Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".

[Jim]

IIt is impossible to know what God’s plan would have been if Adam had not sinned.

That is a question that need not even be considered because it never even occurred to God that it would happen.

 

[Jim]

Why have 100% of humans chosen to disobey? Why hasn’t one single individual managed to say no to temptation if they are not prone to sinning as a prerequisite state of being?

Doug

Because as I said it took nothing less than the Son of God to choose to obey God perfectly. There was not one person up to the character and quality of the Son of God except the Son of God himself.

 

[TibiasDad]

That is a question that need not even be considered because it never even occurred to God that it would happen.

“I know the plans I have for you” doesn’t mean the plans will be realized as desired!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Because as I said it took nothing less than the Son of God to choose to obey God perfectly. There was not one person up to the character and quality of the Son of God except the Son of God himself.

That’s because Jesus was the only person outside of Adam, that is born without being naturally prone to sinning. He is the second Adam, not the 2 millionth Adam, but the only one not to ever sin.

Doug

 

[FreeInChrist]

That's what every single son of Adam and Adam wanted to do because we all were given a free will to choose to obey or not obey.

Absolutely, People got a taste of what they liked and enjoyed and since the baby boomers opened up everything for acceptance rather then condemnation the free will is truly the cause and effect of everything we see and hear.

People shacking up with people then going to Sunday church. Women having babies and not being married.
At one time gays were in a closet. Today gay seems normal compared to the Tyrannies running around. Mass murderers no longer on death row because states are removing that form of punishment. Remove the 10 commandments from schools and public buildings lest someone get offended. Stop a woman friend from lecturing in the high schools on abstinence from one high school access because a woman was upset that her daughter had to hear that. One teenaged girl who had a baby at age of 19, unwed and the father not in the picture told family members that God gave her this son so it saved her life.

And dont let me start on the shootings, and I am not supposed to want to grab a gun myself.... Well I do.

And I wont go into drugs .... and this is just the tip of what people are enjoying in 2025 and when family and friends die all the talk centers around how the folks are up in heaven reunited with their loved ones....

And nary a church says a word against. The closest is the one Catholic about 8 miles from here who often preached against abortion but nary a word against the sex that caused it.

Okay.... I'll stop because this is only a drop of what people want and they are not going to give it up and that is all because
humanity stopped reigning in the bad in their free wills.

That is the cause for every sin committed by everyone including Adam.

100,000 % correct

It took nothing less than the Son of God to obey everything perfectly.

But is it not ironic of those who claim faith, are unwilling to repent from what they want?

 

[FreeInChrist]

That’s because Jesus was the only person outside of Adam, that is born without being naturally prone to sinning. He is the second Adam, not the 2 millionth Adam, but the only one not to ever sin.

Doug

How do you know Adam did not have the nature to want to sin. I believe he had free will.

If you look at the one that has been called Lucifer. Also a creation of the Father... He was given free will and he was included to do as he would and it is said so were 1/3 of the angels.

Adam might not have had the inclination if the wife was not in the picture misleading him.

So... why did she? Did she not believe what Adam said about the fruit? Or was she beguiled by another voice she could talk to, who I believe likely took a bite of the fruit himself and did not die... so ?????/

 

[Jim]

That’s because Jesus was the only person outside of Adam, that is born without being naturally prone to sinning. He is the second Adam, not the 2 millionth Adam, but the only one not to ever sin.

Doug

Adam was naturally prone to sinning also; otherwise, he wouldn't have sinned.

 

[TedT]

Has nothing to do with Adams and Christs Federal Headship Truth in Rom 5

The federal headship was made up to try to explain the fallacy of the sinfulness of infants in the womb when supposedly newly created tabula rasa with no chance to choose to sin by their free will. Too bogus for sure...

 

[TedT]

No, we do not die physically because of Adam. We die physically because physical death is an integral feature of creation.

This makes Jesus words that death is the wages for sin to be malarky...death is not a consequence of life, it is a consequence of sinfulness.

 

[TedT]

If there is a cause for every effect, what is the cause of 100% of the human population sinning?

There is no answer that makes sense at all except our pre-earth existence and fall leading to only sinners being sown into mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

 

[TedT]

That's what every single son of Adam and Adam wanted to do because we all were given a free will to choose to obey or not obey. That is the cause for every sin committed by everyone including Adam.

It took nothing less than the Son of God to obey everything perfectly.

AMEN!

...but don't forget that some angels are both elect, 1 Timothy 5:21, and holy, Mark 8:38, and that too is by their free will decision to be that way. Though they are unable to be the Saviour of others, they have never sinned.

 

[TedT]

Why have 100% of humans chosen to disobey?

Only 100% of humans, not 100% of creation since the angels are holy by their free will. Only sinners are sent here into mankind for the redemption of the sinful elect.

 

[FreeInChrist]

This makes Jesus words that death is the wages for sin to be malarky...death is not a consequence of life, it is a consequence of sinfulness.

Not if he was referring to a spiritual death which now we know was Adams

 

[TedT]

It is impossible to know what God’s plan would have been if Adam had not sinned. To suggest any particular scenario is an exercise in futility because we simply cannot know.

There is no proof but...

if we consider that the bible story of GOD's interaction with man ends with HIS marriage to HIS church then it is logical to accept that HE created us to marry us. This implies that we all were created with a free will because without a free will a true marriage based upon love cannot happen. It also implies that everyone created in HIS image ie, able to be a proper bride for HIM, was created perfectly able to in fact be a proper bride for HIM ie not incapable by anything in their creation to be married to HIM.

So, when it came time for us to make the decision to tell us HIS plan, YHWH proclaimed the gospel as expressed in Col 1:23 which was the basis for election to salvation for those who put their faith in Him at that time as their saviour, and the reprobation unto condemnation of those who by their free will chose to rebuke HIM as a liar and therefore a false god, never believing in HIM as divine or as our saviour from sinfulness.

Thus HIS plan was in place and finalized before it was put into fruition by our creation as perfect candidates to be HIS bride, including the redemption of those who accepted HIM by their free will faith as their GOD and Saviour but who fell into sinfulness and the final banishment of the condemned reprobate.

Same plan fully followed no matter who sinned how and when.