Are we Predestined?

[FreeInChrist]

I am unfamiliar with this “god of Calvin(ism)” of which you speak. I only offer observations on the God of the Bible as He has revealed Himself in His Holy Word.

• God sends the rain and sun and gives breath to his children and enemies alike … and calls on us to follow his example by doing good to all to whom we are able.
• God is “long suffering” towards those that do wrong, allowing them to store up wrath for the day of wrath … and calls on us to do the same, leaving vengeance for God and the day of wrath.
• God calls on all men (without exception) to repent (turn from evil towards good) and, irrespective of the fact that “no one seeks God” and those who sin “flee from the light” … God calls upon us to do the same by forgiving “seventy times seven” all who ask.

Sit back and digest this. THIS IS BIBLICAL.

The Bible does teach the reprobate will be damned.

In most traditional Christian interpretations, the Bible teaches that the “reprobate” (those finally rejected by God) will face damnation.

However, how this is understood varies widely among theological traditions.

Those finally rejected by God in most Christian traditions outside strict Calvinism, refers specifically to people who first chose to reject God by their own free will.

Here is a clear breakdown.

The word reprobate (Greek: ἀδόκιμος adokimos, “rejected,” “unapproved”) appears in Scripture, but the theological concept of “the reprobate” is most developed in:​

Calvinist/Reformed theology: Those whom God passes over and allows to remain in sin, ultimately leading to damnation.
and
Arminian/Wesleyan theology: The reprobate are those who freely reject grace and persist in unbelief until death.

Romans 1:28​

“God gave them over to a reprobate mind…”

Which is often understood as God allowing the wicked to follow their chosen path, leading to judgment. = Free Will

Romans 9:22​

“Vessels of wrath prepared for destruction…”

Reformed theologians see this as evidence of divine reprobation. Others interpret it as people preparing themselves for destruction by rejecting God. If you are reformed, you will see this as God having created them for destruction otherwise
those that reject God get what they justly deserve.

2 Thessalonians 2:10–12​

“…they did not receive the love of the truth…
God sends them a strong delusion…
that they all might be damned who believed not the truth.”

NOTE: This is one of the strongest biblical statements connecting rejection of truth with final condemnation.
Again this has a strong tie to Free Will and the rejection of truth.

John 3:18​

“He that does not believe is condemned already…”

Not about predestination directly, but teaches that persistent unbelief results in condemnation. Yet if the elect are predestined they will not have persistent unbelief as God will give them the faith they need.

So either God has determined who must be damned and sees to it that they do not have the proper faith…...or those with Free Will will make their choice once they have heard about Faith and Jesus.”

Ergo: Persistent unbelief leads to condemnation.

In Calvinistic theology, the elect will not persist in unbelief because God grants them saving faith.
This implies that God chooses some to be saved and leaves others in their unbelief.

In non-Calvinistic (Free-Will) theology, God enables all people to respond, and each person freely chooses to accept or reject faith in Christ.

​

Matthew 25:46​

“These shall go away into everlasting punishment…”

Classic passage for the final destiny of the wicked no matter what your theological beliefs are.

As to..........

---

Calvinist / Reformed​

God, in His sovereignty, elects some to salvation.

Others are “reprobated” (passed over), left in their sin.

Their damnation is certain because God does not grant them regenerating grace.

Arminian / Wesleyan​

God desires salvation for all.

“Reprobate” refers to those who finally resist God’s grace.

Damnation is the result of persistent, deliberate rejection.

​

Universalist (minority view)​

Many reject the notion and argue God ultimately saves all.

They reinterpret passages about destruction as corrective, not final.

---

So what have we learned?​

The Bible consistently teaches:

Some people persist in unbelief and rebellion.

They face judgment and final separation from God.

Whether this is due to:

God’s sovereign decree (Calvinism),
or
human free rejection (Arminianism ),

…it simply depends on the theological system you adopt.

 

[TedT]

Am I a reprobate by your standards?

I have no way to make that determination.

Accepting false theologies are an effect of our having chosen to be sinful in HIS sight, Rom 1:18+....not of reprobation.

Earth is a prison for all sinners (and only sinners) of any kind with a rehab centre to cure those who can be forgiven, the sinful elect, from the decisions that having self chosen to be sinners have brought to them.

I went thru a phase of eastern mysticism then as a Christian a Calvinist phase and an Arminian phase and then a time of mixing the two willy-nilly so to speak. Now I accept our pre-conception existence as the theology that best fits my relationship with the Spirit who brought me to Christ.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I have no way to make that determination.

Accepting false theologies are an effect of our having chosen to be sinful in HIS sight, Rom 1:18+....not of reprobation.

Earth is a prison for all sinners (and only sinners) of any kind with a rehab centre to cure those who can be forgiven, the sinful elect, from the decisions that having self chosen to be sinners have brought to them.

I went thru a phase of eastern mysticism then as a Christian a Calvinist phase and an Arminian phase and then a time of mixing the two willy-nilly so to speak. Now I accept our pre-conception existence as the theology that best fits my relationship with the Spirit who brought me to Christ.

And talk of false thologies.

 

[TedT]

“ALREADY condemned” has the same meaning as “IS not condemned” … both indicate a “decision or judgement” has already been made prior to this moment in time.

Exactly...it refers to the time everyone was separated into the two parts of creation, the elect and the reprobate.

So, when was that time?
Before our creation OR after our creation? We know that the elect were chosen before life on earth: Eph 1:4...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world for us to be holy and blameless before Him, in love...implying that the reprobation of the non-elect was also at that time.

But how/why?
By HIS arbitrary order or in response to our own free will decisions of faith? To believe HE chose to damn to reprobation anyone before they earned it by their own free will choice is anathema to me and can't be justified from HIS self revelation but only accepted as a mystery. Before the foundation of the world cannot therefore mean before our creation! ...a hint!

Therefore I believe that hints such as the one in this verse (and Jn 3:18), that we had an existence before the creation of the physical universe during which time we set our own FATES by our own free will decisions, are true.

 

[atpollard]

Sit back and digest this. THIS IS BIBLICAL.

The Bible does teach the reprobate will be damned.

In most traditional Christian interpretations, the Bible teaches that the “reprobate” (those finally rejected by God) will face damnation.

However, how this is understood varies widely among theological traditions.

Those finally rejected by God in most Christian traditions outside strict Calvinism, refers specifically to people who first chose to reject God by their own free will.

Here is a clear breakdown.

The word reprobate (Greek: ἀδόκιμος adokimos, “rejected,” “unapproved”) appears in Scripture, but the theological concept of “the reprobate” is most developed in:​

Calvinist/Reformed theology: Those whom God passes over and allows to remain in sin, ultimately leading to damnation.
and
Arminian/Wesleyan theology: The reprobate are those who freely reject grace and persist in unbelief until death.

Romans 1:28​

Which is often understood as God allowing the wicked to follow their chosen path, leading to judgment. = Free Will

Romans 9:22​

Reformed theologians see this as evidence of divine reprobation. Others interpret it as people preparing themselves for destruction by rejecting God. If you are reformed, you will see this as God having created them for destruction otherwise
those that reject God get what they justly deserve.

2 Thessalonians 2:10–12​

NOTE: This is one of the strongest biblical statements connecting rejection of truth with final condemnation.
Again this has a strong tie to Free Will and the rejection of truth.

John 3:18​

Not about predestination directly, but teaches that persistent unbelief results in condemnation. Yet if the elect are predestined they will not have persistent unbelief as God will give them the faith they need.

So either God has determined who must be damned and sees to it that they do not have the proper faith…...or those with Free Will will make their choice once they have heard about Faith and Jesus.”

Ergo: Persistent unbelief leads to condemnation.

In Calvinistic theology, the elect will not persist in unbelief because God grants them saving faith.
This implies that God chooses some to be saved and leaves others in their unbelief.

In non-Calvinistic (Free-Will) theology, God enables all people to respond, and each person freely chooses to accept or reject faith in Christ.

​

Matthew 25:46​

Classic passage for the final destiny of the wicked no matter what your theological beliefs are.

As to..........

---

Calvinist / Reformed​

God, in His sovereignty, elects some to salvation.

Others are “reprobated” (passed over), left in their sin.

Their damnation is certain because God does not grant them regenerating grace.

Arminian / Wesleyan​

God desires salvation for all.

“Reprobate” refers to those who finally resist God’s grace.

Damnation is the result of persistent, deliberate rejection.

​

Universalist (minority view)​

Many reject the notion and argue God ultimately saves all.

They reinterpret passages about destruction as corrective, not final.

---

So what have we learned?​

The Bible consistently teaches:

Some people persist in unbelief and rebellion.

They face judgment and final separation from God.

Whether this is due to:

God’s sovereign decree (Calvinism),
or
human free rejection (Arminianism ),

…it simply depends on the theological system you adopt.

I am a COMPATIBALIST.

• Free Will (and a fallen nature) leads 100% of all people born down the road to damnation (their choices and actions, not God’s):
  • James 1:13-15 [ESV] Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
  • Ephesians 2:1-3 [ESV] And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-- among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
  • John 3:19-20 [ESV] And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
• God’s Love and Sovereign choice snatches some from the wide road leading to damnation and DRAWS them to the Son, the gate on the narrow road to being made a new creation (God’s grace, not human merit):
  • Ephesians 2:4-10 [ESV] But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
  • Romans 8:26-30 [ESV] Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
  • John 15:16-19 [ESV] You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. These things I command you, so that you will love one another. "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.