jeremiah1five
Active Member
Why do many do that?
Why do many misinterpret the Scripture in order to force non-Hebrews into the Hebrew covenant?
First, you bring up Abraham's Covenant.
And then you use the word "seed" in, what? Genesis 17? Which is in singular form and refers to Christ (as Saul did for us.)
Then you bring up Genesis 22:18 which is not part of the Abrahamic Covenant and try to make "nations" refer to what? Non-Hebrew Gentiles?
You are all over the map.
The Abraham Covenant is found described and recorded in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. There is no mention of non-Hebrew Gentiles in these passages. You conflate all those cites you make into the Abraham Covenant found described and recorded in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. But I'll do you one and let's look at Genesis 22:1 8.
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. Genesis 22:18.
There's one great, big, problem with trying to use this verse in Genesis 22:18 as referring to non-Hebrew Gentiles. The problem is non-Hebrews do not come from two Hebrew parents. As a matter of fact, non-Hebrews do not come from the loins of a Hebrew man mating with his half-sister, Sarah, whose father and Abe's father were brothers. And then when we get to Isaac, he married in the family also. And that family is the family of Eber, from which the Hebrew people derive the word "Hebrew."
And if you try to use Genesis 12:3 where it says:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:3.
That doesn't work, either. It doesn't work for the same reason Genesis 22:18 doesn't work. "In thee" refers to his Hebrew seed. It cannot mean that "in thee" referring to his biological seed is where non-Hebrews come out of or are born from.
Non-Hebrew offspring cannot be born of two Hebrew parents.
And "all families of the earth" refer to Abraham's family. Since he is the one being blessed, it makes perfect sense that his descendants are blessed also, especially when God says so. Abraham's family was great in number, too. If they ever had a family reunion I wonder if they can all fit in the Jordan Valley?
Here is a list of the families of Abraham that are blessed with faithful Abraham:
Ishmael had twelve sons or tribes. Ishmael is a direct descendant of Abraham through Hagar, the bondwoman. And then they were all married and had more grandchildren for Abraham. Then, these were married and had even more children, and so on.
Isaac had two sons, Esau and Jacob. Esau was married and had children, and these children had more children and so on. Although blessed with faithful Abraham the promises went through Jacob, who had children - twelve boys, who married and had more children. Talk about be fruitful and multiply!
And then Abraham had more children after Sarah died through Keturah, his 2nd wife: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah.
These married and had more children. From Jokshan came Sheba and Dedan.
Later, Moses married into Midian's family. More children.
Then there's Lot. But he is not a direct descendant of Abraham nor from his body or seed. Lot's daughters got Dad drunk and each 'laid with him' and from these came the Ammonites and Moabites.
The family of Eber was a great big, multiplied family and so was the descendants directly from Abraham. Everyone was somehow related through cousins, 2nd, 3rd, fourth cousins, etc., in the Middle Eastern deserts where they all lived.
The best that can come from Abraham's seed is mixed-race Hebrews. Like Joseph. He married an Egyptian woman and had at least two boys: Ephraim and Manasseh. They were mixed-race - Jew and Gentile.
And then also with the Assyrian and Babylonian Conquests of the ten northern kingdom tribes and the two southern kingdom tribes, 722 BC and 586 BC, respectively. By the time Jesus was born mixed-race Hebrews numbered in the millions and they all lived in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture. Many were uncircumcised and when they started getting born-again - because they were still the seed of Abraham only mixed with Gentile - the question of whether they should be circumcised was dealt with at the Jerusalem Council in AD 50.
Another thing...if you want to TRY to make Scripture say "Gentile" when there is no mention of Gentile and even when you TRY to make non-Hebrew to be born of two Hebrew parents - biologically IMPOSSIBLE - they are not called "Gentile" that you're TRYING to force into the Abrahamic seed, the other thing is that it is so very vague, and besides this, they would have to be positively identified as non-Hebrew and they would have to also be part of the Mosaic Covenant and under the Law, and Jesus would have to have a non-Hebrew Gentile represented at the last Passover meal to partake of the body and blood but the meal consisted of thirteen Jewish/Hebrew men - no Gentiles.
Then, you'd have to have "Gentiles" identified in Jeremiah's prophecy of a New Covenant but Gentiles are not named or mentioned.
There are too many problems you bring to the Abrahamic Table.
Sorry, but you are wrong on all counts.
And Revelation 5:9? OK, I'll give you a hearing:
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Revelation 5:9–10.
"Out of" is direct reference to where God had scattered His people. He scattered them among Gentiles. That's actually, the only place He can scatter them because there is only two groups of people on the planet: Jew and Gentile.
God blessed Abraham and the blessings and covenant was passed to Ishmael (blessing), and Isaac (blessing AND covenant.)
Because of God's covenant promises to Abraham it is his seed, his families, that are blessed with faithful Abraham. Non-Hebrew Gentiles, those of the nations of the world? They are nothing to God.
17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.
Non-Hebrew Gentiles got nuthin' coming to them of God.
Nada.
