Please give my your explanation of "who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did". What makes you think that is referring to the indwelling Holy Spirit? Or are you one who rejects the difference between the works of the Holy Spirit in working miracles and the works of the Holy Spirit in indwelling the saved, the first which is observable and the second with is not?
He that believes and is not water baptised is saved
- Thread starter 360watt
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It concerns repentance, forgiveness of sin, salvation
The gentiles were considered saved
Can one be saved without being indwelt by the Spirit?
Please consider
The gentiles had clearly received the Spirit and salvation was much involved.
Acts 10:34–43 (LEB) — 34 So Peter opened his mouth and said, “In truth I understand that God is not one who shows partiality, 35 but in every nation the one who fears him and who does what is right is acceptable to him. 36 As for the message that he sent to the sons of Israel, proclaiming the good news of peace through Jesus Christ—this one is Lord of all—37 you know the thing that happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee, after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38 Jesus of Nazareth—how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all the things that he did both in the land of the Judeans and in Jerusalem, whom they also executed by hanging him on a tree. 40 God raised this one up on the third day and granted that he should become visible, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen beforehand by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify solemnly that this one is the one appointed by God as judge of the living and of the dead. 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”
Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”
see John 14:17 below Receiving the Spirit is having the Spirit in you.
Acts 10:47–48 (LEB) — 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for several days.
received the Spirit another reference to having the Spirit in you
Acts 11:13–18 (LEB) — 13 And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house and saying, ‘Send to Joppa and summon Simon, who is also called Peter, 14 who will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’ 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”
Baptized with the Holy Spirit
1 Corinthians 12:13 (LEB) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.
is into the body of Christ
The indwelling of the Spirit places one in the body of Christ
Will you claim one may be in the body of Christ without the Spirit in you?
Acts 15:7–11 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.”
The giving of the Holy Spirit
John 14:16–17 (LEB) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, in order that he may be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it does not see him or know him. You know him, because he resides with you and will be in you.
Note receiving the Spirit here is having the Spirit in you
That is the indwelling.
dwight92070
Active Member
Bezalel and Ezekiel were both saved men. Bezalel was a man from the tribe of Judah and Ezekiel was a priest and a prophet from the tribe of Levi. Try again.
No, of course not. But that isn't what is at issue here. The question is can the Holy Spirit act upon one without saving him; can one be filled with the Holy Spirit and not be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. I say the answer is yes. We know that in the OT there are those who were filled with the Holy Spirit, but we also know that indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a NT, New Covenant, work of the Holy Spirit.
We also know that the Holy Spirit can indeed work on or in the unbeliever. In John 16:4-15 Jesus describes some of the work of the Holy Spirit and some of that work concerns the world including non-believers. Can the Holy Spirit work through non-believers to bring about God's purpose? I say yes. Can the Holy Spirit work in the unsaved? Again, I say yes. Therefore, does the fact that the Gentiles' speaking in tongues, in Acts 10:44-46, indicate that they were indwelt with the Holy Spirit? I say no.
Have you read all that was posted?
The gentiles experience is spoken of in Acts 10, 11, 15
You cannot properly address the issue by limiting the experience to Acts 10:44-46 alone.
Please address properly
Having received the Spirit is evidence the gentiles had been granted repentance unto life
and believed in Christ
These gentiles were baptized into the body
It is the indwelling of the Spirit that places one in the body.
It is overwhelmingly proven this is the indwelling of the Spirit if you consider all the evidence.
Observe also it is not stated they received a work of the spirit but that they received the Spirit.
Were it to be stated they received Christ, would you hold they received only some miracle of Christ?
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You continue to conflate and confuse the filling or the coming upon by the Holy Spirit with the indwelling Holy Spirit. And you conflate and confuse the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit with a gift given by the Holy Spirit. That is a common problem.
It seems that I cannot help you with that. So, there is little for me to do any more here.
No I am not ignoring the evidence. I am rejecting your interpretation of the evidence. The Holy Spirit the Gentiles received that was the same as they have (Acts 10:47) was the Holy Spirit coming upon them to speak in tongues. That was not the indwelling Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit coming upon in Acts 10:47 was the same as the coming upon in Acts 2:4, not the indwelling of Acts 2:38.
I am sorry but you are ignoring the evidence and not addressing it. You are simply making statements based upon assumptions.
You have ignored the evidence of the gentiles forgiveness of sin and salvation. You ignored the receiving of the Spirit which is not just the receiving of some act.
Yes and?
There is no evidence in Acts 10:44-47 of the gentiles' forgiveness of sin and salvation. That is because it isn't there, no matter how many other passages of scripture that you post.
Selah
Active Member
Tongues = languages
Acts 2:1-11 (KJV) 1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
s e l a h
There is no evidence in Acts chapters10,11,15 of the gentiles' forgiveness of sin and salvation prior to Acts 10:47. That is because it isn't there, no matter how you wish to interpret otherwise.
Sorry you are just ignoring text
The gentiles experience is spoken of in Acts 10, 11, 15
You cannot properly address the issue by limiting the experience to Acts 10:44-46 alone.
Please address properly
Before their water baptism
Peter will speak words to the gentiles by which they will be saved
The words are what lead to salvation
The Jews, based only upon the gentiles having received the Spirit concluded the gentiles had been granted repentance unto life.
So we have, apart from the water, seen repentance, life, salvation
The gentiles having believed in Christ were baptized with the Spirit
These gentiles were baptized into the body
It is the indwelling of the Spirit that places one in the body.
It is overwhelmingly proven this is the indwelling of the Spirit if you consider all the evidence.
Observe also it is not stated they received a work of the spirit but that they received the Spirit.
Were it to be stated they received Christ, would you hold they received only some miracle of Christ?
Grace ambassador
Active Member
Precious friend, how about This?:
saved by "faith alone"?
Depends:
"What Saith All The Scriptures"? Rightly Divided!:
"And if by Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise Grace
is no more Grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace:
otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:6 AV)
No more of works? Well, was it before?:
A) God's ( Representation of twelve ) Context :
prophecy / covenants / law With Christ As The Humble Servant,
"minister of the circumcision" and to be future King, on the earth:
John [ the baptizer ], Christ, the 70 sent out, and the twelve, to the
"lost sheep of the house [ 12 tribes ] of Israel", preaching to them,
the gospel of the kingdom
“faith plus works” Scriptural Requirements of this gospel:
1) water baptism "For the remission of sins" (works)
2) keep the law of Moses (works)
3) righteousness Exceeding Pharisees’ (works) (Matthew 5:20 AV)
4) forgive others first, then be forgiven (works) (Matthew 6:14-15 AV)
5) sell all, take up cross, follow Christ (works)
6) endure unto the end (works) (Matthew 24:13 AV)
7) mercy toward others (works) (Matthew 25:34-40 AV)
8) Jews/Hebrews = All the above "mixed with" what, Exactly?
"...we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Let us therefore
fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should
seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word
preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."
(Hebrews 3:19-4:1-2 cp Matthew 7:21-23 AV)
Scripturally Confirmed by "faith without works is dead" to"the twelve tribes of Israel" (James 1:1, 2:17, 20, 26 AV)
gospel of the kingdom
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
And, Exactly What Is It Now?
The Gospel Of The Grace Of God
B) God's Other ( Representation Of One! [ see Ephesians 4:1-6 AV ] ) Context :
Mystery / Grace With Christ As The Risen and Glorified Head Of
His Church, The One Body Of Christ, and Heavenly Minister Of
Reconciliation:
Paul, one apostle to the [ blinded Jews ] and the [ heathen ] Gentiles,
preaching Jesus Christ, According To [ Given By Christ, From Heaven ]
The Revelation of The Mystery:
The Gospel Of The Grace Of God
1) Paul, Saved By Grace And Mercy, far apart from Jerusalem, the twelve
apostles, and their prophecy, covenants, and law, God Committing to
him "The Dispensation Of The Grace Of God" (Ephesians 3:2 AV), With:
2) Paul, the first 'member' of the One Body Of Christ, Baptized By The
One Spirit in Acts Chapter 9, which is:
a) the One New man [ not a woman 'bride' ]
(Ephesians 2:15 cp "man" in Ephesians 4:13 AV), which is:
b) A New 'creation' (2 Corinthians 5:17 AV), and Now:
c) all members after Paul, In God's Dispensation Of Grace, "follow a pattern":
"Howbeit for this cause I obtained Mercy, that in me first
Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern
to them which should hereafter believe on Him to life
everlasting." (1 Timothy 1:16 AV)
+
"Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me."
(1 Corinthians 4:16 AV)
"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."
(1 Corinthians 11:1 AV)
"Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children"
(Ephesians 5:1 AV)
"Brethren, be followers together of me..."
(Philippians 3:17 AV)
3) Two Requirements of The Gospel Of The Grace Of God:
"By Grace Through faith" ( alive! ) Apart from all works, For God's
Eternal Salvation (Ephesians 2:8-10; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4;
4) The 'One Gospel' for Today, In Which God Forbids for another to
be preached, or mixed in, with His Gospel Of The Grace Of God:
"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into
The Grace Of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but
there be some that trouble you, and would pervert The Gospel Of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto
you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
(Galatians 1:6-9 AV)
Lord, I pray that all brothers and sisters are in agreement with your One
Grace Gospel of today, and will not fall under this horrible curse.
Amen.
dwight92070
Active Member
The grace of John Calvin is NO GRACE AT ALL, and it's certainly not the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Also the gospel of the kingdom of God is the same as the gospel of grace. Paul tells us that in Acts 20:24-25
Also the gospel of the kingdom of God is the same as the gospel of grace. Paul tells us that in Acts 20:24-25
Yes
And
Acts 2:32–33 (LEB) — 32 This Jesus God raised up, of which we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of God and having received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out this that you see and hear.
Ezekiel 36:26–27 (LEB) — 26 And I will give a new heart to you, and a new spirit I will give into your inner parts, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh, and I will give to you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will give my spirit into your inner parts, and I will make it so that you will go in my rules, and my regulations you will remember, and you will do them.
