So do you see water baptism then for today? and even paul stated to us all scriptures are inspired to us, so why not use all of the NT authors then for theology?
How do the unsaved suffer forever in hell without the Tree of Life?
- Thread starter charismaticlady
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The problem is though that the completed canon meant no more revelations came from God, and the only legit prophets and Apostles would be the ones recorded down to us in the Bible
It's very hot and they have no water.
In the Gospel of Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells the parable of a rich man and a beggar named Lazarus. The rich man lived in luxury, dressed in fine clothes, and feasted every day, while Lazarus, covered in sores, lay at the rich man's gate, longing for scraps from his table. When both men died, Lazarus was carried by angels to Abraham's side, while the rich man found himself in hell, tormented and in agony.
In his torment, the rich man looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus beside him. He cried out, asking Abraham to send Lazarus to dip his finger in water and cool his tongue, for he was in agony in the flames. Abraham responded by reminding the rich man of his life of luxury and Lazarus's suffering, stating that a great chasm had been fixed between them, preventing anyone from crossing over.
Its a guarantee the opposite is truth. Explain to all of us that since God willed his name in his bible over 7000 places. Why your religion refuses to support his will on that important matter, then turn around and condemn the translators who give support to Jesus' Fathers will on that matter as Jesus would and does? In light of Matt 7:21--one best be giving 100% support to Jesus' Father's will on all matters.
God real name is Yahweh
charismaticlady
Active Member
You are limiting the gift to Scripture when there is also personal prophecies like the prophecy Agabus gave to Paul, AND what modern prophets do that Peter did on the Day of Pentecost - announce the fulfillment of Joel's ancient prophecy. There is the whole Book of Revelation that has yet to be fulfilled and announced. All the gifts of the Spirit are part of our New Covenant. Some denominations act like they live in a different covenant altogether - one with weaker promises. You need to leave that heretical denomination and give Jesus the credit He deserves and experience the power of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, something most denominationalists have never experienced, and probably never will...even though Jesus said we MUST be born again. What gets born again is our nature. A sin nature to one that partakes of the divine nature of God and is not a slave to sin, but children of God. 1 John 1:9 says we are cleansed of ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. You don't believe that making you an unbeliever in what Jesus did on the cross. I bet you believe the heresy that Jesus just paid our punishment, so we can sin, repent, sin, repent etc. in a never ending life of sin with no punishment or even power to not sin in the first place! No longer committing sin is the reason only our past sins were taken away.
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 ;For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
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Victoria
Active Member
Below is a list of the different types of baptisms mentioned throughout the Bible.
This is from a previous post I made late last year.
The ones listed in blue are wet. Notice a common theme among them?
The baptism that I believe applies to us today is #14:
1. Noah’s type baptism
Peter mentions that eight people were saved by water in an ark as a type of a future baptism.
Water is present, but the people are dry. (Gen 6:13; 1 Peter 3:20-21)
2. Baptism unto Moses
Paul presents Israel’s baptism unto Moses “in the cloud and in the sea”.
Water is present, but the people are dry. (1 Cor 10:1-2; Exo 14:29)
3. Israel’s ceremonial cleansings
These cleansing rituals were required under the Mosaic Law for the cleansing of the people.
(Num 19:13; Lev 11:25; Exo 19:14; Exo 30:17-21; Heb 9:10)
4. Levitical priesthood baptisms
These washings were required in order to become a priest under the Law of Moses.
(Exo 29:4; Lev 8:6; Num 8:7)
5. Traditional Jewish baptisms
These baptisms were not mandated under the Law but were part of Jewish tradition.
(Mt 15:1-2; Mk 7:1-9; Lk 11:38)
6. John’s baptism
John came to Israel baptizing with water for the remission of sins so that they could enter the promised kingdom
to Israel and identify their Messiah. (Mt 3:5-6; Mk 1:4; Lk 3:3; Jn 1:31; Lk 7:29; Acts 10:37)
7. Jesus’ baptism by John
Jesus, who knew no sin, was baptized by John to fulfill all righteousness under the law.
(Mat 3:13-17; Mk 1:9-10)
8. Baptism with fire
Jesus would baptize the nation with fire as they went through the tribulation.
This trial baptism would damn the unfaithful to hell.
(Isa 4:4; Mal 3:2-3; Mt 3:11; Lk 3:16)
9. Jesus’ baptism unto death
Jesus’ second baptism which he accomplished at the cross where he was identified with the sins of Israel and the world.
(Mt 20:22-23; Mk 10:38-39; Luke 12:50)
10. Pentecostal water baptism
Peter’s presentation of water baptism for the remission of sins in the name of Jesus.
This was John’s baptism plus the name of Jesus.
(Acts 2:38; Mk 16:16; Mt 28:19; Acts 22:16; Eze 36:25)
11. Pentecostal Spirit baptism
This is the baptism with the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ from heaven poured out upon the believing remnant of Israel
with signs and powers following. (Isa 44:3; Mt 3:11; Mk 1:8; Lk 24:49; Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16)
12. Gentile baptism of Cornelius
Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit as a sign to Peter. Peter subsequently baptizes Cornelius and the
other Spirit-filled Gentiles with water in a different order but for the same reason as Pentecost.
(Acts 10:45-48)
13. Baptism for the dead
This baptism is debated heavily and is most likely synonymous with one of the other baptisms. If this is true,
“for the dead” would signify the circumstance under which those believers were baptized.
(1 Cor 15:29)
14. Baptism into Christ
The only baptism taught by Paul which identifies the believer with Christ, his death, and resurrection.
This baptism is performed by the Spirit and does not include water.
(1 Cor 12:13; Eph 4:5; Col 2:12; Gal 3:27; Rom 6:3-4)
By: Grace Ambassadors (https://graceambassadors.com/)
Verse List: Baptisms in the Bible
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Victoria
Active Member
To answer your second question... I've learned to first check who the audience is before I think to apply what's being taught,
doctrine-wise, to myself. If we fail to rightly divide as God instructs, we end up w/ contradictions, which then leads to confusion. This is where religion thrives in their attempts to twist scripture to suite their belief system. I could provide some comparisons if you'd like. Just let me know.
Lord jesus commanded us to water baptize until he came back though in the Great Commission
The Office of Prophet and Apostle are no longer opened, closed when John passed away
charismaticlady
Active Member
Many people are going to church but are NOT born again of the Spirit. This is what Paul is saying. Once born again of the Spirit you will realize you no longer have any desire to break God's laws or the deeds of the sin nature/flesh. The only way to truly be born again is to repent and surrender to Jesus completely. Once born again of the Spirit there is no stuggle because there is no sin nature. Jesus creates a new nature that can partake of the divine nature of God.
It is disturbing that you agree with the errors of Lions Mane's post about Romans 7. Only verses 5-6 are about a Christian, NOT 14-25. They actually contradict each other. 5-6 is where we are no longer in the flesh (sin nature) but the Spirit as you will also see in Romans 8:9. That is a Christian. Verse 1 shows Paul talking to those who know the Law (which we are no longer under as does 5-6 also). Those depicted in 14-25 are STILL under the law and STILL in the flesh; therefore are NOT Christians. Paul's use of "I" is the same as John's use of "we" in 1 John. It is an eastern Hebrew writing style which differs from the western Greek style and can easily confuse westerners UNLESS they read in context. For instance, Romans 7:1 is the context - the old law. Lion's Mane did not recognize verses 5-6, the only verses that describe the born again Christian experience when we are not under the law but in the Spirit.
Not struggling with sin is NOT legalism. Legalism is keeping laws in your own strength in opposition to your nature. That is not true of a born again Christian because their new nature is in total compliance to God's righteousness. Jesus makes us righteous by taking away our unrighteous nature.
He's half right, but may have not experienced the removal of the sin nature. Back in 1977 (30 years after going to church and believing I was already saved) I acknowledged the need for Jesus to take over, because I was a slave to my sin, and loved it more than trying and failing over and over to keep God's law. Only then did Jesus answer my prayer and removed the sin in my nature. I literally felt a heaviness lift out of my body, and from then on I was totally free of any and all desire to break God's commandments. My desire was to know more and more of God's word. He also gave me many gifts of the Spirit including hearing God's voice.
He's actually talking about those Jews under the law. Paul quotes one commandment - coveting. It is the only commandment that cannot be seen by others, so instead of appearing totally righteous, Paul spoke of the only hidden sin that makes us totally guilty of breaking God's laws. Once born again of the Spirit, even coveting is a thing of the past. We realize that there is nothing we can take with us to heaven.
We do not have a double nature. Jesus either took away our sin, circumcising us without hands, and throwing away the foreskin. Or we only know about Jesus, but He does not dwell within us. One or the other - not both. It appears to be both to someone who hasn't experienced being born again of the Spirit, but has the knowledge that we must be born again or we are not saved.
charismaticlady
Active Member
Just as Paul's writings are for the Jews, Peter's are for us Gentiles. We are both spiritual Israel.
You speak of liberty, but liberty from what? The law, or SIN?
The law showed us the sin in our old man. Not having sin in our nature is the only reason we are not under the law. It is not necessary to be told not to do something we have no desire to do.
charismaticlady
Active Member
We are already in the period of falling away. The Laodecian Church age. It started with the false doctrines of the Reformation. "You have a name/reputation that you are alive, but you are dead."
The doctrines that came out of the Reformation are what Lion's Mane and you have swallowed like Kool-Aid.
charismaticlady
Active Member
But there are still people experiencing the gift of prophecy today. Do you, at least, believe that?
Victoria
Active Member
I hear what you're saying about the Great Commission being for us today. But help me walk through a logic puzzle in 1 Corinthians 1. If Paul was operating under the command of Matthew 28, where Jesus says to go & baptize all nations, why would Paul specifically say in verse 17, 'For Christ sent me not to baptize'? If he were under the Great Commission, wouldn't saying that be a direct admission of disobedience to Jesus?
Victoria
Active Member
I agree that many in church are not saved, but the evidence of salvation isn't the disappearance of temptation, it's the possession of Christ's righteousness. By claiming the sin nature is gone, you're calling Paul a liar in Romans 7. We don't overcome the flesh by pretending it isn't there, we reckon it dead by faith & walk in the Spirit.
We aren't born again into the kingdom, we're baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ the moment we believe (1 Corinthians 12:13). Salvation today isn't based on surrendering or commitment, which can become a work, but on trusting exclusively in the finished work of the Cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30).
If salvation depends on the quality of our surrender or the total absence of desire for sin, then salvation is maintained by human effort. Our standing before God is based on Christ's performance, not the disappearance of our carnal desires (Ephesians 2:8-9).
If you truly have no desire to sin, then you're the first person since Jesus Christ to achieve it, & Paul, who called himself the 'chief of sinners' (1 Timothy 1:15) in the present tense late in his life, clearly didn't reach your level of perfection.
Being 'not in the flesh' is our position in Christ's court, not our physical reality in this world. If we were physically 'not in the flesh,' we wouldn't need to wait for the 'redemption of our body' in Romans 8:23. Why would you groan for the redemption of your body if your sin nature was already gone?
You say the sin nature was removed in 1977. If that were true, why did Paul say in Romans 8:23 that even we who have the firstfruits of the Spirit groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body? If your sin nature is gone, your body is redeemed. If your body is redeemed, why do you still age, & why will that body eventually see corruption? The removal of the 'body of sin' is a future event at the resurrection.
I appreciate your testimony of a changed life. However, the Bible describes the Christian life as a warfare. We cannot have a war if one side has been completely removed. In Galatians 5, Paul tells the Spirit-filled believers that the flesh lusteth against the Spirit. If you don't feel that lust/desire, you aren't describing the Christian life Paul wrote about, you're describing a state of perfection that the Bible says is impossible this side of glory.
By claiming you have no sin nature, you're essentially saying you no longer need the Advocacy of Christ or the daily grace Paul speaks of. But 1 John 1:8 is clear: 'If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves.' I’d rather trust what Paul says about my wretched flesh (Romans 7:24) & Christ’s sufficient grace than trust my own feelings of being sinless.
Here's the contradiction in your argument:
If the 'new nature' makes coveting impossible, why does Paul spend so much time in his epistles warning saved members of the Body of Christ against it? In Ephesians 5:3, he tells the saints that covetousness should not even be named among them. If they were incapable of it, his warning would be a waste of ink.
You're right about the spiritual circumcision of Colossians 2, but you’re missing the 'why.' That circumcision separates our identity from our flesh so that our fleshly sins don't condemn us. It doesn't vaporize the fleshly desires, it just means we're no longer 'in the flesh' legally before God, even though we still live 'in the flesh' physically (Galatians 2:20).
To say a believer has no struggle isn't a sign of being born again, it’s a denial of the very warfare Paul describes in Galatians 5:17. If we have no struggle, we aren't in the fight. The struggle is actually the greatest evidence that the Spirit is present, resisting the flesh that is still very much there.
You say Peter is for Gentiles, but Paul says in Galatians 2:8 that the apostleship of the circumcision was for Peter. If you place yourself in Peter's audience, you're following doctrine for Israel. I place myself in Paul's audience b/c he's the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13) & his letters are the operating manual for the Body of Christ today.
If we truly have no desire to sin, why does Paul warn the Galatians, who were born of the Spirit, to walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:16)? If the lust weren't there, there would be nothing to 'not fulfil.' The very existence of Paul’s warnings proves that the believer still has a nature capable of desiring sin.
Calling the church 'Spiritual Israel' is a tradition, but it’s not in Paul’s letters. Paul says we are a 'new creature' where there is 'neither Jew nor Greek.' If we're Israel, we have a King & a Law. If we're the Body, we have a Head & Grace. You're trying to live in a future kingdom reality while we're still in a body of death waiting for redemption (Romans 8:23). As I've made mention before, Paul says we'll be in the heavens, not in the kingdom on the earth (Colossians 3:2; Philippians 3:20).
Victoria
Active Member
I appreciate your concern for the state of the church, but I don't see myself in the Laodicean timeline. Revelation is a Jewish book concerning the return of the kingdom. I’m looking at the mystery revealed to Paul. If there is a falling away, it’s because people have moved away from the simple Gospel of Grace & gone back to legalism or signs & wonders that belonged to a different dispensation.
Victoria
Active Member
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
The real question we really have to ask ourselves is: Do we believe Jesus, or man?
charismaticlady
Active Member
I'm not the one calling Paul a liar. You choose to not read Romans chapters one through eight in context. It is one teaching. He is plainly talking about imputed righteousness before the Law (Abraham); how righteousness was given to those under the Law about David by his repentance; why the Law was given Galatians 3:19 SIN; and the difference Jesus coming and dying on the cross for us freed us from not only the Law, but from the sin it produced in us, Romans 6:5-7. And the conclusion of the teaching in chapter eight. "The law of life in Christ has FREED ME FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH!!! In other words, Romans 8:2 freed us from Romans 7:7-25 That is willful ignorance. Don't you know that Jesus is the Creator? 1 John 3:5 says He was manifest to TAKE AWAY OUR SIN, AND IN HIM IS NO SIN. He didn't leave the desire to sin in us? NO! He cleansed us from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS!!! What good is that if He left us like Adam, with only his willpower to choose to obey or not. Jesus puts His Own Powerful Spirit in us, that overpowers the desire to sin in our conscience. Even in chapter one Paul says, 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Your false teachers of defeatism and blasphemy against Jesus as the Christ, teach you that you still have the sin nature in you from Adam. Or that you have two natures leaving the "old man" still in you alive and well! We still have free will, but Paul says, why sin if you don't have to? Romans 6:4.
Romans 6:17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Again, false teachers claiming our righteousness cannot be real, but only an invisibility cloak to hide the sin underneath. Let's see if you have the desire to sin that I was freed from on Feb. 9, 1977. Galatians 5:19-21 "19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Again, another false teaching that our body is our sin nature. NO! Our body is just like a floppy puppet that only comes to life by the spirit and soul which is what makes up our nature - the puppet masters. The spirit is our mind Romans 7:25, and our soul is our conscience, either filled with the devil, or with the Holy Spirit. 1 John 3:21-24. Our nature is our inner being, not the outer shell. That is why our body is not transformed during our lifetime. Only our inner being, our nature that is either full of willful sin, or righteousness.
Galatians 5:17 the "spirit" is the same as Romans 7;25 where the mind of our old nature fights against the flesh (the sin nature, not our body) in Romans 7:25. It is not the Holy Spirit, otherwise, they would be walking in the Spirit. That is why our spirit and soul must be born again now. It is not our body that makes us sin, but our nature. We have the mind of Christ, not sin. 1 Corinthians 2:16.
Yes, our body grows old, but we are responsible to purify ourselves and to keep ourselves. Why? Because of false teachers of demons trying to convince us we still belong to the devil and must fight him daily. But as for myself, Satan cannot touch me. 1 John 5:18.
In that section, Paul is teaching that the Law is holy. Period! There is nothing wrong about the Laws of God.
Even though it shows us our sin, the sin was already there and why we needed an Advocate to free us from the law of sin and death. 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. (Period) And if anyone sins, we (mankind) have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
This is not saying that a Christian will sin again. NO! We have been freed from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL! How much? ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL! While we were yet sinners, Jesus died for us and is mankind's Advocate. False teachers really do make you look for any excuse to sin. That's why what they teach are called doctrines of demons, like: "That circumcision separates our identity from our flesh so that our fleshly sins don't condemn us." Wow! Straight out of a demon's handbook!
Go back to the Bible and stop being a blaspheming denominationalist! SIN CONDEMNS US. Jesus came and died to TAKE AWAY OUR SIN, NOT LEAVE US IN IT! Our righteousness is real, not a fairy tale. Fairies are demons, by the way.
There are two types of sins. Sins unto death. And sins NOT unto death. Paul only talks about sins unto death (the wages of sin is death). We MUST go to Peter in order to be holy as Jesus taught, and not just righteous. Revelation 22:11. Holy is perfection. Jesus told us to be holy as I am holy. Both Peter and Paul wrote SCRIPTURE for the whole world, both Jew and Gentile. Romans 1:16-17, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. Paul said, "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Peter teaches on how to become complete. Scoff if you like, but you are disobeying Jesus, and Paul.
It is not just "tradition" to include Gentiles into Israel. It is Scripture. Romans 11. Gentiles are Israel's "other offspring," in Revelation 12:17.
charismaticlady
Active Member
It was Paul who taught on the gifts of the Spirit, and the whole New Covenant is ONE dispensation in itself. What church age represents you? I am a Philadelphian which includes all of our New Covenant, including signs and wonders. And I have many. Jesus said to Sardis, "You have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." Why? The doctrines of demons, like, sin doesn't condemn us. One reformationist church father even wrote, "even if you commit murder and adultery 1,000 times a day, it would not separate you from God." What blasphemy! It is what you wrote yourself when you said you believe that "fleshly sins do not condemn us." That is a doctrine leading to DEATH. And you are teaching that of forums read by the whole world. So are you from Sardis? Who doesn't believe in Peter's writings? Philadelphians do as they keep all of God's word, and so do those of Thyatira.
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