He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

Being filled with the Holy Spirit is not limited only to the saved. Being indwelled with the Holy Spirit is limited to those who have been saved; but being filled with the Holy Spirit is not.
So, how can one be filled with the Holy Spirit if one has not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit?
That had been occurring throughout the OT and occasionally even to non-believers and to animals such as Baalam's donkey.
There is a difference between the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and in the New Testament in regard to "indwelling." The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5). When we believe the gospel/place our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance.” (Ephesians 1:14)

In contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks. So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for specific tasks and not to permanently seal them with the Holy Spirit.

In regard to Balaam's donkey, one of the most ludicrous arguments that I have ever heard from folks who attend the CoC in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either. In the first place, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for (human) believers only. This same ludicrous argument concludes that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 merely received the gift of tongues, but not the gift of the Holy Spirit and were not saved until AFTER water baptism. o_O
Being filled with the Holy Spirit indicated only that the one being filled was being enabled to do something not normally within his capabilities; it did not indicate salvation.
Being filled with the Holy Spirit certainly does indicate salvation and is a subsequent experience to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in which the Holy Spirit controls and guides every aspect of the believer, providing empowerment for ministry, which may or may not be accompanied by speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:4; 4:8; 4:31; 7:55; 9:7; 13:9; 13:52 etc..)
 
So, how can one be filled with the Holy Spirit if one has not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit?
They are entirely different works of the Holy Spirit. To be filled with the Holy Spirit gave abilities to the one being filled that were beyond their own natural abilities (Exo 35:21 and elsewhere). It was typically only for a very few selected individuals for a very selected reason for a very limited time. And was not limited to human believers. It is a gift. But in that case the gift is the extra-natural ability given to the individual and is unrelated to God's act of salvation. That is what is indicated in Acts 10:44-47. To be indwelt with the Holy Spirit is a gift also. However, in that case, the gift is the Holy Spirit. It is uniformly given to the one who is being saved. No extra-natural abilities result from the indwelling even though often natural abilities can and will be enhanced.
There is a difference between the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and in the New Testament in regard to "indwelling." The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5). When we believe the gospel/place our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance.” (Ephesians 1:14)
I agree.
In contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks. So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for specific tasks and not to permanently seal them with the Holy Spirit.
But even in the events of indwelling and filling in the OT were different. There was filling without any indication of indwelling.
In regard to Balaam's donkey, one of the most ludicrous arguments that I have ever heard from folks who attend the CoC in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either. In the first place, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for (human) believers only. This same ludicrous argument concludes that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 merely received the gift of tongues, but not the gift of the Holy Spirit and were not saved until AFTER water baptism. o_O
And that is one of the really ludicrous arguments that I often hear from anti-baptism folks.
Being filled with the Holy Spirit certainly does indicate salvation and is a subsequent experience to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in which the Holy Spirit controls and guides every aspect of the believer, providing empowerment for ministry, which may or may not be accompanied by speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:4; 4:8; 4:31; 7:55; 9:7; 13:9; 13:52 etc..)
Outside of the two occasions listed in Acts 2:4 and 10:44 all subsequent filling of the Holy Spirit is listed to have occurred by the laying on of hands of one or more of the Apostles and was indicated by the action of signs, wonders and miracles by the one having been filled. The usual was speaking in tongues and prophesying. That is shown by the account in Samaria present in Acts 8. The believers there were baptized and with that had received the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit. However, none of them had received the filling of the Holy Spirit. It took the Apostles Peter and John to receive the filling of the Holy Spirit.

A similar situation is recorded in Acts 19 with Paul in Ephesus. Having received only the baptism of John the Baptist, which was not baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, they had not received the indwelling Holy Spirit. Paul then proceeded to baptize them, or at least have others baptize them, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ giving them the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit. But to receive the filling of the Holy Spirit required the laying on of Paul's hands at which time they were then capable of speaking in tongues and prophesying.

Again, being indwelt with the Holy Spirit is universal to the ones saved and occurs when they are baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Being filled with the Holy Spirit was limited and unrelated directly with salvation.
 
So, how can one be filled with the Holy Spirit if one has not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Easily, not a single person in the OT was who was filled with the Holy Spirit had the gift (indwelling) of the Spirit. The indwelling is a NT manifestation of the Spirit. And the indwelling Spirit is only given to those who have been saved. But to be filled with the Spirit and receive His miraculous power does not require one to be saved.
 
Easily, not a single person in the OT was who was filled with the Holy Spirit had the gift (indwelling) of the Spirit. The indwelling is a NT manifestation of the Spirit. And the indwelling Spirit is only given to those who have been saved. But to be filled with the Spirit and receive His miraculous power does not require one to be saved.
Show me in the OT where people were specifically said to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit. In the OT the Holy Spirit "came upon" select individuals for specific tasks rather than permanently indwelling them. Show me where NT saints were said to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit but had not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were not saved.
 
Easily, not a single person in the OT was who was filled with the Holy Spirit had the gift (indwelling) of the Spirit. The indwelling is a NT manifestation of the Spirit. And the indwelling Spirit is only given to those who have been saved. But to be filled with the Spirit and receive His miraculous power does not require one to be saved.
Which person was filled with the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament? Several had the Holy Spirit come upon them, but which one was filled? They are not the same thing.

Doug said: But to be filled with the Spirit and receive His miraculous power does not require one to be saved.

Really, name one Bible person who was filled with the Holy Spirit and received miraculous power who was not saved.
 
Show me in the OT where people were specifically said to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit. In the OT the Holy Spirit "came upon" select individuals for specific tasks rather than permanently indwelling them. Show me where NT saints were said to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit but had not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were not saved.
Exo 31:3
Eze 2:2
 
Exo 31:3
Eze 2:2
Exodus 31:3 - and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts.

Only one verse in the OT that says filled?

Ezekiel 2:2 - Then the Spirit entered me when He spoke to me, and set me on my feet; and I heard Him who spoke to me.

Hmm.. not filled? That's all you have? Your argument "to be filled with the Spirit and receive His miraculous power does not require one to be saved" in regard to those NT passages of scripture that I shared still falls short.

Were Peter, Stephen and Paul saved when they were filled with the Holy Spirit or were they still lost? (Acts 4:4; 7:55; 13:9)
 
Nice eisegesis. Now try for exegesis.
Sigh... avi_headscratch.gif Really eek.gif Surly you have heard too much from me already about John 3: 5 and 3:6... but here goes.

I said " John 3:5 water = John 3:6 flesh" because there is a lot of confusion about the use of water here.

John 3 tells us that Nicodemus (here after to be called Nick) came to Jesus seeking the answer to his question of what he had to do to gain eternal life. And Jesus very calmly told him "Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

This sets Nick off because he thinks Jesus is talking about Childbirth. He says..."Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

And Jesus calmly... I am projecting here because I assume he was calm said to Nick

Vs 5" Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Which has caused a big hoopla among debaters of these things and many clergy who are certain that when Jesus said Born again and then said Water and The Spirit it had to mean an immersion baptism.

Now it is reasonable that Nick would have known about Jewish Baptisms being a pharisee and it is reasonable that Nicodemus, as a Pharisee and a knowledgeable teacher of Jewish law, would have been aware of Jewish baptism practices, particularly those associated with ritual purification and the baptism of John the Baptist. These practices were part of the religious customs and teachings of the time.

But Jesus never once suggested an immersion into water was necessary, which Nick would have understood... and in fact Jesus
went right on and said

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
followed by "“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

But no clarity on the mentioning of water... Jesus had said water and Spirit, vs 5
followed by flesh and Spirit vs 6 as if the Water and Flesh had a tie in.

After this Jesus continues to ignore the water altogether and finishes what he was telling Nick about the Spirit.

verse 8 " “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

verse 9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?”

verse 10 "Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?"

and then Jesus moves the conversation to

verse 14 “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;

verse 15 'so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

That is the basic Nick born again story.... the emphasis was on the Spirit and also not mistakenly on Jesus .

I submit that in verse 5 and vers 6 where we have water and flesh back to back that that is exactly what the reference is to water.

NOT an immersion baptism.

It is my opinion that Jesus could easily have said when Nick asked How these things could be... that Being a teacher of Israel
Jesus well could have said Nick's knowing about the baptisms for their religion that they needed to be changed and or altered so that it would be acceptable in the sight of God....

But he dropped the water altogether.

Water and Spirit in one verse = Flesh and Spirit in the next. Only the Spirit survived both those references... ergo Water = Flesh
and Flesh is not born again.
 
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