Omniscience is not causative!
His People He foreknew !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
If He predetermined it, then how can he not condone it. To predetermine means to cause it. Theological Determinism is the doctrine that God, being sovereign is the cause of absolutely everything.
Yes.
Yeah you are.
Knowing absolutely everything, past, present and future.
That whole thing about sufficient and efficient causes is a bit of mumbojumbo to me. The word "cause" has meaning. It is something that brings about a specific result. There are some things that God does indeed cause. But everything that God causes, at least in the life of the human being, is limited to the physical. God does not cause anyone to sin and die spiritually. God condones, i.e., God allows, us to sin. He does not cause us to sin. God condoned Adam's sin. That is, God allowed Adam to sin. God did not cause, in any way, Adam to sin.
God has provided a way for us to become saved by Him. He is the reason we believe, but He does not cause us to believe. If we believe in God, God saves us.
There is God's causative will and there is God's permissive will. We must be careful to not confuse the two.
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brightfame52
Active Member
FOREKNOWLEDGE OF HIS PEOPLE
So what does it mean when it says “For whom God foreknow Rom 11:2 ?” “Foreknowledge 1 Pet 1:2” is the Greek word from which we get the word “prognosis.” Prognosis is a judgment made beforehand.
Before the foundation of the world, God made a judgment of his people. God took delight in his people Prov 8:31, in Christ. In eternity, God accepted of his people in Christ his Son [Eph 1:6]. God’s foreknowledge of his people is God’s peculiar, merciful, pleasure in his people.
It is because in the mind and purpose of God, when He chose us in his Son [Eph 1:4], knowing the end of what he would do from the beginning. God’s satisfaction with his people, His foreknowledge of us His everlasting love [Jer 31:3] and favor in us is because in the mind and purpose of God we were conformed to Christ, it was done in Christ.
Rom 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
. Foreknowledge is God “knowing” His people intimately , loving them distinctly, accepting them in Christ, in the mind and purpose of God in eternity. 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
It is this knowledge God did not have of those who will hear these words Matt 7: 23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
So what does it mean when it says “For whom God foreknow Rom 11:2 ?” “Foreknowledge 1 Pet 1:2” is the Greek word from which we get the word “prognosis.” Prognosis is a judgment made beforehand.
Before the foundation of the world, God made a judgment of his people. God took delight in his people Prov 8:31, in Christ. In eternity, God accepted of his people in Christ his Son [Eph 1:6]. God’s foreknowledge of his people is God’s peculiar, merciful, pleasure in his people.
It is because in the mind and purpose of God, when He chose us in his Son [Eph 1:4], knowing the end of what he would do from the beginning. God’s satisfaction with his people, His foreknowledge of us His everlasting love [Jer 31:3] and favor in us is because in the mind and purpose of God we were conformed to Christ, it was done in Christ.
Rom 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
. Foreknowledge is God “knowing” His people intimately , loving them distinctly, accepting them in Christ, in the mind and purpose of God in eternity. 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
It is this knowledge God did not have of those who will hear these words Matt 7: 23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
civic
Active Member
Would you agree whoever caused something to occur is also the responsible party ?
Not necessarily. Depends on the type of cause.
The only way God was involved in the creation of sin was by creating everyone in HIS image, ie, able to be a proper bride for HIM, with a free will. All sin arose from the free will of the creature itself, not in the slightest from HIS will which was for us to chose to become holy and to live with HIM in a heavenly marriage.
Redefining omniscience, foreknowledge, ie, what HE knows:
Sin cannot accrue except by a free will choice to rebel against GOD.
Light cannot create dark.
Good cannot create evil.
GOD cannot cause nor create sinners, even through a surogate..
Suffering and death is the wages of sin, ie, the result of sin, not a consequence of life. Infants in the womb suffer and die, therefore they are sinners BY THEIR FREE WILL.
GOD does not take pleasure in the deaths of anyone: Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take NO PLEASURE in the death of the wicked... yet GOD does only that which gives HIM pleasure so...why would HE create people knowing they would end in hell when He has no desire for them to do so?
Also, HE wants all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4...who WANTS all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. so whether HE will get this want fulfilled or not, HE obviously did NOT create anyone without the possibility for salvation, ie, destined to hell at creation!
All HE had to do to ensure that hell was empty according to HIS pleasures and wants was to not create those whom HE foreknew would end there!!!
Some serious work needs to be done on the re-definition of what HE knows and when...
Omniscience is not taught explicitly in the Bible but is interpreted from the implications of the various verses about HIS knowledge of all things. Such implied doctrines should be hesitantly / cautiously accepted as proofs. NOR should they be accepted over other revealed attributes of GOD such as HIS love and HIS justice.
IF something in our understanding of HIS omniscience negates, or contradicts or even has a hint of the flavour of contradiction of the very clearly taught Divine Attributes of love and justice, it must be taken as temporary until we can find a better understanding that does NOT contradict or seem to contradict these clear revelations.
Dogma should not supersede revelation.
Good. I found it contradictory to say God created all things knowing full well the outcome yet sin took Him by suprise. Or He did intend for it to exist. Ots some kind of creative oppsie.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Those He foreknew are identified named in the book of life of the lamb slain. Gentiles are not included.
God foreknew this people because they are all the ones that He contemplated as saved before He created heaven, earth, and man. He was the One to "write their names in the book of life of the lamb" and then He went about with His plan to bring this people first contemplated in eternity to save them in time.
brightfame52
Active Member
More trusting in the flesh
civic
Active Member
How do you trust in the spirit?
brightfame52
Active Member
You tell me
civic
Active Member
You claimed someone was trusting in the flesh so I asked you how to trust in the spirit .
Why are you deflecting ?
brightfame52
Active Member
I never said anything about trusting in the Spirit. Ask me about what I said, not something that came from your mind
civic
Active Member
Well then tell me what the opposite of trusting in the flesh is
brightfame52
Active Member
Do you understand why I said that to that particular poster ?
