How could Jesus not know?

The Rogue Tomato

Active Member
“But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

Jesus, being fully God and fully man, how could He possibly not know?
 
In context of Matthew's gospel, the Lord's disciples were taken with the splendor of the temple (24:1), but Jesus told them, in effect, not to get too attached to them, because they would all be destroyed (24:2). The disciples then asked Jesus to tell them when these things would happen, and when the end of the age would come (24:3). Jesus did not shrug His shoulders and say, "I don’t know." Instead, Jesus gave many details concerning the last times (24:4ff.). Jesus did not want His disciples to be ignorant of the last times, either, lest they be deceived. While Jesus did not reveal the precise time of His return to His disciples, He did make it clear (not just here, but elsewhere in the gospels and Acts 1) that the end would not come immediately. He described many of the signs that would precede His return to the earth. If the disciples of our Lord listened carefully to the words of the Master, they would know the "season" of His coming. My point in all of this is that if Jesus was ignorant (in the dark) about the end times, how could He be so specific in giving so many details? The point of His teaching in Matthew 24 was to "be ready." Because they did not to know the precise time of the Lord's return they were to be watchful and attentive.

The specific day of His return was not made known to the apostles, nor to the angels. The wise servant is the one who is watching for the Master's return, and who is working for his Master when He returns.

In what sense, then, does the Son not "know" about the "hour" of the Lord's return? In the Gospel of John, Jesus repeatedly states that He will not act independently of the Father. As in His temptation, Jesus refuses to act independently of the Father. This is a part of His submission to the Father (see, for example, John 8:28; 12:49-50; 14:31). Jesus speaks and acts only as the Father has directed and instructed Him.

Now let us consider the term rendered "know" in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32. In the Septuagint -- the Greek translation of the Old Testament -- the same Greek word oida is used to translate the Hebrew word for "know" in Genesis 18:19:

Genesis 18:19

19 "I have chosen [literally "known"] him, so that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just. Then the Lord will give to Abraham what he promised him."


In Jeremiah 1:5 God's choice of Jeremiah while still in the womb is described by the same Hebrew word for "know," although the Greek word used in the Septuagint is different than oida.

One may also wish to consider the use of oida in Matthew 25:12:

Matthew 25:12

12 But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I do not know you!' The NET Bible


Surely this means something more like, "You are not one of my guests" (i.e. you are not one of my chosen guests), rather than, "I don't have any idea who you are, I've never seen or heard of you before."

It is my opinion that Jesus is using this word "to know" in two different ways in Matthew and Mark. Jesus is saying, on the one hand, that His disciples cannot, should not, and will not "know" the precise day or hour of His coming. On the other hand, Jesus is using the same word (to know) with reference to His submission to the Father in regard to the timing of His return. He is saying, I believe, "It is not my place as the Son to determine or to announce the time of my coming " that is an aspect of My Father's role in the Trinity, as the Father." The bottom line is that the disciples have a fixation on knowing the exact time of our Lord's return. Jesus is saying, in effect, "It is none of your business, and in a sense it is not mine to tell you, either. I will come when it is the Father's time for Me to come. For me to announce the time of my coming in advance is to steal the Father's thunder." It is not that He does not know, or cannot know this day, but that this is not consistent with His role as the Son.

I am sure that some may differ with me on this explanation, but I find it within the boundaries of the use of the term, and within the boundaries of biblical theology.

I think that it is dangerous to conclude that God knows something that the Son does not, when both are God, and both are omniscient.Bible.org

hope this helps !!!
 
It is my opinion that Jesus is using this word "to know" in two different ways in Matthew and Mark. Jesus is saying, on the one hand, that His disciples cannot, should not, and will not "know" the precise day or hour of His coming. On the other hand, Jesus is using the same word (to know) with reference to His submission to the Father in regard to the timing of His return. He is saying, I believe, "It is not my place as the Son to determine or to announce the time of my coming " that is an aspect of My Father's role in the Trinity, as the Father." The bottom line is that the disciples have a fixation on knowing the exact time of our Lord's return. Jesus is saying, in effect, "It is none of your business, and in a sense it is not mine to tell you, either. I will come when it is the Father's time for Me to come. For me to announce the time of my coming in advance is to steal the Father's thunder." It is not that He does not know, or cannot know this day, but that this is not consistent with His role as the Son.

I am sure that some may differ with me on this explanation, but I find it within the boundaries of the use of the term, and within the boundaries of biblical theology.

I think that it is dangerous to conclude that God knows something that the Son does not, when both are God, and both are omniscient.Bible.org

hope this helps !!!

This explanation makes sense to me. I don't know if it's correct, but it makes sense.
 
I don't know. But that doesn't answer my question.

Jesus is the second person of the Triune God, says trinitarianism.

The Triune God doesn’t know.

The God and Father of Jesus knows.

Does Jesus know now what he didn’t know then? I don’t know. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t.
 
No one knows but Jesus His name, that excludes the Father.

Rev 19:12- He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows.

So much for the unitarian god.

Hope this helps !!! :)
 
“But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

Jesus, being fully God and fully man, how could He possibly not know?
Simple. Jesus in his earthly walk did it AS A HUMAN MAN, with all the limitations YOU have as a human. Jesus knew what the Holy SPirit revealed to him, and performed His miracles as the result of the Holy Spirit working THROUGH Him, just like we do.
 
I posted this explanation in a different thread but it is very applicable here.

I'd like to address one of the most common parroted phrase which Christians have been using for millennia now in order to cancel each other. "No one knows the day or the hour". If someone doesn't like someone's opinion about the Second Coming the knee-jerk action is to yell in their face "No one knows the day or the hour". It's like screaming "conspiracy theorist" at someone in order to try and discredit them.

Both Matthew 24 and Mark 13 contain the statement.
[Mat 24:36 LSB] 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
[Mar 13:32 LSB] 32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father [alone].

A definite statement that allows for no other interpretation, right? Or does it? The english translations always include the particular interpretation bias of the translators. You always have to be aware of this. Constantly go back to the text in the original language to examine things for yourselves. But exactly what language was this text written in? As we've always been taught for centuries in Western Christianity, it was obviously written in Greek. However, the Church of the East has their Scriptures in Syriac (Aramaic) and their tradition is that the New Testament was originally written in Aramaic from the start.

Examine the Greek grammar:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/interlinear/mgnt/mat/24/36/
https://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/interlinear/mgnt/mar/13/32/

Notice the word for "know" is "oudeis" and then there is an interesting two word phrase "ei me" being translated as "but". It literally means "not lest if". That does not make sense in the context of what the translators thought so they left out the "if".

However, there is another verse that has very similar grammatical structure. But you wouldn't know it in the english translations.
[1Co 2:2 LSB] 2 For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/interlinear/mgnt/1co/2/2/

What does that even mean? Paul decided to "know nothing"? How is that even possible? There are those same two words in Greek "ei me". "not lest if". Here the english translates the words as "except".

Here the Aramaic gives some clues as to the proper interpretation.
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyz...2&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%

The word used for "know" doesn't just mean in the state of having the knowledge but can have the sense of an omniscient one revealing and making that knowledge known. So Paul is stating that he decided to reveal nothing among them except if it was about Jesus Christ and specifically Him crucified.

Apply that back to Matthew 24 and Mark 13.
But about that day and about that hour no one can reveal it; not the angels in heaven, not the son; except if the Father [allows].

And we can be sure that it is possible to know this information (according to God's plan) later in Matthew 24:43. Jesus tells his followers to stay awake. If the owner of the house had known when the thief would come, he would have been prepared and not had his belongings stolen. That means if they stay awake it IS possible to know at what time this will all happen. But it is according to God's pleasure for this to be revealed to those that are prepared and watching and with a proper understanding of that which was taught through the Scriptures.

So screaming "no one knows the day or the hour" at each other is not at all what Jesus was actually trying to get across.
 
I posted this explanation in a different thread but it is very applicable here.

I'd like to address one of the most common parroted phrase which Christians have been using for millennia now in order to cancel each other. "No one knows the day or the hour". If someone doesn't like someone's opinion about the Second Coming the knee-jerk action is to yell in their face "No one knows the day or the hour". It's like screaming "conspiracy theorist" at someone in order to try and discredit them.

Both Matthew 24 and Mark 13 contain the statement.
[Mat 24:36 LSB] 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
[Mar 13:32 LSB] 32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father [alone].

A definite statement that allows for no other interpretation, right? Or does it? The english translations always include the particular interpretation bias of the translators. You always have to be aware of this. Constantly go back to the text in the original language to examine things for yourselves. But exactly what language was this text written in? As we've always been taught for centuries in Western Christianity, it was obviously written in Greek. However, the Church of the East has their Scriptures in Syriac (Aramaic) and their tradition is that the New Testament was originally written in Aramaic from the start.

Examine the Greek grammar:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/interlinear/mgnt/mat/24/36/
https://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/interlinear/mgnt/mar/13/32/

Notice the word for "know" is "oudeis" and then there is an interesting two word phrase "ei me" being translated as "but". It literally means "not lest if". That does not make sense in the context of what the translators thought so they left out the "if".

However, there is another verse that has very similar grammatical structure. But you wouldn't know it in the english translations.
[1Co 2:2 LSB] 2 For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/interlinear/mgnt/1co/2/2/

What does that even mean? Paul decided to "know nothing"? How is that even possible? There are those same two words in Greek "ei me". "not lest if". Here the english translates the words as "except".

Here the Aramaic gives some clues as to the proper interpretation.
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyz...2&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%

The word used for "know" doesn't just mean in the state of having the knowledge but can have the sense of an omniscient one revealing and making that knowledge known. So Paul is stating that he decided to reveal nothing among them except if it was about Jesus Christ and specifically Him crucified.

Apply that back to Matthew 24 and Mark 13.
But about that day and about that hour no one can reveal it; not the angels in heaven, not the son; except if the Father [allows].

And we can be sure that it is possible to know this information (according to God's plan) later in Matthew 24:43. Jesus tells his followers to stay awake. If the owner of the house had known when the thief would come, he would have been prepared and not had his belongings stolen. That means if they stay awake it IS possible to know at what time this will all happen. But it is according to God's pleasure for this to be revealed to those that are prepared and watching and with a proper understanding of that which was taught through the Scriptures.

So screaming "no one knows the day or the hour" at each other is not at all what Jesus was actually trying to get across.
Well said
 
Simple. Jesus in his earthly walk did it AS A HUMAN MAN, with all the limitations YOU have as a human. Jesus knew what the Holy SPirit revealed to him, and performed His miracles as the result of the Holy Spirit working THROUGH Him, just like we do.

Yes. Jesus is a human person.
 
“But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

Jesus, being fully God and fully man, how could He possibly not know?

He said that he didn’t know and he said who did know.

How could he possibly not know? is a question that you might or might not find an answer to that satisfies you in your natural lifetime. I’ve seen people abandon their faith over a question of this type.

Always remember and never forget that you know what he said and you know (I think) that what he said is true.
 
Deuteronomy 13:3
you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Does God need to find something out as if He already didn't know it?
 
Hey wait a minute, I resemble that remark lol. Did you read my post today ? :)
Yes I did. And it's very clear and I believe very close to the intent Jesus was trying to convey. It's just that I think you put in a thought that I don't think is accurate. I don't think he was telling them that it "was none of their business". I think the main concept is that the revealing of that knowledge is at the sole decision and grace of the Father. This is what you also communicate. But that additional negative aspect I don't was part of this.
 
“But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

Jesus, being fully God and fully man, how could He possibly not know?
see the post below in the topic, "Even in John 1, Jesus is not God"
101G.
 
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