The source if not the cause.
That is called desire.
Divinity.
Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".
- Thread starter MTMattie
- Start date
It seems that you think Adam didn't know that he should obey God? I don't think that is true at all. That doesn't make sense.
So then, in what sense was Jesus fully God? Or do you not think he was?
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Just asking.
Could ..."And we are sinful because of Adam. That’s why we sin,"... because God, the Heavenly Father, within his plans for the creation of life instilled the option within man of choice, all the while knowing that man would fail simply because it was part of His plan,... therefore as he always instructed them in the old testament about the required blood sacrifices to demonstrate the seriousness of sin and the need for atonement, as sin carries a grave penalty. That shedding of blood symbolizes the cost of sin and the principle of substitution, where an innocent life is given for the guilty.... However it was not sufficient as blood atonement in the old testament ... while commanded.... was temporary and was ultimately imperfect... That He sent us his Son to be our permanent sacrifice... because it was all a part of His plan from the very beginning of His idea for doing this that Jesus's blood covered those who believe ??????
Yes... I have a suggested reason for this, but it is for another thread and another time.
If you disagree.... fine. But I do not believe that the man Adam was made any differently then we are.... And I do believe that Adam was made for a very specific reason.
You say..." That’s why we sin, because we’re sinful in nature of our character." Is it possible for us not to sin? NO. ...Why? ...because it is part of our nature. Remove all temptations and stimulations, then maybe. But it is a true work.... this repentance thing... and we ARE told to repent.
I digress...
Bye...
TibiasDad
Active Member
He remains fully God, but he does not avail himself of his powers and authority. He relies on the Father to work through him, just as we must.
As a rich man has the ability to buy a first class ticket but he can buy a third class ticket and not avail himself of the privileges that he could exercise. That’s what Jesus did.
Doug
Jesus did say that all His knowledge, all His Power, and the Word's that HE spoke, were given to Him by His Father.
Mark 13: 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, "neither the Son", but the Father. 33 "Take ye heed", watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Well, I suppose they could argue that point with Jesus as well. "No Jesus, you aren't being honest here, you know us because you know everything." I have no reason to question HIS Words, since unless a man is given to Him for saving by His Father, the man will not be saved. It is written in the Holy Scriptures that there is a "Book of Life". It's perfectly understandable and it is biblical that Jesus would open the "Book of Life" to see whose name is written in it. If their name is not there, HE doesn't know them.
I'm OK with that.
There is certainly a relationship advanced and promoted in the Holy Scriptures, between God and man for the sake of salvation. God prophesied of this in the Law and Prophets.
Duet. 18: 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put "my words" in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto "my words" which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
So this man, who I believe to be Jesus, has come. And HE said to repent of our transgressions of God's laws, "Live by" every Word of His Father. He said to Worship His Father in Spirit and Truth. He said to pray to His Father, not like the hypocrites do in their man-made shrines of worship, or at the local restaurant to be seen of men, but from the heart in our private moments when no one is looking but God. How can I Live By His Father's Words, worship Him and pray to Him, if I am not learned of the Father. So a man is to first "Seek the Righteousness of God", and then walk in those good works that God before ordained that His people should "walk in" (Live By) them. This man is learned of the Father, not the "other voice" in the garden.
It is written that the Will of God, is that we believe in the One He Sent, which is the Christ Jesus in my understanding. Jesus said to "Live by" every word of God. This requires a person to be learned of the Father. I can not come to Him unless I am Learned of the Father. In this way a man Glorifies God, "As God", because we believe and are harkening to the Words of the Savior HE Sent, as HE Commanded in the Law and Prophets.
In the same fashion, this same person Glorifies the Christ who God Sent, by believing on Him enough to deny ourselves and the lusts of our flesh, to become "Doers" of His Sayings, and not hearers only. In this way man can be "known of God", and given to the Lord's Christ for saving. Paul teaches to be diligent and not drawn away by this world's religious traditions that had ensnared men before they were known of God.
Gal. 4: 8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Those "Christians" in Matt. 7 may have "professed to know God", may have even quoted "some" of God's Word to justify their own righteousness and their own Lawlessness. But Jesus points out that they were not given to HIM for cleansing, they were not learned of the Father, they did not "Live by" the Word's of God, which means they didn't believe on the ONE God Sent, which means they didn't Glorify the Son, which means they didn't Glorify God "As God". Jesus points out that even though they might have created a huge religious system that calls Jesus Lord, Lord, and built schools and hospitals and sent missions around the world, "In Christ's Name", and helped random poor people all "in Christ's Name", because they didn't "Yield themselves" to God and Live By His Instruction in righteousness, He didn't know them.
As it is written about the true members of God's church.
Eph. 2: 10 For we (Those who are Learned of the Father) are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, "which God" (Not man) hath before ordained that we should "walk in" (Live by) them.
But we don't know, and our time on earth is limited, even Jesus didn't know when the end would come.
Mark 13: 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, "neither the Son", but the Father. 33 "Take ye heed", watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
That is why it is written, in my view, "Today, if you hear His Voice harden not your hearts".
This is why Paul teaches:
2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
This is why Peter taught:
2 Pet. 3: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we,(Those who have "Yielded themselves" to God) according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may "be found of him" in peace, without spot, and blameless.
This is the Prize of the High calling of God which was in Christ Jesus. Nothing else matters according to this same God.
Ecc. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the "whole duty of man".
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
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Not a proof of his creation, an interpretation, [if] a 'soul' is a spirit in a body rather than free of the body.
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It mentions All the sons of GOD - which I was sure you considered yourself to be and here you are.
...and I have pointed out that a lot of important theology does not fit the model of specific textual evidence.
So you are a pre-reformation Catholic, perhaps an Augustinian at heart...
Orthodoxy is not truth, it is accepted opinion which may or may not be true:
or·tho·dox
/ˈôrTHəˌdäks/
adjective
- 1.
(of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved.
The soul is technically not the spirit. The human being, like all the rest of the animal kingdom, is a soul; but the human being, unlike all the rest of the animal kingdom, has a spirit formed in him by God.
IF any death of any kind is applied to any person it is due to their choice to be sinful in HIS sight, not anyone else's sin. Adam had no power to inflict any kind of death on others so by whose power or will was it that his sin fell upon a whole race of people by GOD's direct creation???
This theology makes it by GOD's power and will that we are created evil in Adam and unable to be HIS bride! It makes no sense no matter how you think of it: GOD created us to marry HIM but HE created us unable to marry HIM due to Adam from which only a few survive unto holiness???
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Infants have not sinned. They have not died spiritually.
His sin fell upon no one.
The problem is your adherence to the heresy of Original Sin.
What leaves the body at death? His soul, right? also called his spirit? They are the same thing...
2 Corinthians 5:8
Berean Standard Bible
We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
and Philippians 1:23
Berean Standard Bible
I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. in which the I is the person himself, not the body he has been inhabiting.
As one commentator says it:
The Bible presents a holistic view of humans, so at death, the body returns to the earth, while the spirit or soul goes to its final destination.
Psalm 146:4:
"His [a mortal man] spirit departs, and he returns to the earth.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 ...the spirit returns to God who gave it.
As I said above, the soul and the spirit are not precisely the same. Animals are souls (Hebrew - nephesh, see Genesis 1:21,24). Human beings are also souls (Hebrew - nephesh, see Genesis 2:7).
When speaking of human beings, the references to soul and to spirit are often used interchangeably.
I believe the best view is that human beings are souls who have a body and a spirit. Animals are souls that have a body.
No sir!
Original sin refers to the [***] theology that blames all sin in humans as proceeding from Adam's fall by the will of GOD, a theology I stand against fully as a blasphemy.
ImCo, we are only sinful by our own choice to rebel against
GOD. Adam's fall had no effect upon us at all. We are born into
Adam for his death, not his sin, so that Christ may die once for all elect sinners and not have to die for each one, one by one, over and over again, Rom 5:12.
Your problem, since you have gone personal
, is your adherence to the mistaken belief / interpretation that our conception is our creation and not just the method of sowing us into Adam, Matt 13:36-39.
