That is a question that need not even be considered because it never even occurred to God that it would happen.
Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".
- Thread starter MTMattie
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Because as I said it took nothing less than the Son of God to choose to obey God perfectly. There was not one person up to the character and quality of the Son of God except the Son of God himself.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Absolutely, People got a taste of what they liked and enjoyed and since the baby boomers opened up everything for acceptance rather then condemnation the free will is truly the cause and effect of everything we see and hear.
People shacking up with people then going to Sunday church. Women having babies and not being married.
At one time gays were in a closet. Today gay seems normal compared to the Tyrannies running around. Mass murderers no longer on death row because states are removing that form of punishment. Remove the 10 commandments from schools and public buildings lest someone get offended. Stop a woman friend from lecturing in the high schools on abstinence from one high school access because a woman was upset that her daughter had to hear that. One teenaged girl who had a baby at age of 19, unwed and the father not in the picture told family members that God gave her this son so it saved her life.
And dont let me start on the shootings, and I am not supposed to want to grab a gun myself.... Well I do.
And I wont go into drugs .... and this is just the tip of what people are enjoying in 2025 and when family and friends die all the talk centers around how the folks are up in heaven reunited with their loved ones....
And nary a church says a word against. The closest is the one Catholic about 8 miles from here who often preached against abortion but nary a word against the sex that caused it.
Okay.... I'll stop because this is only a drop of what people want and they are not going to give it up and that is all because
humanity stopped reigning in the bad in their free wills.
100,000 % correct
But is it not ironic of those who claim faith, are unwilling to repent from what they want?
FreeInChrist
Active Member
How do you know Adam did not have the nature to want to sin. I believe he had free will.
If you look at the one that has been called Lucifer. Also a creation of the Father... He was given free will and he was included to do as he would and it is said so were 1/3 of the angels.
Adam might not have had the inclination if the wife was not in the picture misleading him.
So... why did she? Did she not believe what Adam said about the fruit? Or was she beguiled by another voice she could talk to, who I believe likely took a bite of the fruit himself and did not die... so ?????/
Adam was naturally prone to sinning also; otherwise, he wouldn't have sinned.
The federal headship was made up to try to explain the fallacy of the sinfulness of infants in the womb when supposedly newly created tabula rasa with no chance to choose to sin by their free will. Too bogus for sure...
There is no answer that makes sense at all except our pre-earth existence and fall leading to only sinners being sown into mankind, Matt 13:36-39.
Only 100% of humans, not 100% of creation since the angels are holy by their free will. Only sinners are sent here into mankind for the redemption of the sinful elect.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Not if he was referring to a spiritual death which now we know was Adams
There is no proof but...
if we consider that the bible story of GOD's interaction with man ends with HIS marriage to HIS church then it is logical to accept that HE created us to marry us. This implies that we all were created with a free will because without a free will a true marriage based upon love cannot happen. It also implies that everyone created in HIS image ie, able to be a proper bride for HIM, was created perfectly able to in fact be a proper bride for HIM ie not incapable by anything in their creation to be married to HIM.
So, when it came time for us to make the decision to tell us HIS plan, YHWH proclaimed the gospel as expressed in Col 1:23 which was the basis for election to salvation for those who put their faith in Him at that time as their saviour, and the reprobation unto condemnation of those who by their free will chose to rebuke HIM as a liar and therefore a false god, never believing in HIM as divine or as our saviour from sinfulness.
Thus HIS plan was in place and finalized before it was put into fruition by our creation as perfect candidates to be HIS bride, including the redemption of those who accepted HIM by their free will faith as their GOD and Saviour but who fell into sinfulness and the final banishment of the condemned reprobate.
Same plan fully followed no matter who sinned how and when.
...and to add:
once a person sins he is addicted to evil and can only sin from then on. When a sinner is sown into mankind, he is still enslaved to sin and needs a divine saviour to break sin's grip upon his mind.
ImCo: not naturally prone but enslaved to sin from a previous choice to rebel against GOD.
...because I think everyone was able to choose by their free will to be HIS perfect Bride by their created nature.
brightfame52
Active Member
This is error
TibiasDad
Active Member
If Adam was anything other than neutral, it would be prone toward good; he was ignorant of the meaning or effects of evil before the fall, which even Satan acknowledged when he used their ignorance against them saying, “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (Gen3:4)
Adam was neutral and his freedom could go either way according to his own choice. And that choice had to be manipulated by twisting the truth and playing it against their moral ignorance.
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
Free will is not a cause, it is a means of doing something. You either have the means to freely choose, or you don’t.
The causes of an action are largely the evidences presented that convince the mind/heart that an action done in a particular manner is preferred or desirable.
Then what is the difference between us as humans and the Son of God? Why could only one do successfully what everybody else over the course of time could not accomplish?
If it takes nothing less than the Son of God “to obey everything perfectly”, what do humans lack that make them “less than the Son of God”?
Doug
