God's grace to forgive and transform is not conditioned to recognizing Jesus' deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection

[civic]

Let God be true and every man be made a liar. Gods word is truth- Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

What did Jesus say about Himself, Salvation, Forgiveness and Atonement ?

1- Jesus viewed His death as the Passover John 6:51- the blood on the doorposts saved the firsborn

2 -This is my blood of the Covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins- Matthew 26:28

conclusion: Jesus blood provides God to passover the sins committed and to be covered by the blood of Jesus. It also provided the forgiveness of our sins. Salvation 101. For there is Salvation in no one else. Only in Jesus name can salvation be found for there is no other name given by which men can be saved. Not Gods name, not the Fathers name, not the Spirits name- Jesus alone died for sins- no one else.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Joe]

And notice how the person tries to bypass the blood of Jesus in salvation. no shedding of blood , no forgiveness of sins. As we both know the Atonement of Jesus, the forgiveness of sins comes directly as Jesus taught from His own blood, the blood of the New Covenant which was given for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Its actually another gospel, a false gospel and christ, another jesus.

And as you and I both know the gospel cannot be compromised its salvific and essential/core doctrine that cannot be denied.

Amen! It is another false gospel dependent upon works and not the blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[civic]

Amen! It is another false gospel dependent upon works and not the blood of Jesus Christ.

ditto and its interesting that someone would try and be justified by works yet reject Gods sacrificial system. Its an oxymoron.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

no shedding of blood , no forgiveness of sins.

I have already proven by Scripture and reason that God does not demand blood in exchange for mercy. That His mercy is for free to all men who repent.
I have already shown that the references to blood made by Paul in his epistles are metaphors that appeal to the crucifixion of the old man (the old way of life) so that we can be born again (resurrected) into a new life.

Certainly, I can repeat the Scriptural and rational basis of my statements as many times as needed, for all interested in understanding why God forgives the Sikh and the Catholic priest who repented after having stolen 1000 USD.

And certainly, I can repeat as much as needed:

Any god who demands blood in exchange of mercy is an impostor.
Any belief on a god who demands blood in exchange of mercy is superstition.
Any demand to hold such belief as a condition for forgiveness is evil.

 

[civic]

I have already proven by Scripture and reason that God does not demand blood in exchange for mercy. That His mercy is for free to all men who repent.
I have already shown that the references to blood made by Paul in his epistles are metaphors that appeal to the crucifixion of the old man (the old way of life) so that we can be born again (resurrected) into a new life.

Certainly, I can repeat the Scriptural and rational basis of my statements as many times as needed, for all interested in understanding why God forgives the Sikh and the Catholic priest who repented after having stolen 1000 USD.

And certainly, I can repeat as much as needed:

Any god who demands blood in exchange of mercy is an impostor.
Any belief on a god who demands blood in exchange of mercy is superstition.
Any demand to hold such belief as a condition for forgiveness is evil.

This is just human reasoning

 

[Dizerner]

without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Heb. 9:22 NAS)

Make Scripture your authority over those who would rewrite it.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (Joh 3:16-18)

What does the bold red text say? Does it say an unbelieving Muslim is saved by what he does? Or does it say an unbelieving Muslim is condemned already for not believing in the name of God's own Son?

What does the text say in regard of the meaning of believing in Christ?
What does "believing in Christ" means?

The Sikh and Catholic priest who repent sincerely from their sins and become honest men have believed in Christ, and we can be sure about that because they are behaving like Christ. They are bearing the fruit of the Spirit... a thing that they can't work by themselves... a thing we could never attribute to Beelzebub.

I have declared many times in my responses this very simple basic truth of God's salvation, His forgiveness of sin and transformation of life: "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM WILL NOT BE PUT TO SHAME." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED." (Rom 10:9-13)

Paul was not fostering a superstition in Romans 10:9-13.
He knew that even "demons" can confess whatever theological statement they want to confess.
He knew that Jesus didn't want to be confessed as "Lord" with lips, but with a holy life.

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Mat 7:21,22)


So, what kind of "religion" you are in, Joe, that considers fair and just that millions of God's children who are Jews, Sikhs, Muslims or Bahai's (and perhaps Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons or Catholics) are thrown to the eternal flames of hell because of their religious confession?
Why are you not ashamed of such "religion"? Why don't you leave it immediately? That puzzles me. I just don't get it. Don't you see the foolishness and evil in such theology?

Do we need to bring 5-year-old children from the Sunday School to this Forum to share their understanding with us?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Let God be true and every man be made a liar. Gods word is truth- Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

What did Jesus say about Himself, Salvation, Forgiveness and Atonement ?

1- Jesus viewed His death as the Passover John 6:51- the blood on the doorposts saved the firsborn

2 -This is my blood of the Covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins- Matthew 26:28

conclusion: Jesus blood provides God to passover the sins committed and to be covered by the blood of Jesus. It also provided the forgiveness of our sins. Salvation 101. For there is Salvation in no one else. Only in Jesus name can salvation be found for there is no other name given by which men can be saved. Not Gods name, not the Fathers name, not the Spirits name- Jesus alone died for sins- no one else.

hope this helps !!!

The blood of Jesus symbolizes the life of Jesus, perfect in obedience, love, submission to the will of the Father.
If we "drink" that blood, if we make Jesus life and example our life, then we are participating in his crucifixion and resurrection.

The precious blood of Jesus was not a currency or coin. The infinitely precious blood of Jesus is not an antiseptic or soap.
So stop the superstition, please.

 

[civic]

without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Heb. 9:22 NAS)

Make Scripture your authority over those who would rewrite it.

Ta think lol

 

[civic]

without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Heb. 9:22 NAS)

Make Scripture your authority over those who would rewrite it.

Ta think. It’s unreal how some will deny black and white truth statements repeated in both testaments regarding the atonement , forgiveness of sins via the blood of the covenant

 

[civic]

The blood of Jesus symbolizes the life of Jesus, perfect in obedience, love, submission to the will of the Father.
If we "drink" that blood, if we make Jesus life and example our life, then we are participating in his crucifixion and resurrection.

The precious blood of Jesus was not a currency or coin. The infinitely precious blood of Jesus is not an antiseptic or soap.
So stop the superstition, please.

Projecting since you are the one denying the truth statements made by Jesus and the Apostles regarding His blood.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Heb. 9:22 NAS)

Make Scripture your authority over those who would rewrite it.

The same author that wrote the verse in 9:22, in reference to the blood of animals, wrote few verses later, in 10:4

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins."

Is it so difficult to understand that the True and Only God has never demanded blood in exchange for mercy?
Is it so difficult to understand that the blood of bulls and the blood of Christ are didactic tools used by God that made sense to the culture and traditions of people for whom the Gospel was revealed?
Is it so difficult to understand that Christ did not actually pay any price for us, but that such "price" is a metaphor of the redemption of slaves from their owners to set them free?

 

[Studyman]

without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Heb. 9:22 NAS)

Make Scripture your authority over those who would rewrite it.

Yes, men should make Scripture their authority.

Lev. 17: 10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people. 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood (Life of the unblemished flesh) that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Are we not told that only the "Blood" (Life of the Flesh) we are to partake of, is the blood and flesh of the Lord's Christ??

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood (Life of the flesh) and without shedding of blood (life of the flesh) is no remission.

Matt. 16: 25 For whosoever will save his life (of our flesh) shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life (of his flesh) for my sake shall find it.

Why? because "without shedding of blood (Life of the flesh) there is no forgiveness".

 

[Dizerner]

things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance is of Christ. (Col. 2:17)

 

[civic]

Yes, men should make Scripture their authority.

Lev. 17: 10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people. 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood (Life of the unblemished flesh) that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Are we not told that only the "Blood" (Life of the Flesh) we are to partake of, is the blood and flesh of the Lord's Christ??

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood (Life of the flesh) and without shedding of blood (life of the flesh) is no remission.

Matt. 16: 25 For whosoever will save his life (of our flesh) shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life (of his flesh) for my sake shall find it.

Why? because "without shedding of blood (Life of the flesh) there is no forgiveness".

Wow another one who denies Jesus blood for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[synergy]

What does the text say in regard of the meaning of believing in Christ?
What does "believing in Christ" means?

The Sikh and Catholic priest who repent sincerely from their sins and become honest men have believed in Christ, and we can be sure about that because they are behaving like Christ. They are bearing the fruit of the Spirit... a thing that they can't work by themselves... a thing we could never attribute to Beelzebub.


Paul was not fostering a superstition in Romans 10:9-13.
He knew that even "demons" can confess whatever theological statement they want to confess.
He knew that Jesus didn't want to be confessed as "Lord" with lips, but with a holy life.

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Mat 7:21,22)


So, what kind of "religion" you are in, Joe, that considers fair and just that millions of God's children who are Jews, Sikhs, Muslims or Bahai's (and perhaps Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons or Catholics) are thrown to the eternal flames of hell because of their religious confession?
Why are you not ashamed of such "religion"? Why don't you leave it immediately? That puzzles me. I just don't get it. Don't you see the foolishness and evil in such theology?

Do we need to bring 5-year-old children from the Sunday School to this Forum to share their understanding with us?

Your understanding of forgiveness is OT level. You are living in the past. That's what all Muslims do such as you. You call yourself a Baha'i but your statements clearly reak of Islamic beliefs. It's time that you caught up with what has been revealed directly to man by God Himself these past 2000 years. You can continue to scoff at the Gospel (Cross, Resurrection, Ascension, Pentecost) at your own risk. I highly advise against you continuing to do so.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance is of Christ. (Col. 2:17)

Correct. And such substance is the life in Christ… the life of freedom from the rule of the flesh. Not a trade based on blood.
The passage in Colossians 2 encompasses all symbolisms of the Law of Moses, not only animal sacrifices… Abstaining from pork, Circumcision and Sabbath included. Who thinks that abstaining from pork, cutting ones for skin and stopping work on Saturdays were a sort of atonement for sins? Yet, they are all shadows of the substance which is life in Christ.
This is the full text of the passage you are quoting. Look how the verse fits within the passage.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has resurrected together with Him, having forgiven you all sins. 14 He blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us and contrary to us, and He took it out of the way, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed authorities and powers, He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them by the cross.

16 Therefore let no one judge you regarding food, or drink, or in respect of a holy day or new moon or sabbath days. 17 These are shadows of things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Do not let anyone cheat you of your reward by delighting in false humility and the worship of angels, dwelling on those things which he has not seen, vainly arrogant due to his unspiritual mind, 19 and not supporting the head, from which the entire body, nourished and knit together by joints and sinews, grows as God gives the increase.

​

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you subject yourself to legalistic rules? 21 “Do not touch! Do not taste! Do not handle!” 22 These all are to perish with use and are aligned with the commandments and doctrines of men. 23 These things have indeed a show of wisdom in self-imposed worship and humility and neglecting of the body, but are worthless against the indulgence of the flesh.

 

[synergy]

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has resurrected together with Him, having forgiven you all sins. 14 He blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us and contrary to us, and He took it out of the way, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed authorities and powers, He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them by the cross.

Your Muslim presuppositions have utterly blinded you to the Cross. You quote verses that explicitly refer to the Cross but the word "Cross" never registers in your mind. Congratulations on being such a perfect Muslim.

 

[civic]

Your Muslim presuppositions have utterly blinded you to the Cross. You quote verses that explicitly refer to the Cross but the word "Cross" never registers in your mind. Congratulations on being such a perfect Muslim.

No blood, no cross, no cross , no salvation, no salvation no forgiveness, no forgiveness of sins then one is on their own standing before their maker on their own self righteousness with no Mediator.

I would hate to be in that position on judgement day.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Heb. 9:22 NAS)

Make Scripture your authority over those who would rewrite it.

Let’s make God our authority.
The Bible is an instrument for our spiritual development, so that we can be “equipped for every good work” (2 Tim 3:17)
The Word of God precedes the Bible by infinite time, and extends beyond the Bible for infinite time.
The Bible is not the Word of God, but a channel of the Word of God.

If we make God our authority, we will hear his voice in many ways, one of which is the collection of sacred books that we call “The Bible”.