He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[Olde Tymer]

.
● 1Pet 3:15b . . Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a
reason of the hope that is in you.

The only requirement there is to always be ready; we are not required to always
give an answer. In point of fact the Lord restricts our responses to sincere folks
rather than any John Que and/or Jane Doe pumpkin that happens along.

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they
may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." (Matt
7:6)

Anyway: the Greek word for "hope" in that passage basically pertains to
expectation, viz: it isn't wishful thinking, nor crossing your fingers; no, this kind of
hope is a confident looking forward to taking possession of something that's already
in the bag, viz: it's an anticipating hope, i.e. it doesn't pray for the best, while in
the back of its mind dreading the worst.

When people are uncertain what the future has in store for them-- if there is even
the slightest anxiety or unease --then of course they can't possibly comply with
Peter's instructions for the simple reason that the hope that is in them, if any, is the
wrong kind of hope.

● Rom 12:12 . . Rejoicing in hope.

People have absolutely no cause for rejoicing when they're unsure of their afterlife
destination, no, but they do have plenty of cause to fear the unknown.
_

 

[dwight92070]

Well let me put it another way...

Yes.. he that believes and is baptized is saved. And there are many verses that have salvation without baptism.

Is that a contradiction?

No, because the opposite of Mark 16:16 is not true.

I counted 213 verses from Acts through Jude, that mention salvation, but don't mention water baptism.
How many verses mention salvation and baptism - only 10, all in Acts.
And NONE of those 10 verses tell us that baptism is required to be saved.
And without exception, in all 10 of those verses, believing preceded water baptism, NOT the other way around.

 

[dwight92070]

Tom, you’re like a broken record. Read the rest of Acts 10. Read all the way to the last verse. Then tell me they were not baptized in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins. You just think by the blink of an eye you can get remission of sins without doing a thing. Come on Tom.

That's like saying, "You think you can get saved without doing a thing?" Of course, that's what the Bible teaches - at least not any outward physical thing. Salvation is repenting and believing in Jesus in your heart - it is an inward spiritual thing.
Titus 3:5 "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit."
And no, washing of regeneration does not refer to water baptism. If it did, then that would contradict the first part of the same verse, which says, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds (baptism) which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, ..." "washing of regeneration" refers to our sins being washed away by the blood of Jesus.
Have you heard the song, "What can wash away my sin, nothing but the blood of Jesus."?
Hebrews 9:14 "how much more will the blood of Jesus Christ, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
Heb. 9:22 "and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."
1 John 1:7 " ... and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin."
Reve. 1:5 " ... to Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood."
Rom. 5:9 " ... having now been justified by His blood."
Eph. 1:7 "In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace ... "
Col. 1:14 " ... in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."
1 Cor. 6:11 "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

 

[dwight92070]

1 Peter 2:9 is a little deeper than that.

In contrast with those who reject Christ and are predestined to "stumble," Peter now describes the chosen people of God. You know the ones, The Elect.

Peter uses language that had been used to describe God's special relationship with Israel. As Israel was, we—Calvinists—are also a chosen race.

We are a spiritual race, in the sense that, in Christ, we share a single spiritual Father. In that same meaning, we are a "holy nation," a specific group of people called out and set apart from all others.

You are obsessed with Calvinism - just like a cultist. We are supposed to be obsessed with Jesus.

 

[dwight92070]

I counted 213 verses from Acts through Jude, that mention salvation, but don't mention water baptism.
How many verses mention salvation and baptism - only 10, all in Acts.
And NONE of those 10 verses tell us that baptism is required to be saved.
And without exception, in all 10 of those verses, believing preceded water baptism, NOT the other way around.

If anyone wants those verses, I would be glad to post them. In fact, the 10 verses do not contradict the 213 verses. They simply add the act of being baptized, which Jesus commanded all who have already been saved. Matthew 28:19
Because Jesus commanded that all believers should be baptized, we can safely assume that where salvation occurs in those other 213 verses, baptism follows afterward, even though it is not mentioned. John 4:1

If baptism was a requirement for salvation, then how many of those 213 verses would have mentioned it.? 100%

 

[360watt]

I counted 213 verses from Acts through Jude, that mention salvation, but don't mention water baptism.
How many verses mention salvation and baptism - only 10, all in Acts.
And NONE of those 10 verses tell us that baptism is required to be saved.
And without exception, in all 10 of those verses, believing preceded water baptism, NOT the other way around.

Yes, a salvaged life after eternal salvation includes water baptism.

But this is 'saved' as in delivered from troubles rather than eternally saved.

 

[dwight92070]

Has anyone noticed that according to Doug and the Church of Christ, it takes two people for one person to get saved? One to be saved - and another to baptize him.
Woe unto those who do not have someone to baptize them - they may be eternally lost, according to Doug and the Church of Christ.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Has anyone noticed that according to Doug and the Church of Christ, it takes two people for one person to get saved? One to be saved - and another to baptize him.
Woe unto those who do not have someone to baptize them - they may be eternally lost, according to Doug and the Church of Christ.

Boy, you said a mouthful.

And woe unto them that are denied a baptism with just two people. The baptizee and the baptizor. The c o C has a small delegation in attendence. If the are even willing.

And dont let them know your baptism status or they will start you on the road to hell.

I will say no more.

 

[Doug Brents]

Has anyone noticed that according to Doug and the Church of Christ, it takes two people for one person to get saved? One to be saved - and another to baptize him.
Woe unto those who do not have someone to baptize them - they may be eternally lost, according to Doug and the Church of Christ.

"How then are they to call on Him in whom they have not believed? How are they to believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 But how are they to preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”" (Rom 10:14-15)
It appears that even God thinks that there must be two, the student and the preacher, hmmm.

 

[dwight92070]

"How then are they to call on Him in whom they have not believed? How are they to believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 But how are they to preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”" (Rom 10:14-15)
It appears that even God thinks that there must be two, the student and the preacher, hmmm.

Really? Who preached to Saul?
What about me? I was saved without a preacher. Yes, I heard the gospel as a kid, but never responded to it, nor even understood it. Later, at 21, God led me to read about the life and teaching of Jesus in the Bible, but I didn't even know where to find that in the Bible. I asked a chaplain. He told me to read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. So I did and Jesus saved me. I was powerfully moved by the words of Jesus.
So I guess you could say Jesus Himself preached to me. I'm sure that this happens to many people.

So I stand corrected. Doug and the Church of Christ believe it takes three people to get saved. The preacher, the believer, and the baptizer.

The rest of us understand the Bible to say that it takes two. A preacher (which could be the Bible itself or a vision as Saul had) and the believer.

Jesus Himself preached to Saul on the road to Damascus. Acts 26:9-18

So He was saved and commissioned on the same day. Then, three days later, he was baptized.

 

[Doug Brents]

Really? Who preached to Saul?
What about me? I was saved without a preacher. Yes, I heard the gospel as a kid, but never responded to it, nor even understood it. Later, at 21, God led me to read about the life and teaching of Jesus in the Bible, but I didn't even know where to find that in the Bible. I asked a chaplain. He told me to read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. So I did and Jesus saved me. I was powerfully moved by the words of Jesus.
So I guess you could say Jesus Himself preached to me. I'm sure that this happens to many people.

What a wonderful story. So let me see if I have this right. You (that's one) heard the Gospel preached as a kid (that's two (or more)), then you asked a chaplain (that's three at least), then you read the Scriptures, then you were baptized into Christ (at some point, which is when you were actually saved)(that's four at least).

So I stand corrected. Doug and the Church of Christ

As I have told you before, I do not advocate for the Church of Christ, nor am I a member of the Church of Christ. Nor am I baptist, catholic, or any other religious subdivision. I am a Christ follower.

believe it takes three people to get saved. The preacher, the believer, and the baptizer.

The preacher is frequently the baptizer, as it was in the case of the Ethiopian Eunuch, and Cornelius, and many others. But it is frequently someone else as it had to have been on Pentecost when over 3000 were baptized into Christ in one day.

The rest of us understand the Bible to say that it takes two. A preacher (which could be the Bible itself or a vision as Saul had) and the believer.

Jesus Himself preached to Saul on the road to Damascus. Acts 26:9-18

So He was saved and commissioned on the same day. Then, three days later, he was baptized.

We have been through this many times and you still don't get it. Saul was not saved on the Road, unless you believe one can be saved yet still be in sin. Saul was still in sin three days later when Ananias showed up. Saul was saved when his sins were washed away in water baptism, just as 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, John 3:5, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14 and many other passages state.

 

[dwight92070]

In your first answer, it's interesting that you didn't count reading the scripture as proclaiming the gospel. Peter even said that we were born again "through the living and enduring word of God". Also you're not focusing on the topic, which was the number of people required for salvation to happen. Yes, I heard the gospel as a kid, but I was not saved, so you can't count that. Yes, I asked a chaplain where I could find the story of Jesus in the Bible and he told me, but he never preached the gospel to me. So that doesn't count.

Then I read the word of God, which, as Peter said DID save me, but you don't even count that. It your estimation, that's a zero towards getting saved. Finally about 2 weeks later, I was baptized, which you falsely claim was when I was saved.
I'm surprised that you would even admit that I "actually was saved."

I did not say you advocated for the Church of Christ. Where did I say that? But obviously you agree with much of their false doctrine.

Sins don't get "washed away in water baptism". They never did and never will. Those five go-to verses/passages state no such thing. That teaching despises and dishonors what Jesus, shedding His blood on the cross, did to cleanse us from sin.

 

[Doug Brents]

In your first answer, it's interesting that you didn't count reading the scripture as proclaiming the gospel. Peter even said that we were born again "through the living and enduring word of God". Also you're not focusing on the topic, which was the number of people required for salvation to happen. Yes, I heard the gospel as a kid, but I was not saved, so you can't count that. Yes, I asked a chaplain where I could find the story of Jesus in the Bible and he told me, but he never preached the gospel to me. So that doesn't count.

Those all count, because you did not live in an bubble. The cumulative experience of your life all impacts your decisions. Yes, the Word of God does contain what is needed to be born again, but as is evident in many of the people on this forum, it requires a teacher to guide the new learner through it. Otherwise, they come to some completely wrong conclusions, as you have.

Then I read the word of God, which, as Peter said DID save me, but you don't even count that. It your estimation, that's a zero towards getting saved. Finally about 2 weeks later, I was baptized, which you falsely claim was when I was saved.
I'm surprised that you would even admit that I "actually was saved."

So you would say that Naaman was cleansed of leprosy when he decided to go to Jordan. He was already healed when he entered the water.
You would say that the walls of Jericho had already fallen when Israel decided to march around the city as God told them to do. They didn't really need to march around it at all. They had decided to march, so the walls fell and they took the city.
You would say that the widow didn't really need to give her last cake of bread to the prophet. She just needed to decide to, and then her flour and oil would sustain her until the end of the famine.

I got it. You just need to rewrite all of Scripture to fit with your doctrine.

I did not say you advocated for the Church of Christ. Where did I say that? But obviously you agree with much of their false doctrine.

No, I disagree 100% with their false doctrines. But I agree 100% with the doctrines they have correct, just as I agree with the doctrines the catholics get right (which are few and far between). It is not the doctrine of the group I agree with, it is the doctrines that come from Scripture that I agree with. If a group gets something right, I am glad for them. But when they get it wrong, I morn for them.

Sins don't get "washed away in water baptism".

According to Scripture they do.

They never did and never will. Those five go-to verses/passages state no such thing. That teaching despises and dishonors what Jesus, shedding His blood on the cross, did to cleanse us from sin.

No, it does not. Jesus' death and shedding of blood made it possible to have sins removed in the first place. But even He said that sin is not removed without both the Spirit and water. And then His Apostles taught and practiced salvation being received at the point of water baptism.