Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".

So believing in Him...having Faith in Him... repenting... or immersion baptism are not needed?

GOOD TO KNOW.
Baptism is an ordinance, not required for salvation. However, it is good to be baptized, if possible, for external show of identification of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ in the public eye. If you try to hinge baptism with salvation it becomes works and scripture refutes that.
 
@TomL

Repentance is the responsibility of man

The regenerated person, not the natural man. And when the command is given to the regenerated man it causes him to repent, it was a gift given by Christ Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

The regenerated man or woman is active in their conversion, which is Gods Gift

But the unregenerate man is dead in sin and adam under condemnation of the law, and frankly has no right to repent , he is under the curse o the law.
 
@TomL



The regenerated person, not the natural man. And when the command is given to the regenerated man it causes him to repent, it was a gift given by Christ Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

The regenerated man or woman is active in their conversion, which is Gods Gift

But the unregenerate man is dead in sin and adam under condemnation of the law, and frankly has no right to repent , he is under the curse o the law.
Sorry, unrepentant men are not regenerated.

Acts 3:19 (LEB) — 19 Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be blotted out,

Luke 13:3 (LEB) — 3 No, I tell you, but unless you repent you will all perish as well!

Mark 1:15 (LEB) — 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”
 
Sorry, unrepentant men are not regenerated.

Acts 3:19 (LEB) — 19 Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be blotted out,

Luke 13:3 (LEB) — 3 No, I tell you, but unless you repent you will all perish as well!

Mark 1:15 (LEB) — 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”
Brightfame52 said the unregenerate man is dead in sin and also Acts 3:19 . KJV- Repent ye therefore, and be converted , that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
 
God is not the cause of sin.

James 1:13–14 (LEB) — 13 No one who is being tempted should say, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desires.

1 John 1:5 (LEB) — 5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce to you, that God is light and there is no darkness in him at all.

Deuteronomy 32:4 (LEB) — 4 The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are just; he is a faithful God, and without injustice; righteous and upright is he.

Psalm 145:17 (LEB) — 17 Yahweh is righteous in all his ways, and loyal in all his works.

Job 34:10 (LEB) — 10 “Therefore, listen to me, people who have sense: far be it from God that he should commit wickedness and that Shaddai should do wrong.
Amen
 
Brightfame52 said the unregenerate man is dead in sin and also Acts 3:19 . KJV- Repent ye therefore, and be converted , that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
I believe Brightfame holds that a man is regenerated before he can repent.

Acts 3:19 calls for repentance and conversion

It is addressing unsaved Jews who killed Christ

Acts 3:12–20 (LEB) — 12 And when he saw it, Peter replied to the people, “Men and Israelites, why are you astonished at this? Or why are you staring at us, as if by our own power or godliness we have made him walk? 13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus, whom you handed over and denied in the presence of Pilate, after he had decided to release him. 14 But you denied the Holy and Righteous One and demanded that a man—a murderer—be granted to you. 15 And you killed the originator of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses! 16 And on the basis of faith in his name, his name has made this man strong, whom you see and know, and the faith that is through him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all. 17 And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. 18 But the things which God foretold through the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he has fulfilled in this way. 19 Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be blotted out, 20 so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and he may send the Christ appointed for you—Jesus,

So he is wrong once again
 
God is not the cause of sin.
That did not answer the question that I asked.

If I had asked “Is God the cause of sin?” Then your answer would have been perfect. Unfortunately, the actual question was …

So what power/being external to God and creation compelled (first cause) sin to exist?
 
That did not answer the question that I asked.

If I had asked “Is God the cause of sin?” Then your answer would have been perfect. Unfortunately, the actual question was …

So what power/being external to God and creation compelled (first cause) sin to exist?
Well, according to Calvinist theology, God determines all that transpires, so I posted a denial of such erroneous theology.

Seeing that you discount both God and man (creation) there was just no point to your question.
 
Seeing that you discount both God and man (creation) there was just no point to your question.
:rolleyes:
Fine, let’s include God … so GOD created evil … is that your answer? [now can you see why God was excluded?]

Let’s include Creation … everything that was made was made by JESUS (John 1 said that), so Jesus is the “First Cause” (uncaused creator) of all of creation … therefore, if anything in creation is the “original source” of “evil”, then JESUS is the actual “First Cause” (by creating creation) and creation is the “Second Cause” (the created thing that causes something else) of “evil” … is that your answer? [now can you see why Creation was excluded?]

So what is the uncreated thing that is the source of evil? Why does evil exist at all?
That is the metaphysical and philosophical question.

The Bible claims that GOD is the only uncreated thing … the only source that is eternal and has no origin.
Do with that whatever you will. Far greater minds than mine have pondered that issue. I just asked their question because @civic brought up the paradox.
 
:rolleyes:
Fine, let’s include God … so GOD created evil … is that your answer? [now can you see why God was excluded?]

Let’s include Creation … everything that was made was made by JESUS (John 1 said that), so Jesus is the “First Cause” (uncaused creator) of all of creation … therefore, if anything in creation is the “original source” of “evil”, then JESUS is the actual “First Cause” (by creating creation) and creation is the “Second Cause” (the created thing that causes something else) of “evil” … is that your answer? [now can you see why Creation was excluded?]

So what is the uncreated thing that is the source of evil? Why does evil exist at all?
That is the metaphysical and philosophical question.

The Bible claims that GOD is the only uncreated thing … the only source that is eternal and has no origin.
Do with that whatever you will. Far greater minds than mine have pondered that issue. I just asked their question because @civic brought up the paradox.
evil is not a creation, its a result or consequence of disobedience, not trusting God, ie sin
 
So you knew that and made the false claim anyway?
What in the world are you talking about?

Jeremiah 18:7–10 (LEB) — 7 One moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to uproot, and to tear down, and to destroy it. 8 But if that nation turns back from its evil that I have threatened against it, then I will relent concerning the disaster that I planned to do to it. 9 And the next moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to build, and to plant it. 10 But if it does evil in my sight, to not listen to my voice, then I will relent concerning the good that I said I would do to it.

Ezekiel 18:21–24 (LEB) — 21 But if the wicked returns from all of his sins that he has done and he keeps all of my statutes and he does justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die! 22 All of his transgressions that he committed will not be remembered against him. Through his righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I delight by any means in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord Yahweh, and not at his turning from his way, so that he lives? 24 And when the righteous turns from his righteousness, so that he does injustice, and does all of the detestable things that the wicked do, then will he live because of all of his righteousness that he did? Those things will not be remembered because of his infidelity that he displayed, and because of his sin that he committed. Through them he shall die.

Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you. 31 Throw away from yourselves all of your transgressions that you committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and new spirit, and so why will you die, house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”

Ezekiel 33:13–15 (LEB) — 13 When I say to the righteous, ‘Certainly he will live,’ and he trusted in his righteousness, and he turns and he does injustice, all of his righteousness will not be remembered, and because of his injustice that he did, because of it he will die. 14 And when I say to the wicked, ‘Certainly you will die,’ but he returns from his sin and he does justice and righteousness— 15 for example, the wicked returns a pledge for a loan, he restores stolen property, he goes in the statutes of life so as not to do injustice—certainly he will live; he will not die.

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,

Luke 13:24 (LEB) — 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able to,

Deuteronomy 4:29–32 (LEB) — 29 But from there you shall seek Yahweh your God and will find him, if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 In your distress when all these things have found you in the latter days, then you will return to Yahweh your God, and you will listen to his voice. 31 For Yahweh your God is a compassionate God; he will not abandon you, and he will not destroy you, and he will not forget the covenant of your ancestors that he swore to them. 32 “Yes, ask, please, about former days that preceded you from the day that God created humankind on the earth; ask even from one end of the heaven up to the other end of heaven whether anything ever happened like this great thing or whether anything like it was ever heard.

Total depravity is clearly called into question in these verses

I made no false claim.

I posted the above statement, and you stated

No one has ever said otherwise.

That seems like you also called Total Depravity into question.

And I stated, "Ok, good."
 
What in the world are you talking about?



I made no false claim.

I posted the above statement, and you stated



That seems like you also called Total Depravity into question.

And I stated, "Ok, good."
What in the world are you talking about? LOL How did I call total depravity into question?
 
Your own words



When I had just stated bolded

Total depravity is clearly called into question in these verses
Wrong. My answer was when you stated "God is not the cause if sin". Total depravity is Bibilical and i would never call it into question. So clearly we were talking past each other.
 
:rolleyes:
Fine, let’s include God … so GOD created evil … is that your answer?
Nope, I am not a Calvinist and thus do not hold that God has determined everything.

Surely you had to know better than that.




[now can you see why God was excluded?]

Not from a Calvinist theology though in mine

Let’s include Creation … everything that was made was made by JESUS (John 1 said that), so Jesus is the “First Cause” (uncaused creator) of all of creation … therefore, if anything in creation is the “original source” of “evil”, then JESUS is the actual “First Cause” (by creating creation) and creation is the “Second Cause” (the created thing that causes something else) of “evil” … is that your answer? [now can you see why Creation was excluded?]
No God's creation of man does not make him the cause of sin.

Remember you excluded him from the start.
 
Wrong. My answer was when you stated "God is not the cause if sin". Total depravity is Bibilical and i would never call it into question. So clearly we were talking past each other.
Well my view and comment was clear and the scriptures I posted showed total depravity as unbiblical.

And you never attempted to actually address the verses I posted, which, BTW, never included the words you claim above

Repentance as well as belief still remain a responsibility of man.

Jeremiah 18:7–10 (LEB) — 7 One moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to uproot, and to tear down, and to destroy it. 8 But if that nation turns back from its evil that I have threatened against it, then I will relent concerning the disaster that I planned to do to it. 9 And the next moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to build, and to plant it. 10 But if it does evil in my sight, to not listen to my voice, then I will relent concerning the good that I said I would do to it.

Ezekiel 18:21–24 (LEB) — 21 But if the wicked returns from all of his sins that he has done and he keeps all of my statutes and he does justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die! 22 All of his transgressions that he committed will not be remembered against him. Through his righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I delight by any means in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord Yahweh, and not at his turning from his way, so that he lives? 24 And when the righteous turns from his righteousness, so that he does injustice, and does all of the detestable things that the wicked do, then will he live because of all of his righteousness that he did? Those things will not be remembered because of his infidelity that he displayed, and because of his sin that he committed. Through them he shall die.

Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you. 31 Throw away from yourselves all of your transgressions that you committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and new spirit, and so why will you die, house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”

Ezekiel 33:13–15 (LEB) — 13 When I say to the righteous, ‘Certainly he will live,’ and he trusted in his righteousness, and he turns and he does injustice, all of his righteousness will not be remembered, and because of his injustice that he did, because of it he will die. 14 And when I say to the wicked, ‘Certainly you will die,’ but he returns from his sin and he does justice and righteousness— 15 for example, the wicked returns a pledge for a loan, he restores stolen property, he goes in the statutes of life so as not to do injustice—certainly he will live; he will not die.

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,

Luke 13:24 (LEB) — 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able to,

Deuteronomy 4:29–32 (LEB) — 29 But from there you shall seek Yahweh your God and will find him, if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 In your distress when all these things have found you in the latter days, then you will return to Yahweh your God, and you will listen to his voice. 31 For Yahweh your God is a compassionate God; he will not abandon you, and he will not destroy you, and he will not forget the covenant of your ancestors that he swore to them. 32 “Yes, ask, please, about former days that preceded you from the day that God created humankind on the earth; ask even from one end of the heaven up to the other end of heaven whether anything ever happened like this great thing or whether anything like it was ever heard.

Total depravity is clearly called into question in these verses
 
Well my view and comment was clear and the scriptures I posted showed total depravity as unbiblical.

And you never attempted to actually address the verses I posted, which, BTW, never included the words you claim above
The scope of this thread is not total depravity. Start a new thread and i will be happy to help.

The point of my post was not address your faulty understanding of said proof texts.
 
The scope of this thread is not total depravity. Start a new thread and i will be happy to help.

The point of my post was not address your faulty understanding of said proof texts.
Um, you did nothing at all to prove my understanding faulty. You failed to address a single verse, And you responded
in a manner that accidentally affirmed what I posted.

And btw your comment

Repentance is granted or given by God as is belief.

Is a statement in affirmation of total depravity and was the reason for my posting of the verses I had.
 
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