Are we told to worship Jesus or are we told to worship God?

[civic]

I shared this with our mens discipleship group.

Jesus heart and prayer for believers in the High Priestly Prayer for His disciples and those who would believe in Him through their message.

John 17- I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. 20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Paul captures Jesus heart below

Ephesians 4:11-16- So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.


Romans 12:3-21- For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. 4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t care what you have done @civic. That’s all on you and your life with God; its doesn’t involve me.

““When you are angry, don’t let that anger make you sin,” and don’t stay angry all day. Don’t give the devil a way to defeat you. Whoever has been stealing must stop it and start working. They must use their hands for doing something good. Then they will have something to share with those who are poor.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭26‬-‭28‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Ephesians 4:26-28 “When you are angry, don’t let that anger make you sin,” and don’t stay angry all day. Don’t give the devil a way to defeat you. Whoever has been stealing must stop it and start working. They must use | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Vers

“When you are angry, don’t let that anger make you sin,” and don’t stay angry all day. Don’t give the devil a way to defeat you. Whoever has been stealing must stop it and start working. They must use

bible.com

Your setting up a false message and premise about being angry, we can be angry. And sometimes we are angry at things we see and hate or dislike… like neglect, or mental, or sexual abuse just for some more examples.

 

[civic]

Sounds like you are justifying being angry.

Are you claiming to have the exact same righteous sinless anger Jesus displayed ?

or is it the flesh and its anger driven by emotion ( things not going your own way ) and not a decision as in agape love as you put it ?

 

[MatthewG]

Sounds like you are justifying being angry.

Are you claiming to have the exact same righteous sinless anger Jesus displayed ?

or is it the flesh and its anger ?

Hey man all I did was post the scripture.

Take it or leave it right? I shared the Bible. Or only your sharing is correct?

 

[MatthewG]

““When you are angry, don’t let that anger make you sin,” and don’t stay angry all day. Don’t give the devil a way to defeat you. Whoever has been stealing must stop it and start working. They must use their hands for doing something good. Then they will have something to share with those who are poor.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭26‬-‭28‬ ‭ERV‬‬


Paul wrote this to the people in Ephesus was he right was he wrong? Should we just cut this section out, just tell me what you want me to do get rid of my anger forever. Paul had also a thorn in his side he prayed to get over but it was never gotten over.

 

[civic]

Hey man all I did was post the scripture.

Take it or leave it right? I shared the Bible. Or only your sharing is correct?

why did you choose a passage on anger when we were discussing love ?

bait n switch ?

evading the topic of love ?

 

[MatthewG]

Man the whole context of the Bible needs to be understood… @civic. Are you telling me that Yahweh? Who expressed anger. We aren’t made in his image? If we are made in his image we also part take in expressing anger towards unrighteousness but are patient…

I hate the way you and other guy commune with me, but I am over it cause I don’t expect anyone to treat me fairly or greatly when standing up for what’s right. @civic, Yahweh knows what’s going on though.

 

[civic]

Man the whole context of the Bible needs to be understood… @civic. Are you telling me that Yahweh? Who expressed anger. We aren’t made in his image?

Are you Holy/ Sinless and know from Gods thoughts how and why He displays righteous anger ?

Are your thoughts His thoughts ?

Is His ways higher than yours ?

Do you know Gods motives ?

 

[MatthewG]

I know what Gods will is, Yes.

 

[civic]

Man the whole context of the Bible needs to be understood… @civic. Are you telling me that Yahweh? Who expressed anger. We aren’t made in his image? If we are made in his image we also part take in expressing anger towards unrighteousness but are patient…

I hate the way you and other guy commune with me, but I am over it cause I don’t expect anyone to treat me fairly or greatly when standing up for what’s right. @civic, Yahweh knows what’s going on though.

Ephesians 4:31,32
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice


Colossians 3:8
But now you must put aside all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips

 

[MatthewG]

Sorry you don’t get to let people know when you’re upset with them; or whatever it may be @civic you know? It’s happened to me too, and I’m not you. I don’t wanna be you, and I want you to be you. So you continue on forward friend in due time, we’ll pass on from here and hopefully meet in the next life.

 

[civic]

I know what Gods will is, Yes.

Here is Gods will

Ephesians 4:31,32
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice

Colossians 3:8
But now you must put aside all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips

 

[MatthewG]

Ephesians 4:31,32
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice

Yep, but you live in a body of flesh. You can only do this by laying your life down with Jesus and dying to yourself… and allowing him to live and come through.

you can’t stop those things from coming off your flesh but doing that but that also doesn’t mean your not gonna have a crappy day in which you do end up mad… or someone just ignores you completely like a half dead man in the street.

Let’s not try to go tit for that because it all still right here….

““When you are angry, don’t let that anger make you sin,” and don’t stay angry all day. Whoever has been stealing must stop it and start working. They must use their hands for doing something good. Then they will have something to share with those who are poor. When you talk, don’t say anything bad. But say the good things that people need—whatever will help them grow stronger. Then what you say will be a blessing to those who hear you. And don’t make the Holy Spirit sad. God gave you his Spirit as proof that you belong to him and that he will keep you safe until the day he makes you free. Never be bitter, angry, or mad. Never shout angrily or say things to hurt others. Never do anything evil. Be kind and loving to each other. Forgive each other the same as God forgave you through Christ.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭26‬, ‭28‬-‭32‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Ephesians 4:28-32 Whoever has been stealing must stop it and start working. They must use their hands for doing something good. Then they will have something to share with those who are poor. When you talk, don’t say a | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Vers

Whoever has been stealing must stop it and start working. They must use their hands for doing something good. Then they will have something to share with those who are poor. When you talk, don’t say a

bible.com

 

[MatthewG]

@civic I don’t have any issues with hatred. I know it well civic. A hatred to want you to die is uncalled for… so, while I hate the way you communicate with me sometimes because of the many spam posts…

I don’t hate you as a human being and I understand why we do the things we do to some degree from self reflection; Jesus points out many of all our own faults.


But no one better just cause you get a little less mad than someone else I get the scripture helps but people make the choice to lay down their life at the cross…

And to say they don’t have anymore struggle
Period whatsoever is just untruth from the darkness.

 

[MatthewG]

In fact doesn’t Jesus go through many hardships. Well we should expect to go through hardships to, and we get angry but we don’t need to let that drive us to murder.

 

[Studyman]

This is Paul's Doctrine.

You can read 1 Tim 4:13, and you'll note that He mentions His Doctrine to His Convert.

You are not the first person who "Professes to know God", that accused Paul of bringing his own religion which contradicted the Law and Prophets. There are self-proclaimed "ministers of righteousness" who have accused Paul of this very thing since He turned to the God and Father of the Lord's Christ. Here is what he said about those who, like you, were preaching that Paul brought his own doctrine.

Acts 24:10 Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself:

11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship.

12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:

13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

"Pauline Theology" is the more contemporary Christian description.

You have adopted this religious philosophy from one of the many religious sects and businesses which existed in this world God placed you in. But for me, I want to hear what Paul himself said he teaches and believes, not what you or Kenneth Copeland, or Joel Osteen says he teaches or believes.

Here is what Paul, by a vision from the Spirit of the Christ, "of the Bible" actually taught to both Jew and Gentile.

Acts 26: 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they (ALL) should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
The Light wasn't Paul's doctrine, but the doctrine of HIM that Paul "Yielded himself a servant to obey". Rom. 6:16.

So, when Paul says to you..>"Be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ".....He's not only describing his Christianity, but he's describing also His Doctrine.

Yes, he taught nothing different than what the Law and Prophets instructed, at least, according to his own words.

Ez. 18: 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; (Repent) and make you a new heart and a new spirit ( "And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.) for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Rom. 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the "righteous judgment of God"; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing "seek for" glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

If you followed Paul, you would yield yourself a servant to Obey God, as Paul did, and as Jesus did. Not promote falsehoods about Paul bringing his own doctrine.

Its the same that He taught the other Apostles in Acts 15.

Acts 15: 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, (Law of Moses) and from fornication, (Law of Moses) and from things strangled, (Law of Moses)and from blood. (Law of Moses)

Is that it? Where will they learn what is "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness": That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (Meet for repentance)?

He tells you this as well. But you don't really believe him.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

And why would both Jesus and Paul send the Gentiles to hear Moses and the Prophets? Because "All scripture is given by inspiration of God"

Peter refers to this that Paul teaches as "Scripture".. equal to the Jew's Torah..

The Torah wasn't inspired by the Jews, but the deceiver would convince as many as will listen to him, that it is. Peter, by the Spirit if Christ, saw this religion that you are promoting coming, where religious men promote falsehoods about the Scriptures, including Paul's letters.

2 Peter 3: 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, "as they do also" the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, "beware lest ye also", being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

"Pauline Theology" is a deception. Paul taught the Law and Prophets, that he called The Gospel of Christ. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[Studyman]

Sounds like you are justifying being angry.

Are you claiming to have the exact same righteous sinless anger Jesus displayed ?

or is it the flesh and its anger driven by emotion ( things not going your own way ) and not a decision as in agape love as you put it ?

What are you saying here Civic? That a man who has sinned is no longer capable of righteous anger? If your philosophy is true, then why are God's children told to be angry, but sin not?

 

[civic]

What are you saying here Civic? That a man who has sinned is no longer capable of righteous anger? If your philosophy is true, then why are God's children told to be angry, but sin not?

Here is Gods will

Ephesians 4:31,32
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice

Colossians 3:8
But now you must put aside all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips

 

[MatthewG]

Here is Gods will

Ephesians 4:31,32
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice

Colossians 3:8
But now you must put aside all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips

Hello Civic, while you share this as being Gods will, there are passages also in the written letter to the people in Thessalonica.

While sure, dying to the flesh and being conformed into the image of the Son; bi-curiously by and through the Spirit of Yeshua Christ in you, allowing his virtues to come forth.

A lot of mistakes and misfortune has come through apologetics no doubt about it; and playing church, and even knowing everything in life doesn’t please Yahweh; it’s only faith which does: either way this more on Gods will for people “in” Christ. However that doesn’t mean you won’t get angry…

“And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; and to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves. Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God
in Christ Jesus concerning you. Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. Brethren, pray for us. Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss. I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. The first epistle unto the Thessalonians was written from Athens.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5‬:‭12‬-‭28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

1 Thessalonians 5:28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. The first epistle unto the Thessalonians was written from Athens. | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. The first epistle unto the Thessalonians was written from Athens.

bible.com

Otherwise we might as well write our own bibles and just do that when it comes to apologetics and the scripture pulling here or there does disorientate the readers perspective on the whole… sometimes I wish the Bible never had verse points or chapter breaks. I’m glad for most of the introductions given and found in the letter writings; I find them important people living then who had to live very strict; but not everyone gonna just be successful all the time of not getting upset or mad; the point is not to let the anger lead you to harm, or murder or malign another person; but you know that already and continue to go against it as though scripture says we should never be angry. Neither should have Jesus or even Yahweh his Father for that matter… hell I guess he should be happy with Israel in that situation cause hell all he ever does is love.

We agree it’s about love and faith; but that doesn’t mean you always be at peace though we can have peace for a lifetime through Yeshua.

To long don’t read:
Just skip past it, who cares.

 

[Johann]

Hello Civic, while you share this as being Gods will, there are passages also in the written letter to the people in Thessalonica.

While sure, dying to the flesh and being conformed into the image of the Son; bi-curiously by and through the Spirit of Yeshua Christ in you, allowing his virtues to come forth.

A lot of mistakes and misfortune has come through apologetics no doubt about it; and playing church, and even knowing everything in life doesn’t please Yahweh; it’s only faith which does: either way this more on Gods will for people “in” Christ. However that doesn’t mean you won’t get angry…

Stay strong and keep the faith @MatthewG
Johann.