He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes, have you?

Yes. Thats why I know he spoke against people who claimed to have faith. but did nothing afterwords. So you now admit there are people like that?

Who says being baptized is a work of righteousness in order to get saved? You? The Bible certainly makes no such claim.

Water baptism is a work of righteousness..

God commands it, when you obey this, like all of Gods commands. scripture calls it way work of righteousness.

Now if your doing this to get saved. Then you are claiming you have been saved by a work of righteousness which you did.

Paul said it is not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Isn't that one of the reasons that either of us bother to post here?

Do you really think that if someone refuses to be baptized that they will be saved anyway?

We shall find out.

Let me ask you something..... it was a few scant maybe 8 or 9 years ago when over that that other forum that is now gone away
I am sure you will remember the group that was all over me that had me absolutely convinced that I was on the yellow brick road to hell. (I had a different user name then)

There were 10 or 11 of the coC members who convinced me of the fact that I absolutely must be baptized.

Because my one as a baby, of which I still have my signed baptismal certificate was a fake.

I was growing beside myself daily and knew that while every single person in my family for generations back into
the 1600s were likely going to be burning, I had to get my mother and I immersed. Even my ancestor who had been a vicar in the Church of England, and got into a dispute... Over Baptism, I have read... left them and went to Scotland... became Presbyterian..
and came to New England, New York, then finally Virginia where he founded his Presbyterian Church and built it from ground up and everyone in the family from that point forward were Presbyterian.....

So I looked at all churches in the Pittsburgh area that did immersion baptisms. And found that most expected you to join their church. And then I found one not far away . A Baptist. And we went to have a meeting with the Pastor and even got a small bible lesson before we left . He was willing to baptise us but only in front of a full congregation.... Private Eunuch style was out.

And we would not be part of others... It would be only us.

Well, mom did not want to. She was in her 80s at the time and felt uncomfortable doing so....

So then I called on one church of Christ and got no return answer. I called another a couple days later and when I said my mom had
problem with stairs he told me to try yet another one, and they came to the house here for a meeting....
It seemed like it was going to be a go and he would get back to me after he talked to whoever he had to talk to
and days went by so I called.

The others declined us. One problem was that I was not going to leave my church and join them. So the hunt went on.

Finally , my mom thought she wanted to spend a month in FL after Christmas and your friend and mine @Red Baker said if on our way we could make it to his home he would baptize the both of us in his swimming pool.

It never happened because my mother was getting more health problems and we never made the FL trip. We never went anywhere on a vacation after that year at all.

So..... a friend called and told me about another place.... I do not think it was a church.... that had weekly baptisms and you
did not even need to sigh up.... you just went. It could have been for any reason you felt you wanted a baptism so I suppose it
was a generic one? I declined that one.....

Mom continued to get bad over time and then covid hit and then she was very bad..... until death last year.

So it is not exactly for a lack of trying.

I have one last option.... There is a RCC not far from here that does immersed baptisms. I would just have to take the classes and join and then I could have it there.

But a Baptism under deceit would not be valid to God because I would not attend that church once things were finally done.
OR WOULD IT?

It says in the Westminster Catechism of Faith... based off Calvin garbage... that Baptism is to be performed once.
They believe baby is proper because Calvin said it was Proper.

And Presbyterians believe only Ministers or Elders can perform a baptism for it to count.

So.....If Baptism is the outwrd sign of commitment or change in a believer's life, symbolizing their faith and new life in Christ. It represents a public declaration of faith and is seen as a significant act of obedience following salvation.

If involvement as I have been over the years publicly and yes, even on here, does not qualify as a public declaration???

We will soon see cause I am far closer to my end then my beginning.

 

[Jim]

Water baptism is a work of righteousness..

I don't think you even know what a work of righteousness is.

God commands it, when you obey this, like all of Gods commands. scripture calls it way work of righteousness.

So then not stealing is a work of righteousness.

 

[Jim]

We shall find out.

Let me ask you something..... it was a few scant maybe 8 or 9 years ago when over that that other forum that is now gone away
I am sure you will remember the group that was all over me that had me absolutely convinced that I was on the yellow brick road to hell. (I had a different user name then)

There were 10 or 11 of the coC members who convinced me of the fact that I absolutely must be baptized.

I do not proclaim that one absolutely must be baptized to be saved. I believe for me it was required, and it believe that now.

Because my one as a baby, of which I still have my signed baptismal certificate was a fake.

I do not think it was a fake, but I also do not believe that it was the baptism of a repentant believer for the forgiveness of sin and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I was growing beside myself daily and knew that while every single person in my family for generations back into
the 1600s were likely going to be burning, I had to get my mother and I immersed. Even my ancestor who had been a vicar in the Church of England, and got into a dispute... Over Baptism, I have read... left them and went to Scotland... became Presbyterian..
and came to New England, New York, then finally Virginia where he founded his Presbyterian Church and built it from ground up and everyone in the family from that point forward were Presbyterian.....

So I looked at all churches in the Pittsburgh area that did immersion baptisms. And found that most expected you to join their church. And then I found one not far away . A Baptist. And we went to have a meeting with the Pastor and even got a small bible lesson before we left . He was willing to baptise us but only in front of a full congregation.... Private Eunuch style was out.

And we would not be part of others... It would be only us.

Well, mom did not want to. She was in her 80s at the time and felt uncomfortable doing so....

So then I called on one church of Christ and got no return answer. I called another a couple days later and when I said my mom had
problem with stairs he told me to try yet another one, and they came to the house here for a meeting....
It seemed like it was going to be a go and he would get back to me after he talked to whoever he had to talk to
and days went by so I called.

The others declined us. One problem was that I was not going to leave my church and join them. So the hunt went on.

Finally , my mom thought she wanted to spend a month in FL after Christmas and your friend and mine @Red Baker said if on our way we could make it to his home he would baptize the both of us in his swimming pool.

It never happened because my mother was getting more health problems and we never made the FL trip. We never went anywhere on a vacation after that year at all.

So..... a friend called and told me about another place.... I do not think it was a church.... that had weekly baptisms and you
did not even need to sigh up.... you just went. It could have been for any reason you felt you wanted a baptism so I suppose it
was a generic one? I declined that one.....

Mom continued to get bad over time and then covid hit and then she was very bad..... until death last year.

So it is not exactly for a lack of trying.

I have one last option.... There is a RCC not far from here that does immersed baptisms. I would just have to take the classes and join and then I could have it there.

But a Baptism under deceit would not be valid to God because I would not attend that church once things were finally done.
OR WOULD IT?

It says in the Westminster Catechism of Faith... based off Calvin garbage... that Baptism is to be performed once.
They believe baby is proper because Calvin said it was Proper.

And Presbyterians believe only Ministers or Elders can perform a baptism for it to count.

So.....If Baptism is the outwrd sign of commitment or change in a believer's life, symbolizing their faith and new life in Christ. It represents a public declaration of faith and is seen as a significant act of obedience following salvation.

If involvement as I have been over the years publicly and yes, even on here, does not qualify as a public declaration???

We will soon see cause I am far closer to my end then my beginning.

Thank you for that testimonial. I can appreciate fully what you have gone through. I had a similar, but somewhat different experience. My father was raised in a country Methodist family; my mother was raised in a country Christian family. For years we attended the Methodist church. My father became convinced that he and us kids should be baptized, i.e., immersed. We, I and my older sister, were believers in God by that time. The Methodist minister at the church we attended did not argue with my father about that and agreed to make the arrangements to baptize, i.e., immerse, us. However, there was no facility at that church to do so and he never got around to making those arrangements. My father made the necessary arrangements with a local Christian Church minister. We were baptized there but continued attend the Methodist Church for quite a while, but then eventually we began attending the Christain Church and I continued to attend Christian Churches for the rest of my life and do so now.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I don't think you even know what a work of righteousness is.

is this all you have? Just declare you do not think something, You will have to do better than that. especially since I already explained what it was. do you disagree with me that a work of righteousness is obeying Gods command?

So then not stealing is a work of righteousness.

If you are tempted to steal something, and you resist and in the end do not steal. then yes, this would be a work of righteousness. the fact you do not see this just shows that you have some flaws in your thinking

 

[dwight92070]

It is amniotic fluid. It doesn't look like water, it doesn't smell like water. In fact, it often looks like urine, so I am told. It is not water.

There is no reference in all of the Bible to physical birth being referred to as born of water. There is no such reference in all of literature to physical birth as born of water. That is a construct of people like you who refuse to accept the concept of water baptism in soteriology.

You really need to stop making up "facts" when you have done zero research. That is called lying.

The imagery of childbirth and water is referred to in MANY places in literature and history.

The following is from the AI source GROK:

1. Ancient Egyptian Mythology
The god Atum or Ra is often described as rising from the waters of Nun to create the world, a process that parallels birth.

2. Hindu Literature
In Hindu mythology, water is a potent symbol of creation and birth. The god Vishnu emerges from or rests on the primordial waters. The Vishnu Purana depicts the cosmic egg, from which the universe is born, floating on universal waters. This images parallels childbirth, as the embryo-like egg emerges from a watery source, symbolizing the womb of creation.

3.Greek Mythology and Literature
In Hesiod's Theogony, many deities are born from or linked to aquatic regions. Aphrodite, the goddess of love, is born from sea foam. This birth from water symbolizes creation and life, akin to the emergence from a womb-like sea.
The philosopher Empedocles used water as a metaphor for life's origins, from which all things, including living beings, are formed.

4. Mesopotamian Mythology
The universe and the gods are born from the mingling of Tiamat's salty waters with Apsu's fresh waters, a process that evokes childbirth imagery. The chaotic waters represent the womb-like source of all life, a common motif in Mesopotamian literature.

5.In Chinese creation myths, the imagery of life arising from water parallels the idea of birth from a watery womb, reflecting the amniotic fluid of pregnancy.

6. In Modern Literature
In modern literature water, water as a metaphor for childbirth appears in various works. In Tom Morrison's Song of Solomon (1977), water imagery is used to evoke birth and rebirth, with characters journeys tied to rivers and amniotic-like fluids symbolizing transformation. In Gabriel Garcia Marquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude (1967), water and floods are recurring symbols of creation, destruction, and rebirth, with childbirth scenes often linked to water imagery.

Water's universal association with life, the womb, and amniotic fluid makes it a natural symbol across cultures.

End information from Grok.


By the way, amniotic fluid is 98% water, clear, odorless, and a little yellowish. Once again, you have made up "facts" - lies.

Another lie is that those of us who disagree with you have invented these ideas because we don't buy into baptism saving anyone. We don't buy into that because it's not found in the Bible.