Gospel of Christ: Is It Law Or Did It End Law?

[e v e]

it sort of ruins all the esau pharisees
in charge of theology and their serpent
narrative and lies , that

Christ was there in eden.

that being christian was not
'invented' at 0 ad

that Christ came here to rescue us
-- here being a foreign place

of which he said I am not from here....

well neither are eden souls

 

[e v e]

if christianity were invented
in 0 ad then

where please was Christ
when eden was created?

 

[Affinity]

Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” Matthew 5:17–18

This important statement of our Lord gives us insight into His mission and the character of God’s Word.

 

[Duane]

In Christianity , the Law and the Gospel represent two distinct, yet intertwined, aspects of God's Word. The Law refers to God's commands and moral expectations, revealing sin and demanding perfect obedience, while the Gospel proclaims God's saving grace and forgiveness through Jesus Christ. These two concepts are crucial for understanding the Bible and the Christian faith, serving as a foundational framework for interpretation and application.

 

[e v e]

In Christianity , the Law and the Gospel represent two distinct, yet intertwined, aspects of God's Word. The Law refers to God's commands and moral expectations, revealing sin and demanding perfect obedience, while the Gospel proclaims God's saving grace and forgiveness through Jesus Christ. These two concepts are crucial for understanding the Bible and the Christian faith, serving as a foundational framework for interpretation and application.

Real and transcendent context:
to me they are the same
since His Law of the spirit of life = His Spirit = Life

Christ = Life


Current fallen situation
(modern christianity as fallen):
yeah i can see how
in the fallen context
until rapture when His souls
are saved from this foreign land
(but now in Flesh bodies)
it becomes all about society
(since we are in the sin realm!)


He made commandments
to protect us from that flesh
and this sin realm
until He gets us out of
here (egypt) and back Home

 

[e v e]

if christianity were invented
in 0 ad then

where please was Christ
when eden was created?

why is anyone not capable to reply?

 

[e v e]

simply, all eden souls followed Christ.
before eden fell and since.

Cheers.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

if christianity were invented
in 0 ad then

where please was Christ
when eden was created?

Christ created Eden.

But Christ (actually the messiah or the anointed one) did not come on seen until the first century AD.. so people would not yet be called Christian.

 

[brightfame52]

All the righteous requirements the Law demanded for Life, Christ for His People has fulfilled it for them, God accepted His Righteous life of obedience as the elects surety as fulling the Law. Remember the young ruler asked Matt 19

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 ;And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Well this keeping the commandments for eternal life is impossible with man,

But Jesu for Gods chosen people Rom 8

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

In fact, that was one of the purposes of the Law, that it would be ultimately fulfilled by Christ as covenant surety,
Isa 42

21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

So Jesus was serious when He said Matt 5 17

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
So He is the end of the Law Rom 10:4

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth

Every one for whom Christ did this for will be given the Gift of Faith to believe in Him for their Righteousness

 

[charismaticlady]

Gospel is new testament Law.
Pay close attention to what Paul teaches in Romans 8:2, it reads,
- there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit
- for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

Paul is teaching of two laws here.
The law of the Spirit that frees from the law of sin and death.

First is the new testament law, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Second is the old law that cannot give life it only brings sin and death.

Paul talks about these two laws using very similar words in Galatians. Read Galatians 5:1,
- standfast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us  free
And be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage

In these verses Paul is contrasting two laws.
The old testament law of Moses i.e. the law of sin and death.
The new testament law. It gives life, liberty, freedom in Christ.

The new testament law is who ALL are under today. Both the jew and the gentile.
The new law replaced the old.
This new testament law is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ

1 Corinthians 9:21,
- to them that are without law as without law being not without law to God but under the law of Christ that I might gain them that are without law

The gospel is the good news. But also the good news can be disobeyed.
The only way to disobey the gospel is if it contains commands.
Since the gospel contains commands it is therefore Gods new testament law.
2 Thessalonians 1:8,
- in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Jesus is the law giver under the new covenant, the new testament, the new law, the gospel of Jesus.
Matthew 28:18-20,
- and Jesus came and spake unto them saying, all power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth
- teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you...

The new testament gospel is the rule of judgement.
Romans 2:16,
- in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel

John 12:48,
- he that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My words hath one that judgeth him, the word that I have spoken the same shall judge him in the last day

The gospel is not only the standard to salvation and godly living but also the standard by which God will judge all people both jew and gentile.

Some have been misled to believe we are not under law but under grace.
While others believe there is one continuous covenant, therefore the law of Moses is still in effect.
Both of these beliefs are error. The Bible does not teach this.

If not under law then God does not charge us with sin. As there can be no accountability of sin if there is no law.
Romans 5:13,
- for until the law sin was in the world but sin is not imputed when there is no law

But what about grace? Doesn't law cancel grace?
Romans 6:14-15; 17
- for sin shall not have dominion over you for ye are not under law(old testament, old law of Moses) but under grace

Paul is not teaching we today are not under any law.
Paul is teaching we are freed from the old covenant law of Moses. It is no longer binding.
Keep reading chapter 6 and you will learn that obedience to the doctrine of Christ freed them.
That proves they are under law for they had to obey commandments.
Verse 17 of Romans chapter 6,
- but God be thanked that ye were servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you
- being made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness

While we are not under a system of law that saves by law keeping.
Grace does not give us freedom to sin.
Grace teaches us a new way of how to obey. That new way is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Titus 2:11-12,
- for the  grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men
- teaching us that denying ungodlyness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world

The old law ended. No one could be saved by the old law. But Christs new law, His gospel can set men free from there sins. It is perfect while the old law is imperfect. Christs new law is perfect meaning complete because it can give all liberty from the bondage of sin.

Galatians 5:4,
- Christ has become of no effect unto you, whosoever you are justified by the law(old testament law), ye have fallen from grace

James 1:25,
- but whose looketh into the perfect law of liberty and continueth therein he being not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his work

Conclusion: I could give more evidence but this is sufficient.
The new testament gospel of Jesus Christ is also His new covenant and His new law.

Jesus said: John 13:34-35 = Leviticus 19:18 = but a higher standard than the old law, John 15:13.
- a new commandment(new law) I give unto you that ye love one another as I have loved you, that ye also love one another

- By this SHALL ALL MEN KNOW that ye are My disciples if ye have love one to another

The "law of the Spirit" should give us a hint at what grace consists of. It is not "unmerited favor" as was taught after the 1st century by Martin Luther. Romans 1:16-17 tells us the truth of the gospel of grace. It is the POWER OF GOD. Therefore, grace is the power of God in us and the result of being born again of the Spirit. God, Himself, dwells in us preventing us from committing any sins unto death. 1 John 3:9.

This makes us sinless, but not perfect. Sinlessness is righteousness the first level of being a Christian when we are washed clean , sanctified and justified by the Author of our faith. 1 Cor. 6:11. Then Jesus as the Finisher of our faith continues His work in us over a long time of maturing the fruit of the Spirit until they are all mature and we never stumble. This is perfection which is holiness. 2 Peter 1:5-11. Revelation 22:11 ...he who is righteous let him be righteous still, and he who is holy let him be holy still."

Then the

 

[charismaticlady]

Christ created Eden.

But Christ (actually the messiah or the anointed one) did not come on seen until the first century AD.. so people would not yet be called Christian.

Hi there friend. "Christian" was actually used against Christians as a slur.

 

[mailmandan]

Christ created Eden.

But Christ (actually the messiah or the anointed one) did not come on seen until the first century AD.. so people would not yet be called Christian.

Acts 11:26 - And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

 

[Soyeong]

Gospel is new testament Law.
Pay close attention to what Paul teaches in Romans 8:2, it reads,
- there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit
- for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

Paul is teaching of two laws here.
The law of the Spirit that frees from the law of sin and death.

First is the new testament law, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Second is the old law that cannot give life it only brings sin and death.

Paul talks about these two laws using very similar words in Galatians. Read Galatians 5:1,
- standfast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us  free
And be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage

In these verses Paul is contrasting two laws.
The old testament law of Moses i.e. the law of sin and death.
The new testament law. It gives life, liberty, freedom in Christ.

In Romans 7-8:2, Paul said that the Law of God is good, that he wanted to do good, that he delighted in obeying it, and that he served it with his mind, but contrasted it with the law of sin, which was working within his members to cause him not to do that good that he wanted to do, which was waging war against the Law of His mind, which he served with his flesh, which held him captive, and which the Law of the Spirit has freed us from. Moreover, in Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God, so the Law of God is not the law of sin and death, but rather they lead us in opposite directions.

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God spoke to him without depart from it, so the the Law of Moses is the Law of God, which is why it is referred to as being the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23. The Spirit is God, so it doesn't even make sense to interpret that as saying that the Law of God has freed us from the Law of God.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and I see no justification for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to anything that Christ taught. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit the gift of eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Law of Moses, so it is false that it does not give life.

If God freed the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to His law, then it would be for bondage that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free. In Psalms 119:142, the Law of Moses is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Law of Moses that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free.

The new testament law is who ALL are under today. Both the jew and the gentile.
The new law replaced the old.
This new testament law is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ

1 Corinthians 9:21,
- to them that are without law as without law being not without law to God but under the law of Christ that I might gain them that are without law

Bearing one another's burdens is not doing anything that isn't in accordance with the Law of Moses. In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul used a parallel statement to equate the Law of God with the Law of Christ and the Law of Moses is the Law of God.

The gospel is the good news. But also the good news can be disobeyed.
The only way to disobey the gospel is if it contains commands.
Since the gospel contains commands it is therefore Gods new testament law.
2 Thessalonians 1:8,
- in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Jesus is the law giver under the new covenant, the new testament, the new law, the gospel of Jesus.
Matthew 28:18-20,
- and Jesus came and spake unto them saying, all power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth
- teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you...

The Law of Moses sums up all that Jesus commanded them.

The new testament gospel is the rule of judgement.
Romans 2:16,
- in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel

Paul also taught the Gospel of the Kingdom based on the Law of Moses (Acts 20:24-25, 28:23).

John 12:48,
- he that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My words hath one that judgeth him, the word that I have spoken the same shall judge him in the last day

The gospel is not only the standard to salvation and godly living but also the standard by which God will judge all people both jew and gentile.

Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of Moses (1 John 3:4), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it. It is contradictory for someone to think that they need salvation from living in transgression of the Law of Moses while also thinking that they have no obligation to live in obedience to it.

Some have been misled to believe we are not under law but under grace.
While others believe there is one continuous covenant, therefore the law of Moses is still in effect.
Both of these beliefs are error. The Bible does not teach this.

If not under law then God does not charge us with sin. As there can be no accountability of sin if there is no law.
Romans 5:13,
- for until the law sin was in the world but sin is not imputed when there is no law

The reason why Jesus established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or so that that we could be free to continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Law of Moses (Jeremiah 31:33). Sin was in the world before the law was given, so there were no actions that became righteous or sinful when the law was given, but rather the law revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that.

But what about grace? Doesn't law cancel grace?
Romans 6:14-15; 17
- for sin shall not have dominion over you for ye are not under law(old testament, old law of Moses) but under grace

Paul is not teaching we today are not under any law.
Paul is teaching we are freed from the old covenant law of Moses. It is no longer binding.
Keep reading chapter 6 and you will learn that obedience to the doctrine of Christ freed them.
That proves they are under law for they had to obey commandments.
Verse 17 of Romans chapter 6,
- but God be thanked that ye were servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you
- being made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness

While we are not under a system of law that saves by law keeping.
Grace does not give us freedom to sin.
Grace teaches us a new way of how to obey. That new way is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Law of Moses leads us to do what is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) while the law of sin leads us in the opposite direction by stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death. In Romans 6:14, Paul described the law that we are not under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Law of Moses, but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, so we are still under the Law of Moses. In the rest of Romans 6, Paul contrasted these two directions where we are slaves to the one that we obey, either the law of sin, which leads to death, or obedience to the Law of Moses, which leads to righteousness.

Titus 2:11-12,
- for the  grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men
- teaching us that denying ungodlyness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world

The old law ended. No one could be saved by the old law. But Christs new law, His gospel can set men free from there sins. It is perfect while the old law is imperfect. Christs new law is perfect meaning complete because it can give all liberty from the bondage of sin.

In Titus 2:11-13 our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so dong those works in obedience to the Law of Moses has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation as the result, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of them is part of His gift of salvation. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

Galatians 5:4,
- Christ has become of no effect unto you, whosoever you are justified by the law(old testament law), ye have fallen from grace

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to the Law of Moses, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ. It would also be absurd to interpret Psalms 119:29-30 as if he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace.

James 1:25,
- but whose looketh into the perfect law of liberty and continueth therein he being not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his work

The Law of Moses is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so James speaking about a perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it was not saying anything about the Law of Moses that wasn't already said in the Psalms.

Conclusion: I could give more evidence but this is sufficient.
The new testament gospel of Jesus Christ is also His new covenant and His new law.

Jesus said: John 13:34-35 = Leviticus 19:18 = but a higher standard than the old law, John 15:13.
- a new commandment(new law) I give unto you that ye love one another as I have loved you, that ye also love one another

- By this SHALL ALL MEN KNOW that ye are My disciples if ye have love one to another

The greatest two commandments of the Law of Moses are to love God and our neighbor, so love is not doing something other than what is in accordance with it.

 

[Soyeong]

In Christianity , the Law and the Gospel represent two distinct, yet intertwined, aspects of God's Word. The Law refers to God's commands and moral expectations, revealing sin and demanding perfect obedience, while the Gospel proclaims God's saving grace and forgiveness through Jesus Christ. These two concepts are crucial for understanding the Bible and the Christian faith, serving as a foundational framework for interpretation and application.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, not something that is distinct from it. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

 

[Soyeong]

Matthew 22:37-40

Everything in the Law of Moses is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, idolatry, theft, murder, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Law of Moses.

1John 5:2,
- by this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments

The way to love God is by being in His likeness through being a doer of His character traits. For example, the way to love justice is by being a doer of justice in obedience to the Law of Moses, the way to love holiness is by being a doer of God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. In other words, the goal of everything that God has commanded in the Law of Moses is to teach us how to love different aspects of His character, which is why the Bible says repeatedly in both the OT and the NT that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments.

Jesus' new testament gospel/law includes moral expectations,

Jesus quoted three times form Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so the NT law does not exclude anything that God has spoken.

Paul is stating a general truth that all of Gods instruction is profitable.We learn from the old testament still.
Paul does not mean the old law is still binding.
Many of the old laws are moral laws. Gods morality does not change therefore many laws seem to be from the old have been included in His new law.
God ended the old law, so any laws that look similar to the old are not old but new just restated under the new law.

There is no profit in learning from the OT if you don't learn what to do. Paul said that it is profitable for teaching, correction, reproof, and training in righteousness that the man of God might be complete thoroughly equipped to do every good work, all of which is connected to what we do, not just to know. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to be in God's likeness by being a doer of His character traits, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so God has not ended any of them.

Romans 10:4,
- for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of Law of Moses is to teach us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4, the had a zeal for God but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as though righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing it as though righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith refers to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that the Law of Moses is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead for salvation. So nothing in this passage has anything to do with Christ ending his law, but just the opposite. It is straightforward that God Word made flesh is the goal of God's Word and it doesn't even make sense to think that God's word made flesh ended God's word.

Romans 3:19, 20,
- therefore by the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight for the law is the knowledge of sin

While Paul denied that we can earn our justification as the result of our works, he also said that only the doers of the Law of Moses will be justified (Romans 2:13), so there must be a reason why our justification requires us to choose to be a doer of it other than in order to earn it as the result, namely faith insofar as Paul said that our faith does not abolish the law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:31)

Paul tells these Jewish christians that the old law was never intended as a way of salvation.

Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is, so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.

Instead, it showed sin.
The key transition point : - and now Christ has come it is no longer in force, Galatians 3:24-25

Jesus did not come with the Gospel message to stop repenting because the law is no longer in force and we are free to be doers of what it reveals to be wickedness now that he has come, but just the opposite he came with the message repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which is in accordance with him being send as the promises seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).

In Romans Paul teaches jewish christians are  now under a new system.
Not Moses' Law.
Romans 7:4-6,
- wherefore my brethren ye also become dead to the law by the body of Christ that ye should be married to another even to Him who is raised from the dead that we should bring forth fruit unto God
- but now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held that we should serve in newness of spirit and NOT in the oldness of the letter

It is absurd to interpret that as saying that we need to die to God's Word in order to become unified with God's Word made flesh or that we need to die to God's instructions for how to bear fruit for Him in order to be free to bear fruit for him, but rather we need to die to a law that was hindering us from obeying it, namely the law of sin. In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in being the Law of God in contrast with saying that the law of sin held him captive, so it would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:5 as referring to the Law of God as if Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, but rather that is the role of the law of sin. Likewise, it would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:6 as if Paul delighted in being held captive to sin, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive.

Newness of spirit. They are under the new testament law of Christ friend.
Notice Paul said they are dead to the law by the body of Christ

In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God.

Galatians 3

In Galatians 3:16-19, there is a principle where a new covenant does not nullify the promises of a covenant that has already been ratified, so God's covenants are cumulatively valid. Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster. in Galatians 3:26-29, every aspect of being in children of God, through faith, in Christ, and children of Abraham and heirs to the promise is all directly connected with living in obedience to the Law of God. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who are not doers of righteous works in obedience to the Law of Moses are not children of God. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law of Moses. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked. In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him.

No born again jew was ever again under any of the Mosaical law.

No one who is not under the Law of Moses is born again (1 John 3:4-10).

 

[Soyeong]

How about this

it FULFILLED LAW

"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses by teaching us how to correctly obey it.

The law was given to expose our sin and point us to Christ.
not show us how to be righteous people. that was never its purpose.

The Hebrew word "yada" refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew "yada" Eve, she conceived, and gave brith to Cain. God's way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by being in His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of His household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through the Law of Moses, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Law of Moses is to teach us how to know God and Jesus by being in His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, which is His gift of eternal life, which is why it points us to Christ. It would be contradictory for the law to just expose our unrighteousness without also teaching us how to be doers of righteousness by contrast.

No

the gospel is the good news of Jesus, Christ died, buried and raised on the third day for our justification

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20).

no one can keep the law of moses.. so this is a misnomer.

In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that the Law of Moses is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! Moreover, there are many examples of people who did keep the Law of Moses, such as with those in Joshua 22:1-3 or Luke 1:5-6.

I will just take what Paul said.

Gal 3: 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Someone who disregarded everything that their tutor taught them after they left would be missing the whole point of a tutor. The Law of Moses leads us to Christ because it was graciously give to teach us how to know him, but does not lead us to him so that we can then reject what he taught and go back to being doers of the Law of Moses reveals to be wickedness. In Acts 3:25-26, Jesus was sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses by teaching us how to correctly obey it.

No

To fulfill any law. is to meet its standard. To never have broken even 1 part of that law.

James said if we keep the whole law yet stumble on one point. we are guilty of all.

Jesus kept every jot and tittle of the law. He never broke one command.

He did what we failed to do.

The Hebrew word "yada" refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew "yada" Eve, she conceived, and gave brith to Cain. God's way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by being in His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of His household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through the Law of Moses, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Law of Moses is to teach us how to know God and Jesus by being in His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, which is His gift of eternal life, which is why it points us to Christ. It would be contradictory for the law to just expose our unrighteousness without also teaching us how to be doers of righteousness by contrast.

Yes Jesus Knew God. Yet I have experienced and know God also.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20).


In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that the Law of Moses is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! Moreover, there are many examples of people who did keep the Law of Moses, such as with those in Joshua 22:1-3 or Luke 1:5-6.


Someone who disregarded everything that their tutor taught them after they left would be missing the whole point of a tutor. The Law of Moses leads us to Christ because it was graciously give to teach us how to know him, but does not lead us to him so that we can then reject what he taught and go back to being doers of the Law of Moses reveals to be wickedness. In Acts 3:25-26, Jesus was sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness.

you have it wrong

You do not disregard the law. You move on to a better thing.

The law was not given to show us how to be good. it was written to expose our sin and convict us of those very sins.

Now we move to a better law (the LAW OD L0VE) In which all the law can be fulfilled..

 

[Titus]

Jesus quoted three times form Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so the NT law does not exclude anything that God has spoken

Jesus quoted scripture from the old testament because when He was being tempted by satan, there was not new testament gospel. Jesus had not died and ressurected therefore His new testament gospel was not yet in force, Hebrew 9:16-17.

Paul said that it is profitable for teaching, correction, reproof, and training in righteousness that the man of God might be complete thoroughly equipped to do every good work, all of which is connected to what we do,

Paul included ALL, ALL, ALL, of the word of God.
You are claiming only the old testament which is not what Paul said.
Therefore you are misrepresenting Paul.
2 Timothy 3:16,
- ALL, ALL, ALL, SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God and is profitable....

It is absurd to interpret that as saying that we need to die to God's Word in order to become unified with God's

The absurdity is to come to the conclusions you come to.
I never taught we must die to Gods word and not follow/ obey Gods word.

Sir, do you not know the Bible is seperated into a old covenant and a new covenant?

When you teach on law, you are guilty of teaching there is only one continuous covenant.
Not so.

Hebrews 8:6-7,
- but now hath He(Jesus) obtained a more excellent ministry by how much also He is the mediator of a better covenant which was established upon better promises
- for if that first covenant had been faultless then should no place have been sought for the second

There is NOT one continuous law.

Tell me.
Are we bound under the old law of Moses today?
Is the old law binding still?
That means christians must obey the law of Moses or be lost.

It would be extremely helpful if you first knew my beliefs before you attack my teaching.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus quoted scripture from the old testament because when He was being tempted by satan, there was not new testament gospel. Jesus had not died and ressurected therefore His new testament gospel was not yet in force, Hebrew 9:16-17.

Again, repenting from our disobedience to God's law is a central part of the NT Gospel (Matthew 4:15-23), which was a Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8). Again, the reason why Jesus established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or to cause us to be free to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following God's law (Jeremiah 31:33).

Paul included ALL, ALL, ALL, of the word of God.
You are claiming only the old testament which is not what Paul said.
Therefore you are misrepresenting Paul.
2 Timothy 3:16,
- ALL, ALL, ALL, SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God and is profitable....

While I agree that all Scripture is profitable, 2 Timothy 3:15-17 refers to Scripture that that Timothy had available to him since childhood, which could only be referring to OT Scripture because none of the books of the NT had yet been written at that point. At the very least, 2 Timothy 3:15-17 is inclusive of OT Scripture and it is profitable in regard to our conduct.

The absurdity is to come to the conclusions you come to.
I never taught we must die to Gods word and not follow/ obey Gods word.

The Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God spoke to him without departing from it, so the Law of Moses is God's Word.

Sir, do you not know the Bible is seperated into a old covenant and a new covenant?

When you teach on law, you are guilty of teaching there is only one continuous covenant.
Not so.

Hebrews 8:6-7,
- but now hath He(Jesus) obtained a more excellent ministry by how much also He is the mediator of a better covenant which was established upon better promises
- for if that first covenant had been faultless then should no place have been sought for the second

There is NOT one continuous law.

We are under the New Covenant, which is made with the same God with the same character traits and therefore the same instructions for how to be a doer of His character traits. In Galatians 3:16-19, there is a principle that new covenants do not nullify the promises of covenants that have already been ratified, so God's covenants are cumulatively valid. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if it is cumulative with it. So the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is cumulatively based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). The fault that God found with the Mosaic Covenant was not with His law, but with the people for not continuing in their covenant (Hebrews 8:7-9), so the solution to the problem was not for God to do away with His law, but to do away with what was hindering us from obeying it. This is why the New Covenant involves God sending His Son to free us from seen so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Mosaic Law (Romans 8:3-4) and God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, God sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33).

Tell me.
Are we bound under the old law of Moses today?

Indeed.

Is the old law binding still?

Indeed, so all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so none of them will ever become old.

That means christians must obey the law of Moses or be lost.

Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and being a Christian is about being a follower of what he taught, so most Christians still follow much of what is commanded in the Mosaic Law, such they are not necessarily lost.

It would be extremely helpful if you first knew my beliefs before you attack my teaching.

Sorry if I've misunderstood any of your beliefs or attacked a position that you do not hold.

 

[Soyeong]

No

To fulfill any law. is to meet its standard. To never have broken even 1 part of that law.

James said if we keep the whole law yet stumble on one point. we are guilty of all.

Jesus kept every jot and tittle of the law. He never broke one command.

He did what we failed to do.

If you think that the definition in the Greek Lexicon is wrong, then you should explain why, especially when Jesus immediately proceeded to teach how to correctly obey God's law after he said that he came to fulfill it, though correctly doing what God's law instructs is meeting its standard. For example, the law instructs us to honor our parents, so if someone does something that honors them, then they are correctly meeting its standard. If someone does something that is dishonoring their parents, then they need to repent and return to obedience, which is what James was encouraging them to do. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so while Jesus was the only one who fulfilled it sinlessly, he was far from the only one to fulfill it.

Yes Jesus Knew God. Yet I have experienced and know God also.

You claims that the law was given to expose our sin and point us to Christ, not show us how to be righteous people, so I showed that the purpose of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus by being a doer of His character traits, such as by being a righteous people. Your response does not interact with what I said.

you have it wrong

You do not disregard the law. You move on to a better thing.

The law was not given to show us how to be good. it was written to expose our sin and convict us of those very sins.

If you move on to something different, then you are disregarding it. God's law could not be accurately describes as being holy, righteous, and good if it were not instructions for how to be holy, righteous, and good. It is impossible for the law to expose unrighteousness without also teaching how to be a doer of righteousness by contrast.

Now we move to a better law (the LAW OD L0VE) In which all the law can be fulfilled..

Everything in the Law of Moses is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so it is the Law of Love and the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, idolatry, theft, murder, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Law of Moses. Someone who was correctly living in obedience to the greatest two commandments of the Law of Moses would be indistinguishable from someone who was correctly living in obedience to the rest of the Law of Moses because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow, so love is not moving on to something better.