He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[Red Baker]

@Peterlag

Water baptism is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law. There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws.

New Testament water baptism is not a carry over from part of the Levitical law. That you can never prove. The closet point of connection with NT Baptism and the OT, is to found in 1st Corinthians 10, and we would not have know this except by Paul who by the Spirit of God's revelation to him, as he compared the church at Corinth with Israel of old.

1st Corinthians 10:1​

“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"

Paul is connecting these Gentile converts to their Israelite fathers by intricate symbology. The wilderness church had at least as many spiritual and providential blessings as Corinth. Immersion under the cloud and in the Sea was a figurative baptism to Moses, their Christ. Paul is lining up various benefits Israel had to show them comparable to the Corinthians. Moses was a type of Jesus Christ, for he was the mediator of the old covenant (Galatians 3:19). And the Israelites put their trust in him and the LORD by going down into the Red Sea. Let all those who contend for sprinkling or pouring consider the location of our “fathers.” These Israelites, having been saved out of Egypt, went down under the water to enter their rest. They were already under the blood, for the death angel passed over them and not the Egyptians.

Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws.

Do not link water baptism with circumcision which is indeed an OT practice that served its purpose, and truly had no essential spiritual value. Yet, water baptism is a NT doctrine that must be practice as long as the church is here preaching the gospel and men/women are being converted to the truth, then they are commanded to commit their life in obedience to what they profess to believe, by giving God an answer of what they profess to believe, by being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, even in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, which baptism, puts the one being baptized into the religion/faith/teachings, etc. of Jesus Christ, without baptism, a person has not proved that he truly believes.

The burden of poof is on you to prove that baptism is no longer essential, which you can never prove. Are you part of the Islamic faith that do not practice water baptism?

I may come back and add more, but for now I have been called to be somewhere a few miles away, so I must stop for now.

 

[Peterlag]

@Peterlag

New Testament water baptism is not a carry over from part of the Levitical law. That you can never prove. The closet point of connection with NT Baptism and the OT, is to found in 1st Corinthians 10, and we would not have know this except by Paul who by the Spirit of God's revelation to him, as he compared the church at Corinth with Israel of old.

1st Corinthians 10:1​

“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"

Paul is connecting these Gentile converts to their Israelite fathers by intricate symbology. The wilderness church had at least as many spiritual and providential blessings as Corinth. Immersion under the cloud and in the Sea was a figurative baptism to Moses, their Christ. Paul is lining up various benefits Israel had to show them comparable to the Corinthians. Moses was a type of Jesus Christ, for he was the mediator of the old covenant (Galatians 3:19). And the Israelites put their trust in him and the LORD by going down into the Red Sea. Let all those who contend for sprinkling or pouring consider the location of our “fathers.” These Israelites, having been saved out of Egypt, went down under the water to enter their rest. They were already under the blood, for the death angel passed over them and not the Egyptians.


Do not link water baptism with circumcision which is indeed an OT practice that served its purpose, and truly had no essential spiritual value. Yet, water baptism is a NT doctrine that must be practice as long as the church is here preaching the gospel and men/women are being converted to the truth, then they are commanded to commit their life in obedience to what they profess to believe, by giving God an answer of what they profess to believe, by being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, even in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, which baptism, puts the one being baptized into the religion/faith/teachings, etc. of Jesus Christ, without baptism, a person has not proved that he truly believes.

The burden of poof is on you to prove that baptism is no longer essential, which you can never prove. Are you part of the Islamic faith that do not practice water baptism?

I may come back and add more, but for now I have been called to be somewhere a few miles away, so I must stop for now.

There is no doctrine about water that is taught in the New Testament. You can find one or two at the most where it was done as you can find one or two of somebody being Circumcised. These were done out of the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, but never again afterwards. But the doctrine about water is never taught in the New Testament. Never. Because it has nothing to do with the New Testament.

Much of the Roman Catholic doctrine was assimilated into Protestantism and is still being passed along as Christian groups continue to split off from one another. In a nutshell that is why even the independent church in your neighborhood today most probably believes that there is a trinity, dead people are alive, God is in control of everything that happens, the Four Gospels are written to Christians, and water baptism is relevant. And then there's everything that you know about our sin nature was taught to you by them.

 

[Peterlag]

Whose name was Jesus baptized into?

Whatever Jesus was or was not baptized in has nothing to do with me since I am not Jesus the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.

 

[Red Baker]

@Peterlag

There is no doctrine about water that is taught in the New Testament.

Have a nice life, it will be your only one. I'm finish with you. You are not worth the Saint's time.

Matthew 15:13​

“But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”

 

[360watt]

What is the condition on salvation not being given?

Not believing on Jesus Christ.

That is it.

That's the condition .

 

[Peterlag]

@Peterlag

Have a nice life, it will be your only one. I'm finish with you. You are not worth the Saint's time.

Matthew 15:13​

“But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”

You're done with me because there's no doctrine about water that is taught in the New Testament. Nowhere. Not even one verse.

 

[mailmandan]

What is the condition on salvation not being given?

Not believing on Jesus Christ.

That is it.

That's the condition .

John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:29,40,47: 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 15:1-4; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Titus]

In the great commission by Jesus in Matthew 28:18-20, we are not told to baptize and teach disciples of all nations. Jesus actually says there that it is by baptizing and teaching that the disciples are to be made. In that sentence, in both Greek and English, the words baptizing and teaching are not in the imperative mood. The only imperative is the word "make". The words baptizing and teaching are both participles modifying the imperative verb "make". Specifically baptizing and teaching is Christ Jesus' description of how we are to make disciples of the peoples of all nations.

I would add the comment here that even the word "Go" in Greek is not in the imperative mood. It also is a participle. Strictly speaking the Greek says, "[In] going therefore, make disciples of [i.e., disciple] all [Gentiles, heathen, nations, " Thus, it is the people that are to be made disciples by baptizing and teaching them.

Ageed. I wasn't teaching disciples are to be taught and baptized.

we are not told to baptize and teach disciples of all nations. Jesus actually says there that it is by baptizing and teaching that the disciples are to be made.

We are not told to go into all the world and make disciples. The apostles were told this.
The disciples did scatter teaching where they went,
Acts 8:4,
- therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word

This is our example to follow teaching as the 1st century church did.
If we are commanded to go and preach to the entire world.
We are all guilty of disobeying this commandment.

 

[Doug Brents]

We are not told to go into all the world and make disciples. The apostles were told this.
The disciples did scatter teaching where they went,
Acts 8:4,
- therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word

This is our example to follow teaching as the 1st century church did.
If we are commanded to go and preach to the entire world.
We are all guilty of disobeying this commandment.

The Apostles were commanded to teach EVERYTHING they were commanded by Jesus. That includes the command to teach everything. So the disciples that the Apostles made had the mandate to go and make disciples also. And the disciples of the disciples also, all the way down to you and me. EVERY Christ follower has the mandate of Matt 28:19-20 upon them.

 

[dwight92070]

The Apostles were commanded to teach EVERYTHING they were commanded by Jesus. That includes the command to teach everything. So the disciples that the Apostles made had the mandate to go and make disciples also. And the disciples of the disciples also, all the way down to you and me. EVERY Christ follower has the mandate of Matt 28:19-20 upon them.

Obviously correct. If it was just the apostles, then what happens when they die? Not only that but I doubt that the twelve could reach every corner of the earth during their lifetime.

 

[Titus]

The Apostles were commanded to teach EVERYTHING they were commanded by Jesus. That includes the command to teach everything. So the disciples that the Apostles made had the mandate to go and make disciples also. And the disciples of the disciples also, all the way down to you and me. EVERY Christ follower has the mandate of Matt 28:19-20 upon them.

Are you going into all the world preaching the gospel to every creature, Mark 16:15-16 ; Matthew 28:18-20?
If not you are sinning against this commandment given by Jesus.

Christians are commanded to teach the gospel.
You won't find Cornelius being told to quit his job as a Roman soldier to begin his missionary journey preaching the gospel to the entire world.

Acts 8:4,
- therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word

These were any Christian in general.
This is the example that Christians today are to teach others.
Notice they taught where they were. Not the entire world.

2Timothy 2:2,
- and these things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses the same commit thou to faithful men who shall be able to teach others also

Christians are commanded to teach others the gospel.
The same gospel the apostles were commanded to teach to the entire world.

If I never teach the gospel in China. I will not be lost over it.
If Paul refused to teach the gospel in Asia. Paul would be lost, Matthew 28:18-20 ; Mark 16:15-16.
The apostles were given specific commands that in general are not given.
Acts 18:9-10,
- then spake the Lord to Paul, in the night by a vision, be not afraid but speak and hold not thy peace, for I am with thee and no man shall hurt thee for I(Jesus) have much people in this city

 

[Doug Brents]

Are you going into all the world preaching the gospel to every creature, Mark 16:15-16 ; Matthew 28:18-20?
If not you are sinning against this commandment given by Jesus.

No, I'm not. I am teaching the Gospel to the world with which I interact: my children, my community, my work, and forums like this. You would be surprised how many people are lost right here in the USofA. Even in the first century, most of those who were in Christ didn't go all over the world. Only a few, like Paul and Barnabas and Timothy, went from place to place on missionary journeys. Most went about teaching Christ right where they were.

 

[Titus]

EVERY Christ follower has the mandate of Matt 28:19-20 upon them.

Are you going into all the world preaching the gospel to every creature, Mark 16:15-16 ; Matthew 28:18-20?
If not you are sinning against this commandment given by Jesus

No, I'm not.

Why not ?
You taught me every "Christ follower " has to obey the great commission mandate of Matthew 28:18-19.
Now you are telling me you don't obey Jesus' mandate to go into all the world preaching the gospel to every creature.

You now are teaching you dont. You just teach those around you.
Which is what I already taught Christians are commanded to do in my first post on this subject.
The post you took issue with and corrected me on.

We are not told to go into all the world and make disciples. The apostles were told this.
The disciples did scatter teaching where they went,
Acts 8:4,
- therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word

This is our example to follow teaching as the 1st century church did.
If we are commanded to go and preach to the entire world.
We are all guilty of disobeying this commandment.

This is what you corrected me on.
Now you are teaching the same thing you corrected me on.

am teaching the Gospel to the world with which I interact: my children, my community, my work, and forums like this. You would be surprised how many people are lost right here in the USofA. Even in the first century, most of those who were in Christ didn't go all over the world

This was my point to begin with.

Acts 8:4,
- therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word

This is our example to follow as I already stated.
I was Not commanded by Jesus to go on missionary journey preaching to the whole world, Matthew 28:18-20.

Same gospel message to teach.
Different commandments for christians in general.

2 Timothy 2:2.

 

[e v e]

A contradiction in sripture?

No. The opposite of Mark 16:16 is not true. I.e. 'He that is believes and is not baptised is not saved'

The book of John is about assuring believers have eternal life and doesn't mention water baptism much at all.
The book of Romans is about justification by faith in Christ alone and doesn't mention water baptism alot.

So Mark 16:16 need to be put alongside the verses in these books, and not held on it's own.

Same goes for Acts 2:38. It doesn't standalone.

Eternal salvation is, led by Jesus, believing Jesus is God, that He died and rose again, and that by believing in Him you have everlasting life.

Water baptism is as representation/symbol of this happening. As I typed before-- being baptised 'for' the remission of sins, is being baptised for something already happened. Like having a pill 'for' the cold.

Anyway.. I know this has been done to death, but seems popular now for people to think baptism saves eternally. The only kind of salvation it is related to is having a 'salvaged life'.. becoming a faithful believer after eternal salvation. It isn't hooked to eternal salvation. It isn't guaranteed to happen for a believer either.

all the catholic 'sacraments' are invalid
satanic rituals.

jesus never did it..
doctored texts.

ditto circumcision.

 

[Doug Brents]

Why not ?
You taught me every "Christ follower " has to obey the great commission mandate of Matthew 28:18-19.
Now you are telling me you don't obey Jesus' mandate to go into all the world preaching the gospel to every creature.

Are you asking a kidney to act like a foot? Or a eyeball to act like a finger? Or asking one with the gift of prophecy to heal? Or one with the gift of healing to interpret tongues? Each part of the Body has a purpose and a function. The kidney may not go to Indonesia to preach as a missionary. He may stay where he lives and support the missionary so that he doesn't have to worry about funding and where his next meal is coming from. But this still answers the call to "Go unto all the world..." because, as the churches that supported and funded Paul's journeys, we are still getting the Word to the world.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Why not ?
You taught me every "Christ follower " has to obey the great commission mandate of Matthew 28:18-19.
Now you are telling me you don't obey Jesus' mandate to go into all the world preaching the gospel to every creature.

Every single time you log onto this or any other forum, you are not only teaching the word of truth but you are dending it out to the whole world.

This covers far more then when my friend had each of her teen kids spend their own money top go to Haiti for the church
to help.

While that was important, just think oof those that can be reached through the W.W.W.

We are all doing it. Whether you know it or not.

 

[Olde Tymer]

.
● Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them: Go ye into all the world, and preach the
gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned.

Multiplied thousands of people were imprisoned in German camps like Auschwitz,
Dachau, and Buchenwald during WW2. Well, it's my guess that a percentage of
those thousands caught up in the Nazi dragnet were believing Christians who did
what they could to share the gospel with unbelieving prisoners.

The thing is: those folks had scarcely adequate water for thirst and hygiene, so
what did they do for baptisms?

It seems utterly preposterous to me that that the supreme being would go to all the
trouble of setting up His son to be crucified for the sins of the world only to lose a
number of souls merely because they weren't afforded the opportunity to undergo a
three-minute ritual.

Mark 16:15-16 became a standing order after Jesus' resurrection. However, passages
like Rom 10:8-9, Acts 10:44-48, 1Cor 1:17, and Eph 1:13-14 raise my suspicions that
something pivotal somewhere in Christianity's development eventually minimized baptism
to the status of a non essential.
_

 

[Doug Brents]

.
● Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them: Go ye into all the world, and preach the
gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned.

Multiplied thousands of people were imprisoned in German camps like Auschwitz,
Dachau, and Buchenwald during WW2. Well, it's my guess that a percentage of
those thousands caught up in the Nazi dragnet were believing Christians who did
what they could to share the gospel with unbelieving prisoners.

The thing is: those folks had scarcely adequate water for thirst and hygiene, so
what did they do for baptisms?

It seems utterly preposterous to me that that the supreme being would go to all the
trouble of setting up His son to be crucified for the sins of the world only to lose a
number of souls merely because they weren't afforded the opportunity to undergo a
three-minute ritual.

Mark 16:15-16 became a standing order after Jesus' resurrection. However, passages
like Rom 10:8-9, Acts 10:44-48, 1Cor 1:17, and Eph 1:13-14 raise my suspicions that
something pivotal somewhere in Christianity's development eventually minimized baptism
to the status of a non essential.
_

Does it matter to God that something He made essential man says is a "non-essential"? Not at all. If it is essential to God, it does not matter in the least what man says about it.

Look at John 12:42. Just believing (intellectual assent) in who Jesus is is not enough for salvation to be received. Faith, action taken in response to that belief, is what is necessary. And that action demands ALL of what Scripture says leads to or results in salvation being received: repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism in water (1 Pet 3:21, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, John 3:5, etc.).

 

[Titus]

Every single time you log onto this or any other forum, you are not only teaching the word of truth but you are dending it out to the whole world.

This covers far more then when my friend had each of her teen kids spend their own money top go to Haiti for the church
to help.

While that was important, just think oof those that can be reached through the W.W.W.

We are all doing it. Whether you know it or not.

That's wonderful is folks from other lands hear the gospel from me.
But my main point is, if I never have the opportunity to teach overseas, I will not be held accountable on judgment.
The apostles will be. They were commanded to go preach the gospel to every creature, Mark 16:15-16. That is a specific command given to a specific group of men.
The general command for all christians to teach the gospel to others is found in, 1 Peter 3:15,
- but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear

 

[FreeInChrist]

That's wonderful is folks from other lands hear the gospel from me.
But my main point is, if I never have the opportunity to teach overseas, I will not be held accountable on judgment.

But you do have. This is a world wide platform. We have folks on here who come from across the pond, and every time you type a word you are teaching your thoughts to them,

Remember ...and make no mistake in believing it not so.... but we are told Revelation 1:7 states, "Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of him." This verse emphasizes that Jesus' second coming will be a public event witnessed by all

24/7 television. 24/7 news coverages... All will be able to see simultaneously. Like all today have the opportunity to hear.
Good grief... INSTANT connections world wide on our cell phones.

Why don't you start a blog and teach.... You dont have to do it physically in person since the past few hundred years God has advances the ability to reach folks from you very home.

You open your mouth and God will see it reached ears that need to hear.

The apostles will be. They were commanded to go preach the gospel to every creature, Mark 16:15-16. That is a specific command given to a specific group of men.

You cannot believe every creature because they had no means to go world wide. They travelled by feet , possibly camels , and carts pulled by whatevers. The could not cross large expanses of water, and there were no flights back then.

PLUS as you say "That is a specific command given to a specific group of men." At a time when they had to carry a message
with no other way.

The general command for all christians to teach the gospel to others is found in, 1 Peter 3:15,
- but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear

This is not the same as heading out the Door to Evangelize those in the Artic (Which BTW you can walk to) or the scientists at Antartica.

But you do not have to go to France or England or Spain.... We have had from England and Italy right on here.
Ya wanna Evangelize China. When was the last time you did anything about getting bibles to them?

The sin IMO is shutting up and never talking to anyone for fear of losing a friend, or being countered that your beliefs
differ from another.

Also.... do you make contributions to your church missionaries? With out money they cannot go, and you might be the very one who gets that word to people you would never be able to talk to in person yourself.

Be blessed and just let God open your heart to how and what you can do.