݁ܰܒ݂ܣܰܪ ܕ݁ܺܐܝܬ݂ܰܘܗ݈ܝ ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ ܕ݁ܥܰܠ ܟ݁ܽܠ ܕ݁ܠܶܗ ܬ݁ܶܫܒ݁ܚܳܢ ܘܒ݂ܽܘܪܟ݁ܳܢ ܠܥܳܠܰܡ ܥܳܠܡܺܝܢ ܐܰܡܺܝܢ ܀

Translations​

(Etheridge) and the fathers; and from whom appeared the Meshiha in the flesh, who is Aloha over all: his be praises and benedictions to the age of ages. Amen.

(Murdock) and from among whom, Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is God over all; to whom be praises and benediction, for ever and ever; Amen.

(Lamsa) Whose are the fathers, from among whom Christ appeared in the flesh, who is God over all, to whom are due praises and thanksgiving, for ever and ever. Amen.

(KJV) Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Only KJV is in disagreement......
Now... check the following. THEY ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Compare Translations for Romans 9:5​

Holman Christian Standard Bible
5 The forefathers are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Messiah, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

English Standard Version
5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

King James Version
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

The Message Bible
5 to say nothing of being the race that produced the Messiah, the Christ, who is God over everything, always. Oh, yes!

New American Standard Bible
5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

New International Version
5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

New King James Version
5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

New Living Translation
5 Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

New Revised Standard
5 to them belong the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, comes the Messiah, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

American Standard Version
5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

The Bible in Basic English
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom came Christ in the flesh, who is over all, God, to whom be blessing for ever. So be it.

Common English Bible
5 The Jewish ancestors are theirs, and the Christ descended from those ancestors. He is the one who rules over all things, who is God, and who is blessed forever. Amen.

Common English Bible w/ Apocrypha
5 The Jewish ancestors are theirs, and the Christ descended from those ancestors. He is the one who rules over all things, who is God, and who is blessed forever. Amen.

The Complete Jewish Bible
5 the Patriarchs are theirs; and from them, as far as his physical descent is concerned, came the Messiah, who is over all. Praised be ADONAI for ever! Amen.

The Darby Translation
5 whose [are] the fathers; and of whom, as according to flesh, [is] the Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Good News Translation
5 they are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! Amen.

Good News Translation w/ Apocrypha
5 they are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! Amen.

GOD'S WORD Translation
5 The Messiah is descended from their ancestors according to his human nature. The Messiah is God over everything, forever blessed. Amen.

Hebrew Names Version
5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is Messiah as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amein.

Jubilee Bible 2000
5 whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh is the Christ, who is God over all things, blessed for all the ages. Amen.

King James Version w/ Apocrypha
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Lexham English Bible
5 [to] whom [belong] the patriarchs, and from whom [is] the Christ according to human descent, who is God over all, blessed {forever}! Amen.

New Century Version
5 They are the descendants of our great ancestors, and they are the earthly family into which Christ was born, who is God over all. Praise him forever! Amen.

New International Reader's Version
5 The founders of our nation belong to them. Christ comes from their family line. He is God over all. May he always be praised! Amen.

New Revised Standard w/ Apocrypha
5 to them belong the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, comes the Messiah, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
5 Whose are the fathers and of whom is Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all things, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Revised Standard Version
5 to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed for ever. Amen.

Revised Standard Version w/ Apocrypha
5 to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed for ever. Amen.

SBL Greek New Testament
5 ὧν οἱ πατέρες, καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων, θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας · ἀμήν.

Third Millennium Bible
5 of whom are the fathers, and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Third Millennium Bible w/ Apocrypha
5 of whom are the fathers, and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Tyndale
5 whose also are the fathers and they of whome (as concernynge the flesshe) Christ came which is God over all thinges blessed for ever Amen.

The Latin Vulgate
5 quorum patres et ex quibus Christus secundum carnem qui est super omnia Deus benedictus in saecula amen

The Latin Vulgate w/ Apocrypha
5 quorum patres et ex quibus Christus secundum carnem qui est super omnia Deus benedictus in saecula amen

The Webster Bible
5 Whose [are] the fathers, and from whom according to the flesh, Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

World English Bible
5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen.

Weymouth New Testament
5 To them the Patriarchs belong, and from them in respect of His human lineage came the Christ, who is exalted above all, God blessed throughout the Ages. Amen.

Wycliffe
5 whose be the fathers, and of which is Christ after the flesh [+and of whom is Christ after the flesh], that is God above all things, blessed into worlds. Amen.

Young's Literal Translation
5 whose [are] the fathers, and of whom [is] the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen.

 

[Dizerner]

Paul is my homeboy.

The reason you get such variation is grammatically it can go either way.

The punctuation of this verse is critical to its exegesis. The punctuation functions to either conjoin the expression ο ων επι παντων θεος ευλογητος εις τους αιωνας (“the one being over all God blessed forever”) with ο Χριστος το κατα σαρκα (“the Christ according to the flesh”) or to separate it. Depending upon which punctuation is employed, Christ is said to be God or not to be God—obviously a crucial difference. One of the following two renderings represents the original thought:​

​

Philip W. Comfort, New Testament Text and Translation Commentary: Commentary on the Variant Readings of the Ancient New Testament Manuscripts and How They Relate to the Major English Translations (Carol Stream, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 2008), 455.​

 

[MTMattie]

Paul is my homeboy.

The reason you get such variation is grammatically it can go either way.

The punctuation of this verse is critical to its exegesis. The punctuation functions to either conjoin the expression ο ων επι παντων θεος ευλογητος εις τους αιωνας (“the one being over all God blessed forever”) with ο Χριστος το κατα σαρκα (“the Christ according to the flesh”) or to separate it. Depending upon which punctuation is employed, Christ is said to be God or not to be God—obviously a crucial difference. One of the following two renderings represents the original thought:​

​

Philip W. Comfort, New Testament Text and Translation Commentary: Commentary on the Variant Readings of the Ancient New Testament Manuscripts and How They Relate to the Major English Translations (Carol Stream, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 2008), 455.​

Agreed, but if you go back to the Aramaic as translated and the Greek Interlinear they both indicate he is God.

Seems like once one moves away from those verses, then it is up to whatever anyone feels reads the best.

Thanks for commenting.

 

[Dizerner]

The Aramaic was a translation, it is not the original.

 

[MTMattie]

The Aramaic was a translation, it is not the original.

Are you meaning the actual Aramaic was a ttranslation in Aramaic from ?????
That could account for four English Translations, with KJ being the odd man out

The following I also have.

If you have a more accurate one, please share.


This is from https://www.thearamaicscriptures.com/

Welcome to The Holy Aramaic Scriptures!​

The Khabouris Manuscript


This Website features The Holy Aramaic Scriptures, as preserved in the ancient Eastern Aramaic Text of The New Testament, in manuscripts such as The Yonan Codex, The Khabouris Codex, The 1199 Houghton Codex, and The Mingana 148 Codex, for you to read and study; giving as literal as possible a rendering of this Holy Biblical Text, in a fresh, accurate, and literal, English Translation.

ܘܐܒܗܬܐ ܘܡܢܗܘܢ ܐܬܚܙܝ ܡܫܝܚܐ ܒܒܣܪ ܕܐܝܬܘܗܝ ܐܠܗܐ ܥܠ ܟܠ ܕܠܗ ܬܫܒܚܢ ܘܒܘܪܟܢ ܠܥܠܡ ܥܠܡܝܢ ܐܡܝܢ
5 and The Fathers, from whom Meshikha {The Anointed One} has appeared in the flesh, who is Alaha {God} over all; which unto Him are praises and blessings for everlasting eternities! Amiyn {Amen}.

 

[Dizerner]

Are you meaning the actual Aramaic was a ttranslation in Aramaic from ?????

Yes.

The Aramaic Bibles were a later translation from the Greek and Hebrew.

Only the portions in Daniel and Ezra are original Aramaic and they are a much older version of Aramaic, as it has changed over time.

 

[MTMattie]

Yes.

The Aramaic Bibles were a later translation from the Greek and Hebrew.

Only the portions in Daniel and Ezra are original Aramaic and they are a much older version of Aramaic, as it has changed over time.

Hmmm. That sure is an old looking one in the picture above.

And the Syriac Peshitta of the Old Testament is also?

Ok... Ill quit usung that for a reference.... Thanks, I think.

If the Aramaic translations were for Greek and Hebrew, they seem to be translated into English from those with a seemingly more
.... how to say this????

accuracy then the multitudes of Greek to English versions that seem to be contradictory.... based on what the interpreters understand a scripture to mean.

 

[Dizerner]

Hmmm. That sure is an old looking one in the picture above.

Well, you have to realize, lol, the difference between 1,000 and 2,000 years old, are both going to look old, hah!

And the Syriac Peshitta of the Old Testament is also?

Our oldest extant copies are 5th and 6th century even though it is supposed the original translation was made 200 years prior to Christ or so.

If the Aramaic translations were for Greek and Hebrew, they seem to be translated into English from those with a seemingly more
.... how to say this????View attachment 1218

accuracy then the multitudes of Greek to English versions that seem to be contradictory.... based on what the interpreters understand a scripture to mean.

They may still be accurate in some regards if they come from older manuscripts or people with a better understanding of Hebrew and Greek.

They are always worth checking out, along with the Targums.