How do the unsaved suffer forever in hell without the Tree of Life?

1 John 1:5-10 [NASB]
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and [yet] walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
1 John 3:4-10 [NASB]
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who remains in Him sins [continually;] no one who sins [continually] has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin [continually,] because he has been born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother [and sister.]

1 John 3:9 is talking about this type of sin: walking in darkness and claiming that we have no sin.
1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are not describing the Christian walk. Verse 7 is. And verse 9 is how to become a Christian.

As for 1 John 3:9, it refers back to 1 John 3:4 lawlessness, the context of the chapter. A Christian has no desire to commit lawlessness, because verse 5 says Jesus was manifest to take away our sin (out of our nature), and in Him is no sin.

Romans 8:29 shows that we are being conformed to the image of Christ. Was it a lie that Jesus did not sin? If we are cleansed of all unrighteousness, is it a sin to agree?
 
Q. “How do the unsaved suffer forever in hell without the Tree of Life?”

A.the Second Death!

Luke 16:22-24 [NASB]
"Now it happened that the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's arms; and the rich man also died and was buried. "And in Hades he raised his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his arms. "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus, so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

Revelation 21:6-8 [NASB]
Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give [water] to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life, without cost. The one who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. But for the cowardly, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and sexually immoral persons, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part [will be] in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Luke 16:22-24 is before the judgment, and the second death.
 
How do you figure? Works is going against your nature to complete a law. But if Jesus has changed your desire to righteousness there is no struggle to walk in the Spirit. You have a clean nature. So your reasoning is way off. Why? Is keeping the commandments hard for you making it a work? Only someone who is not born again of the Spirit would struggle to keep the commandments of God.
Jesus has redeemed my soul so I have a new nature. This is true. Justification by Jesus, by His grace, when I believed on Him. Keeping His commandments isn't linked to my eternal status. I strive to keep His commands, but can never do that perfectly. Hence the need for His justification and atonement, and not my efforts.

Assuming I am not born again is really off! You cannot know that. Just as I can't know that about you, particularly in this forum!

Being born again is a free gift, not by works, imputed righteousness. All a lost person does is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, a one time event, and they have eternal life. If they struggle in their faith after conversion.. they still have eternal life. They are born into a family without conditions on their behaviour. Good works in return to God, will give rewards.. but are not binding on eternal salvation. Otherwise we would all be doomed.
 
Yes, death. Not eternal life in hell after being judged.
"And in Hades he raised his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his arms. "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus, so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'" - Luke 16

... that is more than just "death".
 
Jesus has redeemed my soul so I have a new nature. This is true. Justification by Jesus, by His grace, when I believed on Him. Keeping His commandments isn't linked to my eternal status. I strive to keep His commands, but can never do that perfectly. Hence the need for His justification and atonement, and not my efforts.

Assuming I am not born again is really off! You cannot know that. Just as I can't know that about you, particularly in this forum!

Being born again is a free gift, not by works, imputed righteousness. All a lost person does is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, a one time event, and they have eternal life. If they struggle in their faith after conversion.. they still have eternal life. They are born into a family without conditions on their behaviour. Good works in return to God, will give rewards.. but are not binding on eternal salvation. Otherwise we would all be doomed.
Wow. Keeping the commandments should not be having to "strive." And it has everything to do with salvation. But HOW is the question. Either against your sin nature, or in line with your new nature. Against your nature is having to keep the letter of the law with only your will power fighting against a sin nature like the OT Jews as illustrated in Romans 7:14-25 who were still in the flesh (carnal sin nature). But in line with your new nature is easy and natural as you walk in the Spirit, naturally hating what God hates and loving righteousness like Jesus does. That is what it means to not be UNDER the law. In the Spirit we walk in the power of God with no striving at all. The laws are not gone, they are now written on our hearts and are a natural part of true born again Christians.

Think of it this way. Justification is not "just as if I never sinned." It is "just as if ADAM never sinned." See the difference in potential? Because of the blood of Jesus all we need to do is do what comes naturally to your conscience/heart where the laws of God are written in the born again by the Holy Spirit.

1 John 3:21-22 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

"Striving" is difficult. Jesus has made His yoke easy. The doctrine you have been taught is the opposite of the gospel. The gospel is the power of God in you. Don't be fooled by doctrines of demons who want you to think keeping God's commandments is not necessary and are gone giving us a license to sin. There are whole denominations that do not teach anything about the Spirit of Christ. They are the ones with the lie that we will always sin until we die and our body is resurrected and changed. Sin has nothing to do with our body, and everything to do with a new inner nature that controls our bodies. Not everyone going to church and on these forums is actually born again. I know! I wasn't born again for the first 30 years of going to church, and not one of my prayers were ever answered! When I finally was, the difference was life changing and 100% of my prayers are answered. I no longer struggled to be righteous, I WAS righteous, 1 John 3:7 "Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous." My mind was changed in an instant and my desire to sin was completely gone. You've only been taught imputed righteousness like Abraham who believed God's promise even though it seemed impossible and it was counted to him as righteousness. The same with King David. Neither one had a clean nature, but God overlooked their sins because of their blood sacrifices and their faith. Jesus made the way for actual righteousness by taking away the sin in our nature.

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Romans 7:5-6 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by (the old man/sin nature), so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Galatians 5:19-21 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
Last edited:
Wow. Keeping the commandments should not be having to "strive."
Which commandments should we keep? Can you see the DANGER when a flawed human sets themselves up as the JUDGE to decide that a commandment of GOD can be discarded? Can you see the folly in attempting to follow all 613 commandments?

Can I eat shellfish?
Shave my beard?
Wear blended cloth?
Neglect to travel to Jerusalem 3 times per year?
Must I circumcise my son?
Must I choose my daughter's husband?
Must I stone my adulterous neighbor?

Paul said that only DEATH comes from the Law.
Jesus gave only two commandments that fulfilled "the Law and the Prophets" (Love God & love people.) and SALVATION does not come from the Law (it comes from Christ).
 
Which commandments should we keep? Can you see the DANGER when a flawed human sets themselves up as the JUDGE to decide that a commandment of GOD can be discarded? Can you see the folly in attempting to follow all 613 commandments?

Can I eat shellfish?
Shave my beard?
Wear blended cloth?
Neglect to travel to Jerusalem 3 times per year?
Must I circumcise my son?
Must I choose my daughter's husband?
Must I stone my adulterous neighbor?

Paul said that only DEATH comes from the Law.
Jesus gave only two commandments that fulfilled "the Law and the Prophets" (Love God & love people.) and SALVATION does not come from the Law (it comes from Christ).
I see you didn't read my post, so go back and actually read it so you sound informed at least. You read the first line and think you know me?

We must follow the laws written on our hearts. That's all. They are put there by Jesus. So follow your conscience. That has to do with the laws of God, the Ten Commandments. God's love will flow through us.

Once you've actually read the entire post, then post and we can discuss the meat of my post.
 
Last edited:
I see you didn't read my post, so go back and actually read it so you sound informed at least. You read the first line and think you know me?
I am sorry for butting in.
Carry on without me.
 
Last edited:
Wow. Keeping the commandments should not be having to "strive." And it has everything to do with salvation. But HOW is the question. Either against your sin nature, or in line with your new nature. Against your nature is having to keep the letter of the law with only your will power fighting against a sin nature like the OT Jews as illustrated in Romans 7:14-25 who were still in the flesh (carnal sin nature). But in line with your new nature is easy and natural as you walk in the Spirit, naturally hating what God hates and loving righteousness like Jesus does. That is what it means to not be UNDER the law. In the Spirit we walk in the power of God with no striving at all. The laws are not gone, they are now written on our hearts and are a natural part of true born again Christians.

Think of it this way. Justification is not "just as if I never sinned." It is "just as if ADAM never sinned." See the difference in potential? Because of the blood of Jesus all we need to do is do what comes naturally to your conscience/heart where the laws of God are written in the born again by the Holy Spirit.

1 John 3:21-22 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

"Striving" is difficult. Jesus has made His yoke easy. The doctrine you have been taught is the opposite of the gospel. The gospel is the power of God in you. Don't be fooled by doctrines of demons who want you to think keeping God's commandments is not necessary and are gone giving us a license to sin. There are whole denominations that do not teach anything about the Spirit of Christ. They are the ones with the lie that we will always sin until we die and our body is resurrected and changed. Sin has nothing to do with our body, and everything to do with a new inner nature that controls our bodies. Not everyone going to church and on these forums is actually born again. I know! I wasn't born again for the first 30 years of going to church, and not one of my prayers were ever answered! When I finally was, the difference was life changing and 100% of my prayers are answered. I no longer struggled to be righteous, I WAS righteous, 1 John 3:7 "Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous." My mind was changed in an instant and my desire to sin was completely gone. You've only been taught imputed righteousness like Abraham who believed God's promise even though it seemed impossible and it was counted to him as righteousness. The same with King David. Neither one had a clean nature, but God overlooked their sins because of their blood sacrifices and their faith. Jesus made the way for actual righteousness by taking away the sin in our nature.

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Romans 7:5-6 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by (the old man/sin nature), so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Galatians 5:19-21 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
We still have the flesh, which has the principle of sin remaining, and we will deal with that until death or the Rapture
 
Wow. Keeping the commandments should not be having to "strive." And it has everything to do with salvation. But HOW is the question. Either against your sin nature, or in line with your new nature. Against your nature is having to keep the letter of the law with only your will power fighting against a sin nature like the OT Jews as illustrated in Romans 7:14-25 who were still in the flesh (carnal sin nature). But in line with your new nature is easy and natural as you walk in the Spirit, naturally hating what God hates and loving righteousness like Jesus does. That is what it means to not be UNDER the law. In the Spirit we walk in the power of God with no striving at all. The laws are not gone, they are now written on our hearts and are a natural part of true born again Christians.

Think of it this way. Justification is not "just as if I never sinned." It is "just as if ADAM never sinned." See the difference in potential? Because of the blood of Jesus all we need to do is do what comes naturally to your conscience/heart where the laws of God are written in the born again by the Holy Spirit.

1 John 3:21-22 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

"Striving" is difficult. Jesus has made His yoke easy. The doctrine you have been taught is the opposite of the gospel. The gospel is the power of God in you. Don't be fooled by doctrines of demons who want you to think keeping God's commandments is not necessary and are gone giving us a license to sin. There are whole denominations that do not teach anything about the Spirit of Christ. They are the ones with the lie that we will always sin until we die and our body is resurrected and changed. Sin has nothing to do with our body, and everything to do with a new inner nature that controls our bodies. Not everyone going to church and on these forums is actually born again. I know! I wasn't born again for the first 30 years of going to church, and not one of my prayers were ever answered! When I finally was, the difference was life changing and 100% of my prayers are answered. I no longer struggled to be righteous, I WAS righteous, 1 John 3:7 "Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous." My mind was changed in an instant and my desire to sin was completely gone. You've only been taught imputed righteousness like Abraham who believed God's promise even though it seemed impossible and it was counted to him as righteousness. The same with King David. Neither one had a clean nature, but God overlooked their sins because of their blood sacrifices and their faith. Jesus made the way for actual righteousness by taking away the sin in our nature.

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Romans 7:5-6 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by (the old man/sin nature), so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Galatians 5:19-21 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The commandments are not gone. That is the way we serve Jesus. Having already been converted so we can serve Him. Not the Mosaic and levitical commandments..but service in the New Testament church.
 
I see you didn't read my post, so go back and actually read it so you sound informed at least. You read the first line and think you know me?

We must follow the laws written on our hearts. That's all. They are put there by Jesus. So follow your conscience. That has to do with the laws of God, the Ten Commandments. God's love will flow through us.

Once you've actually read the entire post, then post and we can discuss the meat of my post.
how do you know the rotten human heart s 'laws' were put there by Christ?
For a long time, after having a dream which was Very REAL and vivid, I was positive I'd met Christ...
later on, more than a decade later, I realized, no that was not Christ, though yes, one can
be bamboozled by a being who is not human. How do you think satan gets on
so well in these parts?

The only way to meet Christ is dying to Self, to the needs and wants of this world, and to follow Him.
It doesn't mean being perfect, after all we are still in perishable flesh even if having died to the flesh mind.. It does not mean that the helpless a soul will not stumble... nor that a souls cannot try to understand what God said. ive not felt a drop of love on these forums so I ask since you mentioned a love that can fill a soul. Is the self a bit like the ego basking in that love for its self or does it flow to others, even here on this forum. Sorry but I am sick of posts that deny we are in the flesh and do have trials. Also, all those weird levitical stuff.. .most of it is from a false religion that has existed since before the fall. Christ was in eden, he was with His souls in the OT, and in the NT. Other 'priests' in the OT or elders and their 'laws' were not Christian then or now. Christianity did not materialize at OAD. Christ was doing things for us all along since the fall... and with the Cross, he made it possible for us to go Home to Him. Souls have always been His, in the OT and now. Being saved is certainly not something Moses was unaware of. Human laws and His have always been in Emnity. In the OT, In the NT and now. Nothing is new here.
 
Last edited:
no thanks. God fixed his translation=The New world translation. all others are altered and error filled.
Unfortunately all of them are error filled due to the septuagint, and the corruptions are on purpose, having been so since the septuagint, a planned corruption described and admitted to in the evil aristeas letter that reported back to Ptolemy II. You'd need to be more specific as to what points are not corrupt, and why, in your translation, since all the translations have relied on those oldest scrolls for their base texts and the base texts are what were corrupted. The translations just 'added on'. As for corruption, the kjv is utter sorcery but again, it continues the corruptions of the original texts.

The red is my comments, note this was sent back to Ptolemy into relation to Ptolemy's preparations to " interpret and write down" the hebrew scriptures for his library of alexandria.

"Certain books of the Jewish law with some few others are wanting; for these are composed in Hebrew letters and in the Hebrew tongue, but have been interpreted somewhat carelessly (!!!!) and not according to their true meaning (how would any heathens know that? what???) , according to information supplied by the experts (not anyone sent by God!) , because they have not hitherto received the supervision of royalty." (pagan ptolemy ii!!!)

Just as today, experts seem to control the pastors, all those harvard theology chairs etc., training future pastors to babble corruptions...


@Kiew1, for what it is worth, I find you sincere, and I don't judge you on denomination, since all of them are messed up. We are collected by Him as souls, not in groups or religions, after all. I am generally ignored, so if you do, I get it..and don't take it personally. It's very lonely as you may already know these days, to say anything, much less anything true.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1611.webp
    IMG_1611.webp
    75.2 KB · Views: 1
Last edited:
The commandments are not gone. That is the way we serve Jesus. Having already been converted so we can serve Him. Not the Mosaic and levitical commandments..but service in the New Testament church.
The commandments are not gone for the world of unbelievers. They will be judged by them. But it doesn't seem you know that Jesus takes away the lawless (commandments) sin nature of those who believe and have repented. We don't need the written laws engraved on stone because they are now part of our new nature to be kept naturally. We have a clean nature that is not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in us. But if we do not have the Spirit of Christ, we DO NOT belong to Him.

It was only the Ten Commandments that were the Old Covenant, not the laws on marriage, sorcery and sexual abominations and blood. Those are still in effect for Christians. But ceremonial laws and food laws are not. We keep the Sabbath by the Spirit by abiding in Him, not on the 7th day as in the letter of the law which is part of the Old Covenant, but not the New Covenant. Do you agree or disagree?
 
We still have the flesh, which has the principle of sin remaining, and we will deal with that until death or the Rapture
How do you keep from sinning then if you still have a sin nature? Jesus took mine away and the desire to commit lawless sins unto death. All born again Christians have to deal with is keeping ourselves in the Spirit of Christ as He cleanses us from sins not unto death as he matures the fruit of the Spirit in us. 1 John 1:7. But the sins of the flesh of Galatians 5:19-21 do not tempt us who are born again of the Spirit. True Christians do not have a sin nature anymore. Do you know that?
 
How do you keep from sinning then if you still have a sin nature? Jesus took mine away and the desire to commit lawless sins unto death. All born again Christians have to deal with is keeping ourselves in the Spirit of Christ as He cleanses us from sins not unto death as he matures the fruit of the Spirit in us. 1 John 1:7. But the sins of the flesh of Galatians 5:19-21 do not tempt us who are born again of the Spirit. True Christians do not have a sin nature anymore. Do you know that?
In Romans 7, Paul describes "the flesh" (
1774361304059.gif

) not merely as the physical body, but as an unredeemed, internal principle or capacity susceptible to sin, acting as a "weak instrument" for disobedience. He explains that even when desiring righteousness, the "law of sin" residing in this flesh creates an ongoing battle, leading to the struggle where he does not do the good he wants, but rather the evil he hates.
McCleary Community ChuMcCleary Community Church |rch | +3
 
How do you keep from sinning then if you still have a sin nature? Jesus took mine away and the desire to commit lawless sins unto death. All born again Christians have to deal with is keeping ourselves in the Spirit of Christ as He cleanses us from sins not unto death as he matures the fruit of the Spirit in us. 1 John 1:7. But the sins of the flesh of Galatians 5:19-21 do not tempt us who are born again of the Spirit. True Christians do not have a sin nature anymore. Do you know that?
If we claim to have no sin, nor sin nature, then we are calling God a liar, as John made it quite clear that we still sin
 
Back
Top Bottom