Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
I am amazed people read the word and see what Paul said about circumcision. and then think adding water baptism is ok..
He that believes and is not water baptised is saved
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As another has posed the question, "How can you say you believe in Him and then not do what He says?"
Eternally-Grateful
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Eternally-Grateful
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I am amazed people read the word and see what Paul said about baptism and then ignore it all.
Of course you say it all the time.
mailmandan
Active Member
If you truly believe in Him then why in the world would you refuse to be water baptized? (Acts 10:43-47) Yet there are folks who do not truly believe in Him (beyond mere mental assent belief) then they go on to get water baptized anyway, because they are trusting in their baptism for salvation. It's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism. (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18)
If you really think that faith is a gift given to some and not to others, then you really have no understanding of even what faith is. The very idea that faith is a gift aligns you with all the other fallacies of the Reformed Theology.
So your response to their failure is to deny the teaching about baptism.
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Do you understand the meaning of the word "and" in Mark 16:16?
Eternally-Grateful
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What did paul say about baptism?
EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (Where is BAPTISM??)
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (Where is baptism?)
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (No Baptism? )
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (Baptism??, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO Baptism)
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER WHERE IS BAPTISM??)
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS including baptism. BUT GRACE)
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (Like water baptism) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED INCLUDING BAPTISM CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.
mailmandan
Active Member
Yes and the second clause clarifies the first so these are general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized. If he who believes shall be saved (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) then you who believes and is baptized shall be saved as well.
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FreeInChrist
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Ah, common Jim.
Certainly not.... I have repented. Repented of more then you could imagine.
You say...."do you profess that it is not necessary to repent of your sins in order to be forgiven them?
""do you profess that it is not necessary to repent of your sins in order to be forgiven them?" NO
'' Do you really proclaim that you will be forgiven of your sins if you do not repent of them?" Where do you dream this stuff up.
Where did I ever say that. How can you come up with such an idea when we are talking of FAITH/BELIEF?
For your information I have had quite a life of repentance..... starting when I was about 37 years of age and I grew up to grow in God. I am only a couple years younger then you are and I was never able to marry...(that is between Good and me) all was well for 24 years until my life had a hiccup for a season and I stumbled...... UNTIL the Holy Spirit got hold of me and I never looked back for when you get a major conviction by the Holy Spirit you know it. Now all is well.
And FYI... I do have the Holy Spirit alive and well and living in me...............
Yes, you can receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ without undergoing water baptism. Water baptism is an act of obedience, but it is not a requirement for receiving the Holy Spirit
Ephesians 1:13, Paul reminds us that when we believe in Christ, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Are you about to say not to this.... remember....
Cornelius in Acts 10:44–48. While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius and his household even before they were baptized with water.
In in Titus 3:5, we read, “He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.” This shows that it is the Spirit who truly cleanses our hearts.
As to the baptism....
Water baptism is an outward sign of faith and obedience to Christ.
It symbolizes the believer's identification with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
But for me salvation does come through faith alone, with baptism being a significant but not essential step following that faith.
I also said it IS NOT a NECESSARY step to being born again.
Go ahead and pull that Mark 16:16 out again.....
With the reminder that it may have been an add on... though you will never believe that...... but it says
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
What does it say about he who is not baptized?????????????????????????????????????????/
You say " But nowhere in all of the Bible is it ever stated that faith is both a necessary and sufficient condition"
I ask.... where in the bible does it say anything that is a sufficient condition??????/ And what is that sufficient condition???????/
You know what? When I was more of a predestined believer (because your mainline church cannot be wrong can it?) life was much simpler....
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Act 22:10 And I said, 'What shall I do, Lord?' And the Lord said to me, 'Rise, and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all that is appointed for you to do.' And since I could not see because of the brightness of that light, I was led by the hand by those who were with me, and came into Damascus. "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me, and standing by me said to me, 'Brother Saul, receive your sight.' And at that very hour I received my sight and saw him. And he said, 'The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Righteous One and to hear a voice from his mouth; for you will be a witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard. And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'
Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
1Co 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
And that was just what Paul said about baptism.
Was that necessary? Do you really think that you would be saved had you not repented?
It says absolutely nothing about he who is not baptized. Why should it say anything about one who does not believe other than the fact that he shall be damned.
Moreover, it does not say that he that believes but is not baptized shall be saved.
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