Divine Nature, Human Nature, and Matter.

[synergy]

1] Col 2:9 declares that the fullness of the Godhead indwells Christ bodily. In other words, the Divine Nature of Christ fully permeates Christ's human nature.

(Col 2:9) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.​

​

My questions to you:​

1. Does that fact impact human nature in any way?
2. Does it cure human nature?
3. What are your thoughts?

2] As for us, 2 Pet 1:4 and Eph 3:19 say that we as Christians can partake of Divine Nature:

(2 Pet 1:4) through which He has given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, so that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.​

​

(Eph 3:19) and to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fullness of God. ​

​

My question for you:​

1. Does the partaking of Divine Nature impact us in any way?

3] As for matter, we have the case of the Burning Bush and Christ's clothing blazing white during the Transfiguration (Luke 9:29).

(Luke 9:29) And as He prayed, the appearance of His countenance was altered, and His clothing was dazzling white. ​

My questions for you:​

1. Can matter be permeated with Divine Nature or were they just illusions?
2. Does that say anything about the wine and bread of the Lord's Supper or even the waters of your Baptism?

 

[Fred]

1] Col 2:9 declares that the fullness of the Godhead indwells Christ bodily. In other words, the Divine Nature of Christ fully permeates Christ's human nature.

(Col 2:9) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.​

​

My questions to you:​

1. Does that fact impact human nature in any way?
2. Does it cure human nature?
3. What are your thoughts?

1. It teaches Jesus is both God and man.
2. His sacrificial life presents a cure for human nature, but not all will receive this cure.
3. See 1 and 2.

2] As for us, 2 Pet 1:4 and Eph 3:19 say that we as Christians can partake of Divine Nature:

(2 Pet 1:4) through which He has given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, so that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.​

​

(Eph 3:19) and to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fullness of God. ​

​

My question for you:​

1. Does the partaking of Divine Nature impact us in any way?

1. It allows us to lead a victorious life in praise and utter dependance upon God's most infinitely holy Name.

3] As for matter, we have the case of the Burning Bush and Christ's clothing blazing white during the Transfiguration (Luke 9:29).

(Luke 9:29) And as He prayed, the appearance of His countenance was altered, and His clothing was dazzling white. ​

My questions for you:​

1. Can matter be permeated with Divine Nature or were they just illusions?
2. Does that say anything about the wine and bread of the Lord's Supper or even the waters of your Baptism?

1. Matter can be used to reflect His glory.
2. I never considered that, but would be interested in hearing just how.

 

[Diserner]

I would interpret that verse somewhat differently.

First of all, those who say the incarnation is what cured the human race, are badly mistaken. It is the Work of the Cross that is the fundamental cure to the human nature.

Of course partaking of the Divine Nature impacts us—it changes us and unites us to Christ. However, admist that union we can still join ourselves to idols and fill God's temple with sin.

We might well speculate that the supernatural can readily react with the natural, but I would not say this means the Divine Nature was in matter, which has no spirit or soul.

Also this probably doesn't need to be said here, but I would avoid the practice of some Charismatics to "grave soak" to suck up the anointing on dead people, based on Elisha's bones.

 

[civic]

hmmm the cure ?

just what is cured ?

is it sin ?

also what is the definition of a miracle ?

is salvation a miracle ?

 

[Rockson]

I would interpret that verse somewhat differently.

First of all, those who say the incarnation is what cured the human race, are badly mistaken. It is the Work of the Cross that is the fundamental cure to the human nature.

I 'd hold that you needed both. The incarnation provided the legal clearance(some may not like that term but I think there is some truth to it) the legal clearance for God to come as a man and do what he did at the cross. The God Man reconciled all other men to God but it took a God man to do it, thus the incarnation.

 

[Diserner]

I 'd hold that you needed both. The incarnation provided the legal clearance(some may not like that term but I think there is some truth to it) the legal clearance for God to come as a man and do what he did at the cross. The God Man reconciled all other men to God but it took a God man to do it, thus the incarnation.

A necessary component is not necessarily the most substantial component.

Scripture points us to that old rugged Cross at the power and center of our salvation, whatever Christ needed to qualify for it.

 

[civic]

I 'd hold that you needed both. The incarnation provided the legal clearance(some may not like that term but I think there is some truth to it) the legal clearance for God to come as a man and do what he did at the cross. The God Man reconciled all other men to God but it took a God man to do it, thus the incarnation.

Yes only capable of happening because He was God- And as we know His Person is Divine which gives in infinite value and capability to atone for all sin. God became man for that very purpose- to DIE, Suffer DEATH. Christ who is God is who died for us which many stumble over. So yes I will say it again here God died for our sins. Some cannot stand that saying and don't understand the meaning of death and try and twist it into spiritual death.

 

[Rockson]

A necessary component is not necessarily the most substantial component.

Scripture points us to that old rugged Cross at the power and center of our salvation, whatever Christ needed to qualify for it.

I get what you're saying but I'd add the resurrection was crucial too.....If Christ didn't arise we'd be left dead in our sins. Of course when people say many times The Old Rugged Cross that's meant in the minds of most that it incorporates the Resurrection as well.

 

[Diserner]

twist it into spiritual death.

I'm very glad you think God became a man to suffer unto death for our sins and atoned through his infinite value.

I think you'll find if you logically extrapolate out those ideas it might lead you to some fuller and deeper truths concerning it.

 

[civic]

I get what you're saying but I'd add the resurrection was crucial too.....If Christ didn't arise we'd be left dead in our sins. Of course when people say many times The Old Rugged Cross that's meant in the minds of most that it incorporates the Resurrection as well.

Yes the Apostles boldly preached His Resurrection from the dead.

 

[synergy]

I would interpret that verse somewhat differently.

First of all, those who say the incarnation is what cured the human race, are badly mistaken. It is the Work of the Cross that is the fundamental cure to the human nature.

The Incarnation affected Christ's human nature by permeating it with divinity.

Persons sin. Human nature doesn't sin. So it's persons that are saved through the Cross.

Question: How was death conquered by Christ?

Of course partaking of the Divine Nature impacts us—it changes us and unites us to Christ. However, admist that union we can still join ourselves to idols and fill God's temple with sin.

We might well speculate that the supernatural can readily react with the natural, but I would not say this means the Divine Nature was in matter, which has no spirit or soul.

How do you explain the Burning Bush? Many dismiss matter because of their Platonistic beliefs.

Also this probably doesn't need to be said here, but I would avoid the practice of some Charismatics to "grave soak" to suck up the anointing on dead people, based on Elisha's bones.

I've never heard of Charismatics doing a "grave soak". Do they flood graves with water?

 

[civic]

The Incarnation affected Christ's human nature by permeating it with divinity.

Persons sin. Human nature doesn't sin. So it's persons that are saved through the Cross.

Question: How was death conquered by Christ?

How do you explain the Burning Bush? Many dismiss matter because of their Platonistic beliefs.

I've never heard of Charismatics doing a "grave soak". Do they flood graves with water?

And His Person is Divine- Impeccable

 

[synergy]

1. Matter can be used to reflect His glory.
2. I never considered that, but would be interested in hearing just how.

If God's Divine nature can permeate matter, like the Burning Bush, then why can't it permeate bread and wine to make the Eucharist that Christ mentions so often, particularly in the Gospel of John?

 

[Diserner]

Question: How was death conquered by Christ?

By fully embracing and experiencing all that death is, and yet still coming out on top.

How do you explain the Burning Bush? Many dismiss matter because of their Platonistic beliefs.

I would see the manifestation as superimposed on top of the bush, rather that infused in it.

I've never heard of Charismatics doing a "grave soak". Do they flood graves with water?

The idea is, to lie on top of the graves of past Christians for hours to let their anointing "soak" in.

 

[synergy]

By fully embracing and experiencing all that death is, and yet still coming out on top.

Agreed. Christ conquered death by the sheer fact that he's God. Hades could not possibly hold down the Uncreated Word of God.

I would see the manifestation as superimposed on top of the bush, rather that infused in it.

Are you saying that Divinity and matter do not mix? If that's the case then how are our bodies (composed of matter) ever transformed by God?

The idea is, to lie on top of the graves of past Christians for hours to let their anointing "soak" in.

I'm not approving at all of that practice but it's interesting that during the Catacombs period there were many accounts of Christians performing liturgies above martyr's graves.

 

[Diserner]

Are you saying that Divinity and matter do not mix? If that's the case then how are our bodies (composed of matter) ever transformed by God?

Hm.

I think God is in everything already somehow, he upholds all things, so he is already in matter.

His glory or manifest presence is not of a material or physical nature, however, and we know him by the spirit.

Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh.
Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh,
yet now we know Him thus no longer. (2 Cor. 5:16 NKJ)

 

[Fred]

If God's Divine nature can permeate matter, like the Burning Bush, then why can't it permeate bread and wine to make the Eucharist that Christ mentions so often, particularly in the Gospel of John?

God didn't become a burning bush.

 

[synergy]

Hm.

I think God is in everything already somehow, he upholds all things, so he is already in matter.

Agreed.

His glory or manifest presence is not of a material or physical nature, however, and we know him by the spirit.

Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh.
Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh,
yet now we know Him thus no longer. (2 Cor. 5:16 NKJ)

Jesus' flesh has been transformed into an immortal body so nobody is to keep knowing him according to how he was before the Resurrection & Ascension. That goes along with what I said.

 

[synergy]

God didn't become a burning bush.

Why would you even think that shallow?

When the Holy Spirit is in you, would you say that the Holy Spirit became you? No. Then why would you think so shallow of God when it comes to the Burning Bush?

 

[Fred]

Why would you even think that shallow?

You were the one who made the comparison with bread and wine.
Why would you think that shallow?

When the Holy Spirit is in you, would you say that the Holy Spirit is you? No. Then why would you think so shallow of God?

False analogy.