Um, that isn't what it is. It is related to those passages about the very end of time, the consummation of everything, dealing with that which Daniel could not understand. What is important about those seven seals is the imageray of the scroll with seven seals. That, in legal terms, speaks of God's last will and testament, or, since God doesn't die, God's statement of Jesus' inheritance. Each seal is something to be completed before the holder takes full possession.
Christian Destinies
- Thread starter mikesw
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I do not deny there are some bloodline continuities around Iran and Iraq. I just said there is no longer Babylon. Don't mix things together that are unrelated.
That is really off track. We have what Daniel shared in a sealed fashion. He understood what we read there. This is not like a country having top secret documents in a vault. We have the scriptures as they exist.
Babylon is in Iraq, and Saddam Hussein actually rebuilt it. Not exactly as he wanted it, but he saw himself as a reincarnated Nebuchadnezzar.
Okay. And a guy in the nut house says he is Napolean. We can now go to the next issue.
Selah
Active Member
Nah…I ain’t buying it. Daniel was told to keep the prophecies sealed because it wasn’t time yet. See?
Selah
Active Member
By the way @armylngst , the Olivet Prophecy is the same as the 7 seals. Remember? This Prophecy is for the end time, and as I see it, we’re in those times now!
The point is, Babylon exists. It is possible it could become a viable city again. It is something to keep in consideration.
No. The known imagery of the scroll of seven seals is as a legal document that is the last will and testimony of a great leader. That is what we have. It is Jesus' inheritance by will of the Father. In the legal document sense, each seal is something to be completed before the worthy recipient takes material ownership of whatever is written in the will. So whatever the will is of the person who created the document is fulfilled once the seals are dealt with.
I'm a futurist premillennialist. I believe Matthew 24 is about a future time that may be rapidly approaching. (I would say is rapidly approaching.) However, I am not sure that the seven seals is the great tribulation, or comes just before. I believe the great tribulation is the final 3 1/2 years of the 70th week, since Jesus says that the abomination of desolation occurs at the midpoint of the 70th week, as is mentioned in Matthew 24.
We could have 200 Babylons. That would not mean it relates to scripture. There also would be no reason to create Babylon again just to destroy it. We have to exclude concepts that make no logical sense.
Babylon in Rev 14:8 concerns "sexual immorality" which analogy God uses of Jerusalem turning to other gods. Jerusalem was supposed to be the city of glory to God, but it catered to the Roman Empire instead. Revelation sounds like a dramatic divorce so that it would be impossible for God to restore an impure Jerusalem and people as his wife again. (I share this in relation to first century status of Jews to make a point derived from that, not to denigrate Jews who live today.)
Selah
Active Member
Let’s do some digging …
Daniel 12:4 (NKJV) “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
Daniel 12:9 (NKJV) And he said, “Go [your way,] Daniel, for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Revelation 10:1-2 (NKJV) 1 I saw still another mighty angel coming down from heaven, clothed with a cloud. And a rainbow [was] on his head, his face [was] like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire. 2 He had a little book open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea and [his] left [foot] on the land,
Revelation 10:8 (NKJV) Then the voice which I heard from heaven spoke to me again and said, “Go, take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel who stands on the sea and on the earth.”
In the book of Revelation (the unveiling), the little book is unsealed.
Look here what’s written in the book of Ezekiel:
Ezekiel 2:8-10 (NKJV) 8 “But you, son of man, hear what I say to you. Do not be rebellious like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.” 9 Now when I looked, there was a hand stretched out to me; and behold, a scroll of a book [was] in it. 10 Then He spread it before me; and [there was] writing on the inside and on the outside, and written on it [were] lamentations and mourning and woe.
s e l a h
Selah
Active Member
What’s important about the seven seals is that they give us the knowledge of the end-time events. God wants us to know all these things. He tells us: “But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.” So let’s just go ahead and read Mark 13 (the Olivet Prophecy/the seven seals).
| The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age (Matt. 24:3-14; Luke 21:7-19 ) 3 ¶ Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, |
| 4 “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?” |
| 5 ¶ And Jesus, answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. |
| 6 “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many. |
| 7 “But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled; for such thingsmust happen, but the end is not yet. |
| 8 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles.fn These are the beginnings of sorrows. |
| 9 ¶ “But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be beaten in the synagogues. You will be broughtfn before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them. |
| 10 “And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. |
| 11 “But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditatefn what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. |
| 12 “Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. |
| 13 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. |
| The Great Tribulation (Matt. 24:15-28; Luke 21:20-24 ) 14 ¶ “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’fn spoken of by Daniel the prophet,fn standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. |
| 15 “Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. |
| 16 “And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. |
| 17 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! |
| 18 “And pray that your flight may not be in winter. |
| 19 “For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. |
| 20 “And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. |
| 21 ¶ “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. |
| 22 “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. |
| 23 “But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand. |
| The Coming of the Son of Man (Matt. 24:29-31; Luke 21:25-28 ) 24 ¶ “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; |
| 25 “the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. |
| 26 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. |
| 27 “And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. |
| The Parable of the Fig Tree (Matt. 24:32-35; Luke 21:29-33 ) 28 ¶ “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. |
| 29 “So you also, when you see these things happening, know that itfn is near—at the doors! |
| 30 “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. |
| 31 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. |
| No One Knows the Day or Hour (Matt. 24:36-44; Luke 21:34-36 ) 32 ¶ “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. |
| 33 “Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. |
| 34 “It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. |
| 35 “Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— |
| 36 “lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. |
| 37 “And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!” |
Why not. It fits prophecy perfectly. Babylon was the capital city, perhaps even a major birthplace, of paganism. So, why not have it be the final burial place of paganism? (I know it isn't the birthplace, but definitely the capital.)
However that "sexual immorality" has to do with paganism. That paganism infected Jerusalem/Israel.
You miss all the prophecies in the Old testament where God had prophets do just that. Marry the prostitute. Every time she is unfaithful, take her back. However, the Old Testament is more clear when it says that God will make a new covenant with Israel. Right now Israel is sitting under (well, sort of) a broken Mosaic Covenant, by which they do not receive the blessings of the Abrahamic Covenant. However, God is going to make a New Covenant with Israel, by which they do receive the blessings of the Abrahamic Covenant.
That was not Daniel though.
Revelation 10
"10 I took the little book out of the angel’s hand and ate it, and in my mouth it was sweet as honey; and when I had eaten it, my stomach was made bitter. 11 And they *said to me, “You must prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.”"
In other words what was in the book was about many peoples, nations, tongues and kings. There is a chance that since John wasn't told to open the book, but to eat it, that it isn't what we are looking for. We are not yet at the time of the end.
uh. Revelation does not show God marrying Babylon. So the reach of that did not extend to the New Testament when it became the church who is the bride of Christ. The prophets pointed to the end of God's patience. Rom 3:25 shows that God only was patient (forbearance in passing over their sins) with them until the time of Christ.
I do figure you are familiar with a bit of the OT prophecies in the way you are responding here. So that is duly noted.
Israel is not Babylon. That is where you may be having an issue. The New Testament Babylon is something completely different. They will be destroyed, however, if you read through Revelation, you will find that Jerusalem/Israel are around for the whole book. It is quite possible that we could be babylon, though I doubt that. Consider the promise God made to make a new covenant with Israel. It's a promise. If you read what comes with that new covenant, you should easily detect that it hasn't happened yet.
yeah. no. I do not see Israel around. Jesus is the new covenant. Maybe you are confusing Israel with the New Jerusalem. We already see that the Jerusalem has been replaced after the old one was destroyed. Paul mentions the "Jerusalem above" in connection with the followers of Christ while showing the judgment on the old one in Gal 4:21-31.
Revelation 19. The beasts, the kings of the earth and their armies are setup against... Jerusalem and Israel. Jesus returns just before what would be the final battle, and destroys them. Consider that if Jesus waited until all was fulfilled, then there would have been no life left on Earth as He said of the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24. That storyline would have been the armies gathering, then they attack and wipe out Israel/Jerusalem, and then Jesus returns and wipes them out. No life left. However, Jesus comes back before Satan can finish.
