God's grace to forgive and transform is not conditioned to recognizing Jesus' deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection

[praise_yeshua]

Dear @civic

Why did you like the post of @praise_yeshua ?

I wrote this myself. I never quote someone else without giving the respective credit.
Our brother @praise_yeshua, has attacked me from a moral perspective relentlessly, we know it.
But why did you like his post?

You're not moral superior to anyone. You're just a pretender. You prove this fact in every word you post here.

For example, you don't have me on ignore? Did you lie? Are you a liar?

You have no morality at all. None. You are a servant of Satan. Anyone that will denigrate Jesus Christ as you do, will do ANYTHING.

To every Christian here........ What James stated is true here....

Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

You may have written part of that post but not all of it. Do you know how to "copy and paste"?

 

[praise_yeshua]

So believing in the Jew-hating cut-throat Quran verses is not sin? Seriously? The Baha'i have masterfully completed their brain washing on you.

It more than just the servants of Satan in Baha'i. A little leaven.... leavens the entire loaf.

If he really believed what he teaches, he would forgive every word I've said to him before I even said it. He wouldn't lie about putting me on ignore and he certainly wouldn't blaspheme the worthy name of Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit is the Life Giver. Only if you're regenerated (Born Again), are you spiritually saved. That's what Pentecost is all about.

Some are "still in the womb". They have the appearance of "godliness" but in works (blaspheme) they deny HIM....

What will be your conversations with him be about? The Jew-hating cut-throat Quran verses?

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Again, I do not accept the religious labels of this world that you have adopted and use to demean or marginalize others who don't adopt the religious businesses of this world, or their philosophies you are here to promote.

Like calling me "Copeland". Is that a label meant to marginalize? Physician, heal thyself.

I don't believe in the ancient Pagan symbols that you have adopted, their high days that you promote, or the image of God you worship. You are free to trust in them, but I have come to know they have no power at all. The God and Father of the Lord's Christ has all the Power and gives His Spirit to whom HE promises to give it to. So you are free to follow the masses, and promote the Catholic sabbaths and their high days, and their symbols and their images of God in the likeness of men and their manmade shrines of worship made of wood and stone and their marketing strategies employed to grow their religious businesses and on and on. But I will not bow down to them, nor fear them, nor will I any longer yield myself a servant to obey them as is the tradition of this world's religious system. I will follow instead, the Jesus "of the bible" as HE instructs, and I will worship the Same God HE worshipped and instructed me to worship, and I will pray to the same God HE prayed to and instructed me to pray to. And you will label me and make judgments of me and mock me, and ridicule me just as Jesus said you would. This is one way I know I am on the right Path.

The symbol of the cross has been used by pagans. However, that doesn't make it pagan. Pagans use many things in an attempt to mimic Jesus Christ. Much like you're doing now.

I can actually compare you to Jesus Christ. I KNOW that you're not like Jesus Christ. You're a pretender. A fake. A tattered facsimile.

Jesus is so much BETTER than you. You even know you are. Just pretending. Just like the angels that fell. You know your end. That doesn't stop you from being what you are.

While I understand your judgments against everyone who doesn't adopt your religion, and where these judgments come from, I cannot turn from the living God just to receive praise from you. I hope you understand, but even if you don't, I will still believe "ALL" that is written and will continue to "Live by" the Words of God, as the Jesus "of the Bible" did and instructs me to do. You and Kenneth Copeland or any of this world's self-proclaimed "ministers of righteousness" can make all the judgments you want, promote whatever images of God or philosophies of this world you want, but I will not turn away from the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, or the Path Jesus walked and invited me to strive for. And would invite you to repent and consider doing the same. I believe it is a choice we all men must make.

I haven't praised you. Never. You're delusional. You're caught in your own illusion in your mind. There goes that "marginalization" effort again.....

Physician. Heal thyself.

I have long since passed this crossroad of which you speak, some 30 years ago now, when I walked in the religious philosophies of this worlds religious sects and businesses that you have adopted and are now promoting. The same as Paul, "Wherein in time past he walked according to the course (religions) of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"

You might be "past hope". You're certainly not an apostle. Nor are you like Paul. More pretending on your part.

But I thank God through His Son, the Christ Jesus "of the Bible", for the opportunity to share a Faith that has not been molded and shaped after the religious imaginations of the heart of men, after the traditions and philosophies of this world's religious sects and businesses that have plagued God's people since Eve listened to the "other voice" in the garden. Rather, a Faith grounded in belief and Trust in the One True God, and Jesus Christ, who this God sent.

Thank you again for the blessing you make available to me.

I thought God sent Mohammad? You have no right to name Jesus Christ when you believe what you believe about Him. You blaspheme His name.

So which is it. Mohammad or Jesus? You can't have both. Mohammad had epilepsy and hated humanity. He was like Satan. He only loved his own. Satan loves his own.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Good to know you wrote it yourself thanks

He didn't write it all.

Now the phrase "Let's read the ayah." is his or someone making the same mistake.

Taking the words of another and reworking it with some of your own is common practice today. I wouldn't even classify it as being entirely wrong or even "bad". However, I'm certain he does.

When we see that anyone isn't being true to themselves in their writings, we can ascertain that person really don't have any sense of a moral compass whatsoever.

 

[Johann]

He didn't write it all.

Now the phrase "Let's read the ayah." is his or someone making the same mistake.

Taking the words of another and reworking it with some of your own is common practice today. I wouldn't even classify it as being entirely wrong or even "bad". However, I'm certain he does.

When we see that anyone isn't being true to themselves in their writings, we can ascertain that person really don't have any sense of a moral compass whatsoever.

It's quotations from the Quran.

J.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The Holy Spirit is the Life Giver. Only if you're regenerated (Born Again), are you spiritually saved. That's what Pentecost is all about.

I agree... but I don't see how what you say invalidates the fact that God has forgiven and regenerated the saints of the Old Testament.
The Spirit of God has always acted on people, and there is abundant evidence in the Scriptures about that.
The Pentecost was not the initiation of any salvation period for humans.

Let me know if I am misunderstanding you

 

[praise_yeshua]

It's quotations from the Quran.

J.

You don't understand why I said what I said. A sincere and knowledgeable Muslim would never say....

"let's read the ayah".

Such comes from a poor understanding of how "ayah" is referenced.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

So believing in the Jew-hating cut-throat Quran verses is not sin? Seriously?

If someone takes any verse from the Quran or the Bible to do bad things, that's a sin.
Let me give you an example:

Based on certain verses, you believe that biological death originates from Adam's sin. Right?
Well, that's a mistake. It has no scientific, logical or ethical basis.
But that's not a sin. It is just a mistake. You won't have to ask forgiveness for having believed such thing.

The Baha'i have masterfully completed their brain washing on you.

It is one of the principles of the Baha'i Faith the independent search for truth.
So nothing could be "less Baha'i" than brainwashing.

What will be your conversations with him be about? The Jew-hating cut-throat Quran verses?

You may ask Him about that topic that has been of so much interest for you.
He may teach you about His favorite topic: God's mercy and generosity.

 

[Johann]

A sincere and knowledgeable Muslim would never say....

"let's read the ayah".

Such comes from a poor understanding of how "ayah" is referenced.

You sound very aggressive-


The critique that a sincere and knowledgeable Muslim would not say "let's read the ayah" appears to stem from how the term "ayah" is understood and used within Islamic traditions. In classical Islamic discourse, "ayah" (آية) refers to a verse of the Qur'an and carries a deeper theological meaning, often denoting a "sign" or "proof" of God's presence and wisdom, beyond just textual content.

A Muslim deeply rooted in Qur'anic studies would likely frame the reading of the Qur'an differently, emphasizing reverence and the proper context for engaging with its verses. For example:

Phrases like "Let us recite the Qur'an" or "Let us reflect on the ayah" are more common and reflect the devotional and contemplative manner in which Qur'anic verses are approached.
The Arabic language itself emphasizes the sacred nature of the Qur'an, and the term "ayah" is not typically used in an informal or casual manner but with reverence.
The critique could also imply that the phrase "let's read the ayah" reflects an overly simplistic or casual approach, potentially betraying a lack of understanding about the Qur'an's deeper interpretative traditions (Tafsir). Knowledgeable Muslims are expected to engage with the Qur'an through proper methods of study, often under the guidance of scholars, with attention to context, language, and classical commentaries. This ensures that the spiritual and linguistic depth of the "ayah" is fully appreciated.

Understanding the Term "Ayah" in Islamic Context
The Arabic term "ayah" (آية) means "sign," "miracle," or "proof." It is used in the Qur'an to refer to the verses of the scripture, but its meaning extends beyond textual demarcation. Each "ayah" is considered a divine sign pointing to the existence, wisdom, and power of Allah. Here’s a detailed explanation of its significance:

1. Linguistic Meaning
In Arabic, "ayah" derives from a root that connotes "sign" or "evidence." Its usage in the Qur'an includes:

Natural Signs: "And in the earth are signs for those who are certain [in faith]" (Surah Adh-Dhariyat, 51:20).
This highlights how "ayah" can refer to the signs in creation that indicate God's presence.
Miraculous Signs: "And We gave Moses nine clear signs..." (Surah Al-Isra, 17:101).
Here, "ayah" refers to miracles given as proof of prophethood.

Qur'anic Verses: The term "ayah" is also used to describe individual verses in the Qur'an, each considered a unit of divine revelation.

2. Reverence in Reference to Ayahs
In Islamic tradition, the Qur'an is seen as the Word of God (Kalam Allah), and its verses are recited and engaged with in a state of ritual purity and reverence. This is why:

Muslims often use respectful phrases like "Let us reflect upon this ayah" or "Let us recite from the Qur'an" rather than casual terms.

The Qur'an emphasizes contemplation of its ayahs: "Do they not reflect upon the Qur'an?" (Surah Muhammad, 47:24).

3. Engagement with Ayahs
Muslims are encouraged to approach the Qur'an with understanding and deep reflection, which includes:

Recitation with Tajweed: Proper pronunciation as per rules of Qur'anic recitation.

Tafsir: Studying scholarly commentaries to understand context, linguistic nuances, and interpretations.
Dhikr and Worship: Verses of the Qur'an are recited in daily prayers (Salah) and other forms of worship.

4. Contemporary and Devotional Use
While modern Muslims might casually refer to an "ayah" in English discussions as a "verse," in Arabic or formal Islamic discourse, the word retains its full spiritual and theological weight.

The Qur'an itself describes its verses as divine signs meant to guide believers: "These are the ayahs of Allah that We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His ayahs will they believe?" (Surah Al-Jathiyah, 45:6).

Conclusion
The critique of casually saying "let's read the ayah" may stem from an understanding that the Qur'an and its verses demand profound respect and deep engagement. While such a phrase might not always imply irreverence, knowledgeable Muslims would typically frame their reference to ayahs with greater care and intentionality, often pairing it with actions like recitation, reflection, or seeking scholarly insight.

To whom this may concern.

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You sound very aggressive-

You sound ignorant of what I said. What I said is true. I know more about this than you do. He got such ignorance from the internet. So have you.

The critique that a sincere and knowledgeable Muslim would not say "let's read the ayah" appears to stem from how the term "ayah" is understood and used within Islamic traditions. In classical Islamic discourse, "ayah" (آية) refers to a verse of the Qur'an and carries a deeper theological meaning, often denoting a "sign" or "proof" of God's presence and wisdom, beyond just textual content.

It is not part of the vernacular found in discussing the Quran. It is a simple as that. This comes from an outsider view. Not an insider view of Islam.

A Muslim deeply rooted in Qur'anic studies would likely frame the reading of the Qur'an differently, emphasizing reverence and the proper context for engaging with its verses. For example:

Phrases like "Let us recite the Qur'an" or "Let us reflect on the ayah" are more common and reflect the devotional and contemplative manner in which Qur'anic verses are approached.

Not entirely true but you're closer to understanding this than he is. That is what people do. They google and then repeat without actually knowing the subject well. Such knowledge is not their own. They haven't spent the time or effort to really know the subject. It is something an AI would return.

You are quick with your references. Experience is another issue. You are more experienced but you should have recognized this before you started criticizing me.

I know you don't like my methods and responses. Many people don't. However, there is meaning to what I say. I'm not entirely "crazy" yet. Like the old Waylon Jennings song"....

"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane"

 

[civic]

You sound ignorant of what I said. What I said is true. I know more about this than you do. He got such ignorance from the internet. So have you.



It is not part of the vernacular found in discussing the Quran. It is a simple as that. This comes from an outsider view. Not an insider view of Islam.



Not entirely true but you're closer to understanding this than he is. That is what people do. They google and then repeat without actually knowing the subject well. Such knowledge is not their own. They haven't spent the time or effort to really know the subject. It is something an AI would return.

You are quick with your references. Experience is another issue. You are more experienced but you should have recognized this before you started criticizing me.

I know you don't like my methods and responses. Many people don't. However, there is meaning to what I say. I'm not entirely "crazy" yet. Like the old Waylon Jennings song"....

"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane"

Luv the quote lol

 

[Johann]

You sound ignorant of what I said. What I said is true. I know more about than you do. He got such ignorance from the internet. So have you.

--and so have you.

It is not part of the vernacular found in discussing the Quran. It is a simple as that. This comes from an outsider view. Not an insider view of Islam.

If you are not careful I'll put Sam Shamoun on you.

Not entirely true but you're closer to understanding this than he is. That is what people do. They google and then repeat without actually knowing the subject well. Such knowledge is not their own. They haven't spent the time or effort to really know the subject. It is something an AI would return.

You are quick with your references. Experience is another issue. You are more experienced but you should have recognized this before you started criticizing me.

I know you don't like my methods and responses. Many people don't. However, there is meaning to what I say. I'm not entirely "crazy" yet. Like the old Waylon Jennings song"....

"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane"

I have my methods and resources-as you have your methods and resources.

J.

 

[DavidTree]

No! Your statement is wrong in several levels.

1. Seeking forgiveness is turning away from sin! Doctrinal Mistakes are not sins! There is no single example in the Bible of a person who was considered sinner for being mistaken.
2. Seeking forgiveness is turning towards God, and not to the cross or the Bible. Was David turning to the cross or the Bible when he sought forgiveness in Psalm 51? I have been forgiven by God without having turned to the cross or the Bible, and so millions like me.
3. God forgive us even when we cling to false religious beliefs. That includes you, me, and @DavidTree . Millions have died holding the same religion they were raised as children, and still forgiven and sanctified.
4. The Holy Quran is a revelation from God, just as the books of the Bible… but God forgives you even when you hold wrong ideas about this. God knows your heart. Someday you, @DavidTree and I will meet Prophet Muhammed in person, and we will be filled by love and thankfulness to Him.

SEE
C
SEE
C
SEE

eye C

TRUTH has a WAY of causing us to 'spill-the-beans'

Your beans are all over the place and only ADONAI YESHUA HaMASHIACH can gather you back to HIMSELF.

However, HE will not force you to SEE = u C?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

SEE
C
SEE
C
SEE

eye C

TRUTH has a WAY of causing us to 'spill-the-beans'

Your beans are all over the place and only ADONAI YESHUA HaMASHIACH can gather you back to HIMSELF.

However, HE will not force you to SEE = u C?

Good morning David

I didn’t understand your post. If possible please rephrase.

 

[civic]

SEE
C
SEE
C
SEE

eye C

TRUTH has a WAY of causing us to 'spill-the-beans'

Your beans are all over the place and only ADONAI YESHUA HaMASHIACH can gather you back to HIMSELF.

However, HE will not force you to SEE = u C?

I roasted lots of coffee beans last weekend I'm enjoying right now drinking my pourover coffee

 

[Johann]

You sound ignorant of what I said. What I said is true. I know more about this than you do. He got such ignorance from the internet. So have you.



It is not part of the vernacular found in discussing the Quran. It is a simple as that. This comes from an outsider view. Not an insider view of Islam.



Not entirely true but you're closer to understanding this than he is. That is what people do. They google and then repeat without actually knowing the subject well. Such knowledge is not their own. They haven't spent the time or effort to really know the subject. It is something an AI would return.

You are quick with your references. Experience is another issue. You are more experienced but you should have recognized this before you started criticizing me.

I know you don't like my methods and responses. Many people don't. However, there is meaning to what I say. I'm not entirely "crazy" yet. Like the old Waylon Jennings song"....

"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane"

I take it you were a Muslim? Speaking from experience?

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

--and so have you.

I'm actually friends with Muslims. I've known several for a very very long time. We frequently discuss Islam/Christianity. We get into some heated discussion but I love them. I tell those I love the Truth. No matter how difficult it might seem at the time to do it. We respect one another. We earned such through tolerating and consider each other's humanity. Living the Gospel requires honesty and integrity. It not the absence of mistakes that makes a difference in our lives. It is how we deal with them that gets others attention. Sincerity and Competence in all things brother. That should be our utmost goal.

If you are not careful I'll put Sam Shamoun on you.

I don't follow Muslim apologetics anymore. He is after "my time" in such.

I have my methods and resources-as you have your methods and resources.

J.

That we do. I pray you have success in "fishing" men!

 

[praise_yeshua]

I take it you were a Muslim? Speaking from experience?

J.

I've been among their culture for a long time.

 

[Johann]

I've been among their culture for a long time.

To "fish for men" effectively, we are called to be living examples of Christ's love and truth. Jesus Himself set the ultimate example, living out the Gospel in action-through His compassion, humility, and sacrifice. In Matthew 4:19, He says, "Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." This points to both the message we preach and the life we live. To witness to others, our actions must mirror the transformation Christ brings.

We are living epistles, as Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 3:2-3: "You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men." This emphasizes the importance of our testimony and the integrity of our lives-people are watching, and the way we live speaks louder than words.

As believers, we must avoid the trap of having "a form of godliness but denying its power" (2 Timothy 3:5). Our lives must be consistent with the Gospel we preach. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus warns that mere verbal profession without the corresponding fruit of the Spirit is insufficient. He stresses that it's not just about talking the talk, but walking the walk.

Key Principles for Effective Witness:
Live a Christlike life (1 Peter 2:21-23).
Be ready to share the hope in you (1 Peter 3:15).
Let your good works shine (Matthew 5:16).
Speak with love and gentleness (Ephesians 4:15).
Pray for boldness (Acts 4:29-31).

Our witness is most powerful when it’s both a declaration and a demonstration of Christ’s love. We must live out the gospel in such a way that others are drawn not just to our words, but to the life we live. Through this combination of life and message, we "fish" for men and invite them to come and see the difference Christ makes.

Online AND offline-would you agree @praise_yeshua?

J.

 

[Studyman]

Blaspheme........

The will of Jesus Christ was not contrary to God. You don't understand what you read................

Jesus had His own will, as all men have, at least the Jesus "of the Bible" did. One of the many things that made His Life so extraordinary is the Biblical fact that HE Chose God's Will, over His own from the beginning of His human life.

Jesus' actions were not contrary to God, because Jesus "learned obedience by the things HE suffered", and Jesus "CHOSE" to "do the will" of His Father, not His Own. At least this is what Jesus Himself said in the Testimony of Witness. And it is also written;

Is. 7: 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know "to refuse" the evil, and "choose" the good.

You can't understand this level of faith and devotion to the Righteousness of God because you don't really believe in HIM.

Ps. 45: 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, thy God, "hath anointed thee" with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

"Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, promote a religion which preaches that God anointed Jesus, "Because" HE was God, disguised as a man. Not because of the choices HE made to humble Himself to God.

Jesus warned me about these "Many" who come in His Name, through Matthew and Paul.