brightfame52
Active Member
Mans will is never Free from the Sovereign Predetermined will of God, yet man makes a responsible deliberate choice!
Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".
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brightfame52
Active Member
Mans will is never Free from the Sovereign Predetermined will of God, yet man makes a responsible deliberate choice
As always, you do not deal with the scriptures posted.
Man's evil acts are from man, not God
James 1:13 (NASB 95) — 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
And man has the capability mentioned
Deuteronomy 30:11 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you.
Deuteronomy 30:14 (LEB) — 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it.
Deuteronomy 30:19 (LEB) — 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Luke 11:28 (LEB) — 28 But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and follow it!”
Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.
Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you. 31 Throw away from yourselves all of your transgressions that you committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and new spirit, and so why will you die, house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”
Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”
Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Acts 8:22 (LEB) — 22 Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and ask the Lord if perhaps the intent of your heart may be forgiven you!”
Acts 17:30 (LEB) — 30 Therefore although God has overlooked the times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,
2 Corinthians 7:9 (LEB) — 9 now I rejoice, not that you were grieved, but that you were grieved to repentance. For you were grieved according to the will of God, so that you suffered loss in no way through us.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (LEB) — 10 For grief according to the will of God brings about a repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, but worldly grief brings about death.
2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
brightfame52
Active Member
I agree with those verses. None of them contradict what I posted. Nobody is ever free from God's Sovereign predetermined will for them. Be wise like James here James 4:14-16
14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil
Paul Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
God worketh all things [included is man's will] after the counsel of His OWN WILL
No, you do not, for
As always, you do not deal with the scriptures posted.
Man's evil acts are from man, not God
James 1:13 (NASB 95) — 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
And man has the capability mentioned
Deuteronomy 30:11 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you.
Deuteronomy 30:14 (LEB) — 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it.
Deuteronomy 30:19 (LEB) — 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Luke 11:28 (LEB) — 28 But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and follow it!”
Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.
Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you. 31 Throw away from yourselves all of your transgressions that you committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and new spirit, and so why will you die, house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”
Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”
Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Acts 8:22 (LEB) — 22 Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and ask the Lord if perhaps the intent of your heart may be forgiven you!”
Acts 17:30 (LEB) — 30 Therefore although God has overlooked the times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,
2 Corinthians 7:9 (LEB) — 9 now I rejoice, not that you were grieved, but that you were grieved to repentance. For you were grieved according to the will of God, so that you suffered loss in no way through us.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (LEB) — 10 For grief according to the will of God brings about a repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, but worldly grief brings about death.
2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
Here you assume what predestination is
But biblically, believers are predestined to eternal life and unbelievers to punishment.
Darrell L.
Active Member
Correct, God is not the author of sin. It is man that introduces it. God, no doubt, could have hindered it, but for wise ends He allows it. We know also how sin spreads itself. It is always active. It multiplies and propagates itself.
Every fallen being becomes a tempter, seeking to ruin others — to drag them down to the same death into which he has himself been driven.
And I fine that is exactly what Calvinism attempts to do accomplish.
Yes, And that is contrary to God's love for the world and desire for the salvation of all.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
So where does that leave the salvation of Judas?
atpollard
Active Member
Romans 1:18-32 [NLT]
18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. 23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32 They know God's justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes I do and I agree with those scriptures
brightfame52
Active Member
That's your problem to figure out
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Allow me to repeat....
@brightfame52 said
I asked
IOW since @brightfame52 posted that statement...
IF... God worketh all things [ included is man's (Judas' will] after the counsel of His own Will...((meaning God is in control of everything)) (( and seemingly if God is in control of everything that happens, including human decisions, and that all events unfold according to His divine plan and purpose )) then Judas was chosen to be Christ's betrayer.
Having lived all that time with hearing Him Judas chose to sell Him out...
OR
Was it that God did a little nudging for Judas' betrayal?
Where does that leave the salvation of Judas
Nope
You don't believe this
No, you do not, for
As always, you do not deal with the scriptures posted.
Man's evil acts are from man, not God
James 1:13 (NASB 95) — 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
And man has the capability mentioned
Deuteronomy 30:11 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you.
Deuteronomy 30:14 (LEB) — 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it.
Deuteronomy 30:19 (LEB) — 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Luke 11:28 (LEB) — 28 But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and follow it!”
Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.
Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you. 31 Throw away from yourselves all of your transgressions that you committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and new spirit, and so why will you die, house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”
Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”
Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Acts 8:22 (LEB) — 22 Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and ask the Lord if perhaps the intent of your heart may be forgiven you!”
Acts 17:30 (LEB) — 30 Therefore although God has overlooked the times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,
2 Corinthians 7:9 (LEB) — 9 now I rejoice, not that you were grieved, but that you were grieved to repentance. For you were grieved according to the will of God, so that you suffered loss in no way through us.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (LEB) — 10 For grief according to the will of God brings about a repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, but worldly grief brings about death.
2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
or this
But biblically, believers are predestined to eternal life and unbelievers to punishment.
atpollard
Active Member
Romans 1 holds the answer (imho).
18. “wicked people suppress the truth”
21. “Judas knew God, but wouldn't worship him as God”
21. “As a result, Judas mind became dark and confused.”
22. “Claiming to be wise, Judas instead became an utter fool.”
24. “So God abandoned Judas to do whatever shameful things his heart desired.”
26. “That is why God abandoned Judas to his shameful desires.”
28-32. “Since Judas thought it foolish to acknowledge God, God abandoned Judas to his foolish thinking and let Judas do things that should never be done. Judas’ life became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. Judas was a backstabber, hater of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. Judas invented new ways of sinning, and he disobeyed his Savior. Judas refused to understand, broke his promises, was heartless, and had no mercy. Judas knew God's justice required that those who do these things deserve to die, yet Judas did them anyway.”
God permitted (refused to restrain) the evil that was natural to man (Judas) and worked according to God’s plan and purpose. Just like the brothers selling Joseph into slavery, Pottifer’s wife lying about Joseph, and Joseph living in slavery … “you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good” (Genesis 50:20).
brightfame52
Active Member
Judas is no exception from Eph 1:11
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes
Nope
Nope
You don't believe this
No, you do not, for
As always, you do not deal with the scriptures posted.
Man's evil acts are from man, not God
James 1:13 (NASB 95) — 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
And man has the capability mentioned
Deuteronomy 30:11 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you.
Deuteronomy 30:14 (LEB) — 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it.
Deuteronomy 30:19 (LEB) — 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Luke 11:28 (LEB) — 28 But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and follow it!”
Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.
Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you. 31 Throw away from yourselves all of your transgressions that you committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and new spirit, and so why will you die, house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”
Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”
Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Acts 8:22 (LEB) — 22 Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and ask the Lord if perhaps the intent of your heart may be forgiven you!”
Acts 17:30 (LEB) — 30 Therefore although God has overlooked the times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,
2 Corinthians 7:9 (LEB) — 9 now I rejoice, not that you were grieved, but that you were grieved to repentance. For you were grieved according to the will of God, so that you suffered loss in no way through us.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (LEB) — 10 For grief according to the will of God brings about a repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, but worldly grief brings about death.
2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
or this
But biblically, believers are predestined to eternal life and unbelievers to punishment.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yep
Nope
Nope
You don't believe this
No, you do not, for
As always, you do not deal with the scriptures posted.
Man's evil acts are from man, not God
James 1:13 (NASB 95) — 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
And man has the capability mentioned
Deuteronomy 30:11 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you.
Deuteronomy 30:14 (LEB) — 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it.
Deuteronomy 30:19 (LEB) — 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Luke 11:28 (LEB) — 28 But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and follow it!”
Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.
Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you. 31 Throw away from yourselves all of your transgressions that you committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and new spirit, and so why will you die, house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”
Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”
Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Acts 8:22 (LEB) — 22 Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and ask the Lord if perhaps the intent of your heart may be forgiven you!”
Acts 17:30 (LEB) — 30 Therefore although God has overlooked the times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,
2 Corinthians 7:9 (LEB) — 9 now I rejoice, not that you were grieved, but that you were grieved to repentance. For you were grieved according to the will of God, so that you suffered loss in no way through us.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (LEB) — 10 For grief according to the will of God brings about a repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, but worldly grief brings about death.
2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
or this
But biblically, believers are predestined to eternal life and unbelievers to punishment.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes I believe those verses
