If Jesus is really the Messiah, and if he is so important, why doesn’t the Torah speak of him?

[Johann]

That seems true, but you also said...

If rabbinical writings downplay the role of Messiah, doesn't that make them unreliable...?
(I generally trust Messianic communities, though.)

What a pity Christians don't read secondary sources.
J.

 

[Maurice]

If Jesus is really the Messiah, and if he is so important, why doesn’t the Torah speak of him?​

I beg your pardon??

“And [Jesus] said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.” (Luke 24:44, KJV)

I must agree, When I read the title of the thread that's exactly where mine mind went. I just purchased a book entitled Jesus on Every Page by David Murray.

Dr. Murray shares his ten simple ways to seek and find Christ in the Old Testament, diving deep into:

• Christ's planet--discovering Jesus in the story of Creation
• Christ's people--discovering Jesus in the characters of the Old Testament
• Christ's promises--discovering Jesus in the covenants of the Old Testament

Recognizing Jesus in the full breadth of scripture is important for every Christian. In this step-by-step guide to discovering Jesus in the Old Testament, Dr. Murray provides a framework that will help you start practicing this wonderful way of enjoying Jesus throughout the Bible.

Whether you are preaching Jesus through Old Testament readings or just beginning to discover the reality of Christ in the Old Testament, Jesus on Every Page is an accessible guide to getting to know the Old Testament for what it truly is: full of Jesus.

 

[Complete]

Hello @Johann,

I understand the Torah to consist of the first five books of the Old Testament (i.e., The Pentateuch), am I correct? Or is there more to it than that?
If it consists only of the first five books of the Bible that we hold dear, then there is surely nothing to object to within it.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[civic]

https://www.difa3iat.com/57907.html...ant-why-doesnt-the-torah-speak-of-him-at-all/

If Jesus is really the Messiah, and if he is so important, why doesn’t the Torah speak of him at all?
المحتوى
You would be surprised to see how many passages and concepts actually point to Jesus the Messiah in the Torah. But before you question my beliefs, are you aware that the Torah doesn’t say much about the “traditional” Jewish Messiah? Does this mean the Messiah is unimportant to traditional Judaism? And the Torah says nothing about the oral law. What does this imply? You might want to think twice about your argument.

In the Torah (i.e., the Five Books of Moses), the four times the word mashiach is found (Lev. 4:3, 5, 16; 6:15), it refers to the anointed high priest (hakohen hamashiach), not the Messiah. In fact, with few possible exceptions, the term mashiach is almost never used with reference to the Messiah in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Also, there is no concept of the Messiah as the son of David in the Torah, since David was not born until many years later. So, we are not looking primarily for direct references to “the Messiah” (and certainly not to the “son of David”) as such in the Torah.1 Rather, we are looking for foreshadowings, general predictions, and “pre-illustrations” of the Messiah in the Torah. Here are just a few.


Brown, M. L. (2003). Answering Jewish objections to Jesus, Volume 3: Messianic prophecy objections (3). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.

Jesus the Messiah said the OT was about Himself which includes the law of Moses.

Luke 24:25-27
25 And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 " Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

John 5:39-40
39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.


Luke 24:44-45
44Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

hope this helps !!!

 

[Johann]

Hello @Johann,

I understand the Torah to consist of the first five books of the Old Testament (i.e., The Pentateuch), am I correct? Or is there more to it than that?
If it consists only of the first five books of the Bible that we hold dear, then there is surely nothing to object to within it.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

TORAH (The Law):

Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)
Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)
Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)
Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)
Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)
NEVI'IM (The Prophets):

Yehoshua (Joshua)
Shoftim (Judges)
Shmuel (I & II Samuel)
Melakhim (I & II Kings)
Yeshayah (Isaiah)
Yirmyah (Jeremiah)
Yechezqel (Ezekiel)
The Twelve (treated as one book):
Hoshea (Hosea)
Yoel (Joel)
Amos
Ovadyah (Obadiah)
Yonah (Jonah)
Mikhah (Micah)
Nachum
Chavaqquq (Habbakkuk)
Tzefanyah (Zephaniah)
Chaggai
Zekharyah (Zechariah)
Malakhi
KETUVIM (The Writings):

Tehillim (Psalms)
Mishlei (Proverbs)
Iyov (Job)
Shir Ha-Shirim (Song of Songs)
Ruth
Eikhah (Lamentations)
Qoheleth (the author's name) (Ecclesiastes)
Esther
Daniel
Ezra & Nechemyah (Nehemiah) (treated as one book)
Divrei Ha-Yamim (The words of the days) (Chronicles)
Written Torah is often referred to as the Tanakh, which is an acrostic of Torah, Nevi'im and Ketuvim.

The Torah is incomplete without the New Testament @Complete
Johann

 

[Complete]

TORAH (The Law):

Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)
Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)
Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)
Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)
Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)
NEVI'IM (The Prophets):

Yehoshua (Joshua)
Shoftim (Judges)
Shmuel (I & II Samuel)
Melakhim (I & II Kings)
Yeshayah (Isaiah)
Yirmyah (Jeremiah)
Yechezqel (Ezekiel)
The Twelve (treated as one book):
Hoshea (Hosea)
Yoel (Joel)
Amos
Ovadyah (Obadiah)
Yonah (Jonah)
Mikhah (Micah)
Nachum
Chavaqquq (Habbakkuk)
Tzefanyah (Zephaniah)
Chaggai
Zekharyah (Zechariah)
Malakhi
KETUVIM (The Writings):

Tehillim (Psalms)
Mishlei (Proverbs)
Iyov (Job)
Shir Ha-Shirim (Song of Songs)
Ruth
Eikhah (Lamentations)
Qoheleth (the author's name) (Ecclesiastes)
Esther
Daniel
Ezra & Nechemyah (Nehemiah) (treated as one book)
Divrei Ha-Yamim (The words of the days) (Chronicles)
Written Torah is often referred to as the Tanakh, which is an acrostic of Torah, Nevi'im and Ketuvim.

The Torah is incomplete without the New Testament @Complete
Johann

Thank you, @Johann,

So it is the same as our own Old Testament, apart from the order in which they are arranged, yes?

Thank you for your time and patience.

 

[Johann]

Thank you, @Johann,

So it is the same as our own Old Testament, apart from the order in which they are arranged, yes?

Thank you for your time and patience.

Exactly the same-but some who are not Jews-embracing Judaism-would say "Torah" instead of Scriptures or the Bible.