How do the unsaved suffer forever in hell without the Tree of Life?

[Angelo]

There’s no doubt that Christians go wrong, make mistakes, sin, even deliberately. The Bible affirms this at every turn. In fact, it teaches that all people are guilty of sin—Christians and non-Christians alike. And if anyone denies this, he is a liar

Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives.
Romans 3:23

If we say (claim) we have not sinned, we contradict His Word and make Him out to be false and a liar, and His Word is not in us [the divine message of the Gospel is not in our hearts].
1 John 1:10.

Indeed, the purpose of Jesus’ coming, and the heart of His present ministry, is to save lost sinners. Jesus came to heal the sick, not the healthy.

But when Jesus heard it, He replied, Those who are strong and well (healthy) have no need of a physician, but those who are weak and sick.
13 Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy [that is, readiness to help those in trouble] and not sacrifice and sacrificial victims. For I came not to call and invite [to repentance] the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God), but sinners (the erring ones and all those not free from sin).
Mtt. 9:12–13.

For this reason, Christians are the first to admit they are sinners. That’s how they came to Christ, accepting His invitation to all sinners to come to Him. Christianity even encourages its members to confess their sins “to one another”

Confess to one another therefore your faults (your slips, your false steps, your offenses, your sins) and pray [also] for one another, that you may be healed and restored [to a spiritual tone of mind and heart]. The earnest (heartfelt, continued) prayer of a righteous man makes tremendous power available [dynamic in its working].
James 5:16

 

[charismaticlady]

Sinless perfection is heresy

This is also for @Angelo and @Victoria

Who is it that teaches sinless perfection? I don't, because it doesn't happen all at once. That is the end product that Jesus told us to be before we die and remain in the state we are finally in. Revelation 22:11 " 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” Sinless is righteous; perfect is holy. Romans 6 and 1 John 3 are about righteousness. 2 Peter 1:2-11 is about holiness.

But Jesus taking away the sins unto death from our nature is what 1 John 3:4-5 is talking about. Lawlessness is sins unto death. It is called making us righteous as the rest of the chapter proclaims. But JF, Jesus doesn't stop there! Then comes the long process of He, Himself, making us perfect by maturing each fruit of the Spirit one at a time as long as we let Him by abiding in Him. "You shall be made perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." Peter says, "Be holy, and I am holy." Jesus does it all as the Author and Finisher of our faith - from faith to faith, Romans 1:16-17. Revelation 22:11 " 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is just the beginning...

I've heard your statement quite often, but always from a denomination that judges Christianity by human experience, believing what the demons taught the church father of that denomination. All denominationalists seem to believe the heresy that their spider tells them against the supernatural power of God in the nature of the born again of the Spirit. If the spider can teach their flies the lie that a Christian will always sin based on the pre-born again scripture 1 John 1:8, they can get you to stay filthy until you die, then you'll be damned and they can eat you.

9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

If you really are a Jesus Fan then believe what He says and stop being a fly.

 

[charismaticlady]

There’s no doubt that Christians go wrong, make mistakes, sin, even deliberately. The Bible affirms this at every turn. In fact, it teaches that all people are guilty of sin—Christians and non-Christians alike. And if anyone denies this, he is a liar

Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives.
Romans 3:23

If we say (claim) we have not sinned, we contradict His Word and make Him out to be false and a liar, and His Word is not in us [the divine message of the Gospel is not in our hearts].
1 John 1:10.

Indeed, the purpose of Jesus’ coming, and the heart of His present ministry, is to save lost sinners. Jesus came to heal the sick, not the healthy.

But when Jesus heard it, He replied, Those who are strong and well (healthy) have no need of a physician, but those who are weak and sick.
13 Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy [that is, readiness to help those in trouble] and not sacrifice and sacrificial victims. For I came not to call and invite [to repentance] the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God), but sinners (the erring ones and all those not free from sin).
Mtt. 9:12–13.

For this reason, Christians are the first to admit they are sinners. That’s how they came to Christ, accepting His invitation to all sinners to come to Him. Christianity even encourages its members to confess their sins “to one another”

Confess to one another therefore your faults (your slips, your false steps, your offenses, your sins) and pray [also] for one another, that you may be healed and restored [to a spiritual tone of mind and heart]. The earnest (heartfelt, continued) prayer of a righteous man makes tremendous power available [dynamic in its working].
James 5:16

I see you believe the lie that even those who are born again are slaves of sin. That is not the truth that will set us free.

John 8:31-2, 34-36
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Free from what, Angelo?

 

[Victoria]

This is also for @Angelo and @Victoria

Who is it that teaches sinless perfection? I don't, because it doesn't happen all at once. That is the end product that Jesus told us to be before we die and remain in the state we are finally in. Revelation 22:11 " 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” Sinless is righteous; perfect is holy. Romans 6 and 1 John 3 are about righteousness. 2 Peter 1:2-11 is about holiness.

But Jesus taking away the sins unto death from our nature is what 1 John 3:4-5 is talking about. Lawlessness is sins unto death. It is called making us righteous as the rest of the chapter proclaims. But JF, Jesus doesn't stop there! Then comes the long process of He, Himself, making us perfect by maturing each fruit of the Spirit one at a time as long as we let Him by abiding in Him. "You shall be made perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." Peter says, "Be holy, and I am holy." Jesus does it all as the Author and Finisher of our faith - from faith to faith, Romans 1:16-17. Revelation 22:11 " 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is just the beginning...

I've heard your statement quite often, but always from a denomination that judges Christianity by human experience, believing what the demons taught the church father of that denomination. All denominationalists seem to believe the heresy that their spider tells them against the supernatural power of God in the nature of the born again of the Spirit. If the spider can teach their flies the lie that a Christian will always sin based on the pre-born again scripture 1 John 1:8, they can get you to stay filthy until you die, then you'll be damned and they can eat you.

9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

If you really are a Jesus Fan then believe what He says and stop being a fly.

Greetings charismaticlady,

All believers are presently awaiting the adoption the apostle Paul speaks of in Romans 8:23. Until we receive our glorified bodies (Philippians 3:20-21), there's absolutely no way possible we'll ever be perfectly sinless like Christ Jesus in this life. No Christian, no matter how mature in their walk, no matter how sanctified they believe themselves to be, could honestly say that not only are they perfect enough to believe themselves to be sinless, they also cannot honestly say they honor God in their every word, thought & deed. To believe otherwise screams spiritual pride/self-righteousness.

This is why most Christians stand at odds w/ you on this. I pray you'll please consider just how dangerous this doctrine is.
It's exactly what you're implying, sinless perfection... sinless progression achieved over time in this life.

The Dangerous Doctrine of Sinless Perfection

 

[Victoria]

(Edit)

The term I used earlier (sinless progression) there is a bit of an oxymoron, my apologies.
I got the following two terms mixed:

1. Sinless Perfection: The claim that you have reached a state where you no longer sin.
2. Progressive Sanctification: The mainstream view that you are gradually sinning less as you grow.

I want to clarify my last point b/c I think I muddied the waters w/ my phrasing. When I mentioned sinless progression,
what I meant was the dangerous idea that a believer can gradually grow out of their sin nature in this life.

To be clear: as a Mid-Acts Dispensationalist, I believe we grow in grace & knowledge, but we never progress into a state of sinlessness. That only happens at the resurrection of the body (Romans 8:23). Claiming we can achieve a sinless state through growth is just perfectionism by another name, & it overlooks the reality of the flesh that Paul warns us about. The physical vessel we inhabit is currently unchanged & still subject to the "law of sin" in our members (Romans 7:23).

 

[charismaticlady]

Greetings charismaticlady,

All believers are presently awaiting the adoption the apostle Paul speaks of in Romans 8:23. Until we receive our glorified bodies (Philippians 3:20-21), there's absolutely no way possible we'll ever be perfectly sinless like Christ Jesus in this life. No Christian, no matter how mature in their walk, no matter how sanctified they believe themselves to be, could honestly say that not only are they perfect enough to believe themselves to be sinless, they also cannot honestly say they honor God in their every word, thought & deed. To believe otherwise screams spiritual pride/self-righteousness.

This is why most Christians stand at odds w/ you on this. I pray you'll please consider just how dangerous this doctrine is.
It's exactly what you're implying, sinless perfection... sinless progression achieved over time in this life.

The Dangerous Doctrine of Sinless Perfection

No one can in their own strength, no matter how much they study the Bible to know God's laws. That is the reason Jesus died for us to take away the sin in our nature - our spirit and soul. It is our nature that causes our body to be righteous or a slave to sin, and why Jesus said, "you must be born again.". Our body does not sin in itself. It is only slowly dying because of Adam's sin unto death That is the reason it is not being born again now. It doesn't have to be to be in order to be righteous or holy as it only responds to our nature, the puppet masters.

Our nature is what Paul calls "the flesh" or "the old man." The old man is crucified and we become free from sin. That is only talking about the mortal sins unto death, not the imperfections from immature fruit that matures over time. The apostles do not teach what you believe. Peter even says about those who have abided in Jesus throughout their lives and IN this lifetime,

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

This is why Peter could say about being like Jesus, "be holy as I am holy."

These are the lies you've swallowed instead of what the apostles taught:
You will always sin while in these bodies. Romans 8:10
It is a lie to say you do not sin. A misinterpretation of 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10.
Jesus blood only covers our sin, not takes it away from our nature. Romans 4:7
We have a sin nature that hasn't been touched by the blood of Jesus. Romans 7:14-25
Our bodies are the source of sin. Romans 8:10

The real question is, are you born again? Not everyone going to a church has experienced being filled to overflowing with the Spirit of Christ. Romans 8:9