Are Christians Sabbatarian?

[Red Baker]

Philippians 3:8,9​

“Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”

Wonderful scriptures, the sum of the gospel of Jesus Christ, miss it here, and one has missed the truth concerning the true gospel of Jesus Christ, the only gospel that is the source of eternal life.

1) We ask you @Studyman, pray to tell me: "What is the excellency of the Knowledge of Christ"?

2) Paul said he had suffered the lost of all things, and he count them as dung...why? That he may win Christ. What does it mean to win Christ?

3) @Studyman ~ What is Paul referring to "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,"?

4) Here the final question: "but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:” What is Paul referring to? Hint: whatever Paul is referring to, is without question is how a man obtains the righteousness of God that will give that person the right to eternal life.

I'll say no more until you have a chance to answer. You are more than welcome to ask me questions, and I will show you how you must answer, in order to conduct a reasonable and honest discussion moving forward.

 

[Red Baker]

Why does the rabble babble? Because Satan hates truth, especially about Jesus Christ. If he gets believers sidetracked with Moses and O.T. superstition, Jesus loses. Let Jesus Christ be glorified!

Reader, are you a Christian? If you are, you know the Old Testament passed away, as its name proves (Hebrews 8:3). You should know which section of the Bible is for you, and which section was for Israel. You know Leviticus was for the Levites, not the deacons in your church. You know Paul’s epistles are for Gentile Christians. In spite of what @jeremiah1five said otherwise. Therefore, it does not matter how many times circumcision, sabbath, turtledoves, wave offering, goats, blood, altar, and incense occur in the O.T., they do not apply to you today. Those were beggarly elements of a Jewish form of worship and bondage that is now 2000 years dead. Thank you, blessed God! It was know by the scriptures as the Jews' rellgion, even if they had desecrated its worship, just as the NT church as now done.

Christians follow Jesus Christ and the apostles, not Moses. The N.T. exalts Jesus the Son far above Moses the servant (John 1:17; Hebrews 3: 3-7). Christians follow the teaching and tradition of His apostles (2nd Thess. 2:15; Galatians 1:18). His apostles and prophets had the highest offices in the N.T., and they are the foundation of the N.T. church (1st Corinthians 12:28; Ephesians 2:189-22; 3:17). Any contrary opinion is heresy (2nd Thess 3:6; Romans 16: 17,18; 1st John 4:6; Jude 1:3). Following John and Jesus, they changed God’s worship (John 4:20-24). Using Jewish O.T. rules for religious practice today is not Christianity; I think we can safely say, Moses, David, or Isaiah hardly had much insight about N.T. Christianity (1st Peter 1:10-12).

Paul is the final authority for New Testament worship, not Moses. Jesus Christ chose Paul to be the apostle of the Gentiles, and he and the other apostles understood his special role (Acts 9:15; 15:12; Romans 11:13; 15:15-21; Galatians 2: 2:8,9) ). Do you? Gentiles are to follow Paul in the way he followed Christ (1st Corinthians4:14-16; 11:1,2; Philippians 2:3:17). He is the pattern for proper Christian living and worship (Philippians 4:9) ). He wrote the three Pastoral Epistles of the N.T. If a practice cannot be found in Paul’s writing, it should not be followed. Paul condemned Sabbatarians and exalted the first day of the week, as the N.T. and this document clearly show.

Paul’s gospel and ordinances were directly from Jesus Christ. Paul certified that the gospel he preached was directly from the Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11,12; Ephesians 3:1-7; 1st Corinthians11:23; 14:37). Therefore, just as the Lord had commissioned and charged the original eleven apostles, Paul taught converts to observe exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ had commanded Matthew 28:20).

 

[jeremiah1five]

Why does the rabble babble? Because Satan hates truth, especially about Jesus Christ. If he gets believers sidetracked with Moses and O.T. superstition, Jesus loses. Let Jesus Christ be glorified!

Talk about being anti-biblical, anti-scriptural.
The Old Testament isn't superstition. Jesus obeyed the Law of Moses and the Prophets. He taught the Old Testament, specifically the Law of Mose to His people the Jews. He also directed other Jews in the gospel to obey the Law of Moses.

6 And these words [Old Testament], which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
Deuteronomy 6:6–9.

God Himself commands His people to read the Old Testament, to talk about what's written day in and day out, while you walk on a path, on sidewalks, from the moment you awake from sleep to the moment you go to bed - even to dream about God's Holy Word. Scripture, Scripture, Scripture, all the live long day.
The apostle Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee, and he obeyed the Law of Moses and the Prophets.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14.

Saul also said without the Law no one could be saved, no one could come to faith in Christ.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24.

Jesus Himself said, "because iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold" and the first love that a person loses is a love for God's Word, the whole counsel of God found in the Old Testament for the Old Testament and the Law of Moses is a testimony of God and His Christ. Without God's Word NO ONE can be saved:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:23.

You obviously hate God. The Holy Spirit in a true, Biblical Christian gives a born-again believer a love for God's Word. They don't disrespect it, they don't denigrate it and say that it is superstitious as you have done. One of the signs of a false believer and a false church is their belief that God's Word has no power, is not something we should be concerned with, that God's Word is not real but a superstitious relic and jumbo of hard sayings that because it is hard to understand to the unbeliever, it is like oil that flows down Aarons beard. By your own 'mouth' you accuse God of lying to His creation. The Lord has pulled your covers.

Reader, are you a Christian? If you are, you know the Old Testament passed away, as its name proves (Hebrews 8:3). You should know which section of the Bible is for you, and which section was for Israel. You know Leviticus was for the Levites, not the deacons in your church. You know Paul’s epistles are for Gentile Christians. In spite of what @jeremiah1five said otherwise. Therefore, it does not matter how many times circumcision, sabbath, turtledoves, wave offering, goats, blood, altar, and incense occur in the O.T., they do not apply to you today. Those were beggarly elements of a Jewish form of worship and bondage that is now 2000 years dead. Thank you, blessed God! It was know by the scriptures as the Jews' rellgion, even if they had desecrated its worship, just as the NT church as now done.

Like those Pharisees and Sadducees before you who without the Spirit of the Living God they could only understand the letter of the Law because there is no Spirit within you that instructs in the spirit of the Law. Attacking God's Word is attacking Christ. There is no Gentile Christians. Joel prophesied the Holy Spirit of Promise was promised to Israel, not Gentiles. And without the Holy Spirit NO ONE can be saved. You want to divide God and His Word. You show yourself ignorant of God's Word of the Old Testament. Jesus Himself is able to bring salvation through the Law of Moses because it is the Law of Moses that instructed His people in learning and identifying the Savior of the Jews.

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Luke 24:27.

Take away the Law of Moses and the Old Testament and you are left with nothing. And because you take away God's Word you will be unable to recognize Christ when He returns and may most likely be receiving the mark of the Beast and him shall you serve. What a shame. But the Lord knows them that are His. All the New Covenant writings are is the Law of Moses fulfilled by Christ. The New Covenant writings are a witness and testimony of the Old Testament and the Law of Moses that through discussion and comparative study of the Old Testament and the Law of Moses these men named Saul, Peter, James, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are only discussion of the New Covenant era Israel found herself in. In order to discern whether one is in the faith and is in fellowship with the Almighty is to look into the Old Testament and the Law of Moses for it is there where we find the Church of the Living God; it is there where we find His Betrothed, His Bride, and it is there where the witness of Israel's Messiah, Lord, and Savior, and King is found so that when He comes we shall see Him as He is [described in Scripture] so that we do not sin against God and serve other gods that some have put before themselves.

Christians follow Jesus Christ and the apostles, not Moses. The N.T. exalts Jesus the Son far above Moses the servant (John 1:17; Hebrews 3: 3-7). Christians follow the teaching and tradition of His apostles (2nd Thess. 2:15; Galatians 1:18). His apostles and prophets had the highest offices in the N.T., and they are the foundation of the N.T. church (1st Corinthians 12:28; Ephesians 2:189-22; 3:17). Any contrary opinion is heresy (2nd Thess 3:6; Romans 16: 17,18; 1st John 4:6; Jude 1:3). Following John and Jesus, they changed God’s worship (John 4:20-24). Using Jewish O.T. rules for religious practice today is not Christianity; I think we can safely say, Moses, David, or Isaiah hardly had much insight about N.T. Christianity (1st Peter 1:10-12).

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Romans 7:14.

The Law is spiritual and meant for spiritual men and women of the Lord. It is not for the carnal, for the carnal Gentile who thinks and believes he or she is saved when they throw out more than half of God's written word. It is God's Word to Israel, to His Chosen people. And it is His Word, the Old Testament and the Law of Moses which God Himself has elevated highest than His own Name:

For thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. Psalm 138:2.

But to you God's Word is superstition. It is like salt that has lost its taste. And you have fulfilled prophecy and trampled it underfoot.

Paul is the final authority for New Testament worship, not Moses. Jesus Christ chose Paul to be the apostle of the Gentiles, and he and the other apostles understood his special role (Acts 9:15; 15:12; Romans 11:13; 15:15-21; Galatians 2: 2:8,9) ). Do you? Gentiles are to follow Paul in the way he followed Christ (1st Corinthians4:14-16; 11:1,2; Philippians 2:3:17). He is the pattern for proper Christian living and worship (Philippians 4:9) ). He wrote the three Pastoral Epistles of the N.T. If a practice cannot be found in Paul’s writing, it should not be followed. Paul condemned Sabbatarians and exalted the first day of the week, as the N.T. and this document clearly show.

Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee and member of the Sanhedrin. He studied the Old Testament Law and the Prophets and this is HOW he was able to write his letters to Jews and Jewish Christians scattered throughout the Gentile world. And because Saul elevated God's Word and studied it in order to make sense and to understand the New Covenant era Israel found herself in he was able to explain from the Old Testament to the Jew what the New Covenant was all about, how it fit in with God's plan for Israel for it is a covenant between God and only Israel. As Jeremiah said:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:31.

This New Covenant that is found in the Old Testament clearly states the New Covenant is a covenant between the God of Abraham and the House of Israel and the House of Judah. And as you can see this New Covenant doesn't include Gentiles.

Paul’s gospel and ordinances were directly from Jesus Christ. Paul certified that the gospel he preached was directly from the Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11,12; Ephesians 3:1-7; 1st Corinthians11:23; 14:37). Therefore, just as the Lord had commissioned and charged the original eleven apostles, Paul taught converts to observe exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ had commanded Matthew 28:20).

Jesus didn't leave heaven to return a second time and a third and a fourth to Saul to teach him anything. The revelations Saul received that he mentions in his letter to Jewish Christians in the Galatian letter are revelations one receives under the anointing as they study the Word of God. And Saul studied the Old Testament and was able through the anointing, the same anointing available to every born-again Biblical Christian today as it was in the past, revelations and understanding that comes from study of God's Word, and for Saul he studied under the anointing the Old Testament. But you shoot down that process. Jesus didn't leave heaven just for Saul and personally teach him anything. Jesus said He would send another [Greek: "allos"] Comforter just like Him who would not only be with us but inside us. But not you. Your heresy has found you out. This is He whom Saul accessed. He travelled with his "books" and parchments, and he studied the Old Testament to discern and understand the New Covenant that was upon Israel. And through study God gave him the understanding. The Holy Spirit of Promise that God promised to Israel was sent to Israel and Israel became saved.

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:17–18.

He is the same Spirit who has given me revelation of God's Word as He gave Saul revelation of God's Word. Through the Holy Spirit and through study of the Old Testament Law of Moses Saul was able to write his understanding about the New Covenant by studying the Old Covenant and the Law and the Prophets. I do the same thing as he and he does the same thing as I.

Too bad for you. Jesus taught us that whatever is in a man's heart will [eventually] come from out his mouth. By saying the Old Testament and the Law of Moses is "superstition" you are revealing your own heart and the salvation you claim as "superstitious" something that is not true, has never happened.
But Jesus told us about scoffers in the last days. He warned us they would rise up from within not from without.
And I have found one today.

 

[Red Baker]

@Jereemiah

Talk about being anti-biblical, anti-scriptural.

Using Lee Corso's famous line..."Not so fast, my friend, not so fast!" I tagged your name deliberately, knowing you would respond, because I desire you to do so, so we can talk about this more in depth. At least, to your credit, you always attempt to support your position with scriptures and I can appreciate at least that coming from a person, it is certainly commendable, and that's why we are here. I have never seen you attack the person, but their understanding of the scriptures. Another thing that I do like about you, and believe me, that I have noticed is this, I never seen you where I thought anyone got under your skins, I can tell by your responding post back, and that's commendable, again proves your sincerity in what you believe, regardless right, or wrong, which I'm convinced is terribly wrong, of believing only in the Jews "by nature only as" God's people.

The Old Testament isn't superstition. Jesus obeyed the Law of Moses and the Prophets. He taught the Old Testament, specifically the Law of Mose to His people the Jews. He also directed other Jews in the gospel to obey the Law of Moses.

6 And these words [Old Testament], which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
Deuteronomy 6:6–9.

Jeremiah, I never said they were, and yes as a Jew born under the law, Jesus lived as the Jews lived in relation to God's law, living in them without sinning, so much more than just living blameless in them, and many righteous children of God did.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14.

I love this scripture and have used it as a identifier at the bottom of my posit to let folks know why I'm here and what I believe. Jeremiah, I said above:

First, I never have said that there are not laws in the OT that are not spiritual, holy, and good, for they are, and these law are a rule by which Saints governed their life by, not in order to obtain eternal, but because there are no laws more spiritual than the laws of God summed up in the ten commandments. That's a given. But there were certain laws given only to Israel and only until the time of reformation going from the OT covenant unto the NT covenant. We must be able to divide the scriptures properly to know which ones were only mean to be until Christ and only for Israel and the reason why this is so.

Saul also said without the Law no one could be saved, no one could come to faith in Christ.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24.

Jeremiah, (I highlighted "Our") you are not understanding Galatians 3:24 correctly. First, you are using the word saved in a very limited sense, then the scriptures allows us to do so. Assuming you are here speaking of being to be saved from one's sins and eternal condemnation?

One of the main purpose of God's law is to be a schoolmaster for God's children, teaching "THEM" their necessity of trusting "only" in Jesus Christ their surety, life of perfect faith and obedience and his death to pay for their sins, as the only source of their free justification before God law. Once they come to this understanding, then they are no longer under the schoolmaster in this area, since if they understood properly, then they move on to be teachers themselves for young believers. Now, that's not to say, we are not under it as a rule of conduct, for we are, for it is the Royal law, or standard to live by, for there's is not a more godly standard of righteousness given unto men to be their perfect guide in living unto God is an manner in which he is well please with. But, the wise would know never even for a minute think that we are using it as a means to gain eternal life, for that is defeating the very purpose for which it was given per Galatians 3:24. The only faith legally speaking that justifies the sinner is Christ's faith, not the sinners ~justification is use in different sense, one is there's a justification that takes place in our conscience once we come to a perfect understanding (by having a true knowledge of God's law) of our legal justification ~ in our conscience, we a enjoy the sweet peace of knowing that we have a full and complete pardon based upon Jesus' perfect life of faith and obedience And if we believe, and even this faith taht we have is the faith of Christ imparted to our new man at our spiritual birth by the Spirit of God.

Galatians 2:20​

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 2:21​

“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

Without God's Word NO ONE can be saved:

This is true "only" in a practical sense, for that's the very means of our faith, for faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Yet, a man is born again solely by the power of God's Spirit without any means whatsoever, for this is the only hope of all men, especially so where the gospel is not preached. Man is dead in trespasses and sin and must first be given spiritual life by the Spirit of God "before" he can hear, see, and understand, that should be understood without even stressing the truth of this, knowing man's natural state by nature ~ but sad to say, it is no more understood as it was in days past.

Take away the Law of Moses and the Old Testament and you are left with nothing. And because you take away God's Word you will be unable to recognize Christ when He returns and may most likely be receiving the mark of the Beast and him shall you serve. What a shame. But the Lord knows them that are His. All the New Covenant writings are is the Law of Moses fulfilled by Christ. The New Covenant writings are a witness and testimony of the Old Testament and the Law of Moses that through discussion and comparative study of the Old Testament and the Law of Moses these men named Saul, Peter, James, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are only discussion of the New Covenant era Israel found herself in. In order to discern whether one is in the faith and is in fellowship with the Almighty is to look into the Old Testament and the Law of Moses for it is there where we find the Church of the Living God; it is there where we find His Betrothed, His Bride, and it is there where the witness of Israel's Messiah, Lord, and Savior, and King is found so that when He comes we shall see Him as He is [described in Scripture] so that we do not sin against God and serve other gods that some have put before themselves.

No one is advocating taking away OT scriptures far from that. For all scriptures are given by inspiration of God is is profitable, we are just advocating rightly diving them, nothing more, and certainly nothing less.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Romans 7:14.

The Law is spiritual and meant for spiritual men and women of the Lord. It is not for the carnal, for the carnal Gentile who thinks and believes he or she is saved when they throw out more than half of God's written word. It is God's Word to Israel, to His Chosen people. And it is His Word, the Old Testament and the Law of Moses which God Himself has elevated highest than His own Name:

For thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. Psalm 138:2.

But to you God's Word is superstition. It is like salt that has lost its taste. And you have fulfilled prophecy and trampled it underfoot.

I think by now the air should be clear enough to see that I preach/teach just as Paul did in Romans 7:14, for I know that to be so, yet, I also know how to rightly divide scriptures and give them their God given true biblical sense, so as not to confuse the simple and corrupt God's word by my lack of ability to rightly divided them.

Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee and member of the Sanhedrin. He studied the Old Testament Law and the Prophets and this is HOW he was able to write his letters to Jews and Jewish Christians scattered throughout the Gentile world. And because Saul elevated God's Word and studied it in order to make sense and to understand the New Covenant era Israel found herself in he was able to explain from the Old Testament to the Jew what the New Covenant was all about, how it fit in with God's plan for Israel for it is a covenant between God and only Israel. As Jeremiah said:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:31.

This New Covenant that is found in the Old Testament clearly states the New Covenant is a covenant between the God of Abraham and the House of Israel and the House of Judah. And as you can see this New Covenant doesn't include Gentiles.

Jeremiah, his Gentile name is Paul which he went by, thank you very much! Not going to get into the subject of limited the gospel to the natural seed of Abraham, for that's not the purpose of this thread. The new covenant does include the Gentiles nations, not in your doctrine but in the scriptures. I will only add this for now: The house of Israel (Gentiles) and the house of Judah, (the natural children of Abraham), are the two witnesses of God, etc., God use the northern kingdoms to typify the Gentiles nation in the OT prophecy is very clear and I have shown this to you in another thread, so not going to rehash it here in this one at the present time.

He is the same Spirit who has given me revelation of God's Word as He gave Saul revelation of God's Word. Through the Holy Spirit and through study of the Old Testament Law of Moses Saul was able to write his understanding about the New Covenant by studying the Old Covenant and the Law and the Prophets. I do the same thing as he and he does the same thing as I.

Too bad for you. Jesus taught us that whatever is in a man's heart will [eventually] come from out his mouth. By saying the Old Testament and the Law of Moses is "superstition" you are revealing your own heart and the salvation you claim as "superstitious" something that is not true, has never happened.
But Jesus told us about scoffers in the last days. He warned us they would rise up from within not from without.
And I have found one today.

I just spent time showing you that you need to read more to see exactly what we are saying, do not cherry pick and run with that and try to make us say something that we are not saying, not do we believe. Now you can show yourself to be a noble Christian by reading this post and confess what I am saying is we do not look to Moses for justification of our sins, but to Christ alone. We do not live by certain law in the OT mainly ones that governed he dietary laws of Israel, and many of their ordinances that were meant only for them and only until the true biblical reformation that took place from Christ's death until the scriptures were completed around Paul's days as far as his epistles goes, John's book of Revelation came later.

 

[Red Baker]

Paul condemned Sabbatarians and the Sabbath. He condemned any obligation or requirement to keep Sabbath days, because Jesus had nailed that contrary ordinance to His cross, for it was only a shadowy figure of Him (Colossians 2:2:14, 16,17)Col 2:14,16-17). He declared that Jewish days were weak and beggarly elements, created religious bondage comparable to idolatry, and would ruin his gospel labors and their conversions (Galatians 4:4-8). He told the Hebrews that the gospel rest in Christ’s finished work of redemption had superseded the Sabbath (Hebrews 4:1-11). He concluded that the old carnal ways had been replaced (Hebrews 8:13; 9:10).

Paul exalted the first day of the week. When he stayed in Troas for a full week, neither he nor the church came together in a full assembly on the Sabbath. Instead, they assembled as a church on the first day of the week, which was the appointed time for that church to gather and hold the Lord’s Supper (Acts 20:6,7). Paul further ordered the churches of Corinth and Galatia to perform their religious duty of giving on the first day of the week (1st Corinthians 16:1,2). This order by the apostle of the Gentiles confirmed the apostolic doctrine and tradition for setting aside the first day of the week for worship of God on the Lord’s Day.

The OT Sabbath was a special day to Israel only. This point is very important, but ignored or rejected by Sabbatarians. The Sabbath was never for Gentiles or Christians. It was only and specifically His special sign to Israel as His covenant nation under the O.T. (Exodus 31:12-14; Deut. 5:15; Nehemaih 9:13,14; Ezekiel 20:12,30). These verses are plain and easily grasped. We should read them! Believe them! Obey them! Gentile Christians under the N.T. have no obligation to keep Israel’s O.T. Sabbath laws. God never charged anyone else at any other time to keep the seventh day for any reason or purpose. No one observed the Sabbath before Mt. Sinai.

There is no mystery about the seventh day. It was never a memorial of creation, in spite of SDA’s quoting Ellen Harmon. God could have created in seven hours, minutes, seconds, or no time at all. He chose six days to create, resting the seventh, to give Israel weekly rest for bondage in Egypt (Exodus 23:12; Deut. 5:12-15). God made the Sabbath for the carnal and worldly comfort of the Jews, their slaves, and their livestock. Worship was not required. Jesus declared God did not make man for the Sabbath, thus limiting it to a mere aid for refreshment (Mark 2:27). Its purpose and value are only the practical reason stated here.

Moses wrote Genesis 2:1-3. Therefore, he referred to the seventh day as being blessed and sanctified from the perspective of God’s law to Israel. This is a simple fact, but it has an important implication. There is no evidence the seventh day was a creation ordinance for all nations. The evidence says the opposite. Not one man prior to Israel under Moses ever saw or read Genesis 2:1-3. There is much worship of God in Genesis of all sorts, but there is no mention of anyone observing the seventh day. God judged many sins and sinners in Genesis, but He never charged anyone with violating the Sabbath. There is no mention of the Sabbath until Exodus 16, when God first introduced the rules for collecting manna.

The Sabbath confused Israel, because they had never heard of it. There was confusion in Israel about gathering manna for the seventh day, and the inspired history states and shows that the Israelites had not been observing the Sabbath before leaving Egypt (Exodus 16:16-31). Read it! Believe it! The Sabbath was a new thing for these people. They had not worked six-day weeks and rested the seventh day before. Pharaoh did not let them sleep in on Saturday mornings, sit at home all day, and relax from working one day out of seven! For many years after creation, no one had heard about the Sabbath or observed the Sabbath.

Jesus kept the Sabbath for reasons we cannot. He was born a Jew, in the nation of the Jews, under the laws of the Jews (Galatians 4:4-5; Luke 2:23,24; Matthew 5:17; Romans 15:8) He only kept the Sabbath as a Jew, not as an example for Christians. He never kept the Sabbath after His resurrection, and neither did His apostles. As a Jew, Jesus also kept other Jewish laws, like circumcision, which Christians must not keep. He even taught that the Pharisees were to be obeyed by his countrymen, but that does not obligate Gentile Christians to look for the nearest Sanhedrin (Matthew 23:1-3). For these and many other reasons, we are to follow the apostle Paul as he followed Jesus Christ (1st Corinthians 4: 14-16)

Paul used the Sabbath for reasons we cannot. He only visited synagogues on Sabbath days to convert Jews and Gentile proselytes that were ignorantly following Moses (Acts 9:20; 13:14,42; 16:13; 17:1-3; 18:4, etc.,). He used his opportunities there to preach Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of the O.T. prophecies of the Messiah. He did not sanction the Jewish Sabbath for anyone by this practice any more than he sanctioned circumcision for justification by circumcising Timothy (Acts 16:3). He was willing to be made all things to all men to save them, including visiting synagogues on Sabbath days (1st Corinthians 9:19-23; 1st Corinthians 9:19-23).

Who abolished the Sabbath? The Lord Jesus Christ abolished the Sabbath! He was the Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:28; Mark 2:27). He defined its limitations and inferiority to mercy (Matthew 12:7). He defined its limitations and purpose as a tool, not a thing for worship (Mark 2:27). He nailed this contrary Jewish ordinance to His cross (Colossians 2:2:14; Ephesians 2:15). Having conquered sin and death, He rose bodily and appeared to His assembled followers on the first day of the week, which was thereafter known as the Lord’s Day (John 20:19; Revelation 1:10). He proved His great superiority to Moses (John 1:17; 2nd Corinthians 3:6-11; Hebrews 3:3-6.).

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman

Is this the best you have to offer? You took my post #17 ~ read it, and never commented on it, but only said a few rambling words, that had not one thing to do with what I said! A typical pattern of your post.

I addressed the very first Scripture you posted about the Law the Pharisees were trying to place on the necks of the Apostles, and the Gentiles, the same Yoke that corrupted their fathers.

The Pharisees had their own Law, their own "circumcision", their own Righteousness, their own commandments, their own sabbath, even their own high days. They didn't believe in the Oracles of God, they didn't believe Moses, they had been given God's Holy, Just and Good Laws, but had rejected them so they could walk in their own religious traditions. They might have honored God with their lips, and called themselves "Children of Abraham, but by their religious works, they rejected Him.

Of course the Disciples led believers away from their religion and their Laws and traditions, just as Jesus did, and John the Baptist did, and the Prophets before them did.

The "Bible" tells you over and over and over and over and over, countless times, that the corrupt Jews with their corrupt prophets and their corrupt priests, rejected God's commandments, despised God's Judgments, polluted God's Sabbaths, and created their their own Laws. Moses and Every Prophet in the Gospel of Christ tells you this. John the Baptist knew this. "EVERY WORD" Jesus spoke to define or describe the Pharisees and the Sadducees, told you they had created their own Laws, their own traditions, their own righteousness.

They "SAID" they promoted God's Laws that HE gave to Moses. They Read Moses to the people every Sabbath Day. But they lived by and promoted another Law, their own Law. "Commandments of men", not God. Precepts of men, not God.(Is. 29:13) Traditions of men, not God. And they, not God, but the corrupt priests and scribes, placed this Law, a Yoke of bondage of sin and death, grievous to be born, on the necks of the very people they were supposed to be the Shepherds of. (Jer. 50:6)

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh "after the imagination of his own heart", No evil shall come upon you.

The entire Bible, Every Word of God, Paul's teaching, all promote this undeniable Biblical Truth.

Phil. 3: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Rom. 10: 1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish "their own righteousness", have "not submitted themselves" unto the righteousness of God.

Jesus called them liars, John the Baptist called them vipers. Paul said they had the Oracles of God, but didn't believe them. Jesus said they didn't believe Moses, that Moses gave them God's Laws, but they didn't keep them. Stephen, Peter, Zacharias, Simeon, the Wise Men, they all knew this truth about the Pharisees, or as Paul called it, "The Jews Religion". I could go on and on and on and on, exposing the undeniable Biblical Truth about the Pharisees and the law they lived by and promoted to others, that it wasn't the Laws of God, but the Commandments of men.

Even the Pharisees themselves told you, "We have a Law, and by "our Law" He must die". Did God's Law Condemn Jesus to death? Of course not.

Now fast forward to my time, in the world God placed me in. I am born into a religion in which a massive religious system exists. MASSIVE! It consists of many different sects and religious businesses who are promoted by "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

And one of the foundational religious doctrines they promote, is that the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by walking in and promoting "God's Laws" that HE gave to Moses. And they all use Acts 15 as the foundational verse to prove that the Pharisees were trying to convert the Apostles and the new converts and Gentiles to "Obey God's Laws that HE gave Moses". And this because some of the Liars, Hypocrites, children of the devil, children of Disobedience, came to the Disciples and said, "5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Now you Red, and Civic, and "MANY" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, would have me believe that this "Sect of the Pharisees" had suddenly stopped being liars, suddenly stopped promoting the "Jews Religion" that persecuted the Church of God. That all the Word's and warnings of the Leaven of the Pharisees, given by the Jesus "of the Bible" were now meaningless, all the Prophets were now Wrong, All the Prophesies worthless and these Pharisees (that believed) had suddenly repented and turned to God, and submitted to God's Righteousness and were doing works worthy of repentance, as Paul taught both Jew and Gentile.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous and deceitful and unbiblical this teaching of yours is?

Thankfully, the Disciples knew better than to trust these preachers. They knew the warnings of the Lord's Christ, and they knew the teaching of the Prophets. So here is how Peter responded to them.

Acts 15: 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Now remember what Peter preached from the beginning, even while Paul was still promoting the Law of the Pharisees, when he spoke as an Elder of the New Church of God under God's Prophesied, New high Priest,

Acts 5: 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, "whom God hath given" "to them that obey him". And now he is acknowledging the Gentiles were treated the same as them by God, concerning the receiving of the Holy spirit.

9 And put no difference "between us and them", purifying their hearts by faith.

Then Peter rebukes the Pharisees.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put "a yoke" upon the neck of the disciples, which "neither our fathers" nor we were able to bear?

The Disciples knew better from the beginning, that these promoters of the Pharisees religion, were not promoting the "Laws of God HE gave Moses". They were simply promoting the same traditions the Pharisees had always promoted, but in Jesus Name, as they claimed to "believe". If they had submitted to God's Righteousness, they too, would have received God's Spirit of Truth, as God would have "put no difference between the Disciples and the Pharisees, just as HE put no difference between the Gentiles and the Pharisees. God is no respecter of persons. If a man "Yields himself" a servant to obey God, this man will receive His Spirit. The Pharisees "that believed" didn't have this Spirit. It's right there in your own Bible.

So what did the Disciples say and do to settle the matter?

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, (Law of Moses) and from fornication, (Law of Moses) and from things strangled, (dietary Law of Moses) and from blood. ( dietary Law of Moses)

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

And what did the Jesus of the Bible instruct the multitudes and the Disciples to do shortly before HE was murdered?

Matt. 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, "that observe and do"; but do not ye "after their works": for they say, and do not.

4 For they (Pharisees and scribes, not God as you falsely preach) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Exactly how Peter described the promoters of the Pharisees Law in Acts 15:10.

So when a man understands this truth of the Scriptures, that is undeniable, they know that the following verse is speaking to the Pharisees Law, not the Laws of God the Disciples and the first Church of God under Jesus as their New High Priest obeyed, and were given God's Holy Spirit on Pentecost..

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

No, they turned the Gentiles away from the Pharisees Laws and traditions, and instructed the Gentiles to abstain from transgressing a few Laws of God common for those Gentiles at that time, and then directed them, and Jesus directed them, to hear Moses and the Prophets, where the Righteousness of God in revealed.

Until you come to terms with this undeniable truth of Act's 15, it is foolish and worthless to continue with you, and if you can't accept Jesus Words concerning the Pharisees, there is no truth in you at all.

I will respond to one more of your questions, then I am done with you, of course, you will have to have the last word.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

I will respond to one more of your questions, then I am done with you, of course, you will have to have the last word.

No sir, God will! We both can be assure of that truth. Why are are finish, I'm just beginning to get started. If you have truth, then it will defend you, no problem. I just got in, so let me carefully see what you have written.

 

[Red Baker]

The "Bible" tells you over and over and over and over and over, countless times, that the corrupt Jews with their corrupt prophets and their corrupt priests, rejected God's commandments, despised God's Judgments, polluted God's Sabbaths, and created their their own Laws. Moses and Every Prophet in the Gospel of Christ tells you this. John the Baptist knew this. "EVERY WORD" Jesus spoke to define or describe the Pharisees and the Sadducees, told you they had created their own Laws, their own traditions, their own righteousness.

Studyman, this part we do not disagree with, and truly is not the topic of discussion, the subject under consideration isi........ are we under certain laws that were given to Israel only and are not for the NT church? I also fully understand that men like you are just as guilty as they were and we set out above to prove it by using Acts 15; Philippians 3, etc. Btw, there's some questions on Phil. 3 waiting for your answers.

The entire Bible, Every Word of God, Paul's teaching, all promote this undeniable Biblical Truth.

Agree to most of what you saying, you just fail to make the proper application to men who have another gospel based on works, the works of their own hand, that's were we so strongly disagree with men like you. Actually, you are the person you are describing. I try to break it down with a few short post above to show you, but it seems like it is going right over your head.

Now fast forward to my time, in the world God placed me in. I am born into a religion in which a massive religious system exists. MASSIVE! It consists of many different sects and religious businesses who are promoted by "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

And one of the foundational religious doctrines they promote, is that the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by walking in and promoting "God's Laws" that HE gave to Moses. And they all use Acts 15 as the foundational verse to prove that the Pharisees were trying to convert the Apostles and the new converts and Gentiles to "Obey God's Laws that HE gave Moses". And this because some of the Liars, Hypocrites, children of the devil, children of Disobedience, came to the Disciples and said, "5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Not quite the truth, it is your version of it, so as to protect your work gospel and perversion of the truth.

The truth is this: men void of the Spirit of God desire to be teachers of the law who had no clue as to what the true purpose of giving the law and no no clue as to how to use it lawfully! That not my opinion, but the holy scriptures testimony concerning them.

1st Timothy 1:6-9~"From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"

Yes, the corrupt leaders in Israel's history who were void of God's Spirit had no understanding of the reason as why God gave his law in the first place! They even went as far a seeking life by the law (works) as though they could! Men are still doing so today, even while they vehemently deny they are doing so!

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put "a yoke" upon the neck of the disciples, which "neither our fathers" nor we were able to bear?

Okay, let me ask you a question....do you believe and teach that man must do this, or that before he can be saved? if it is no more than believe, repent and be baptized, then you are putting a yoke on folks that God never intended to put on them, or else, pray tell me, WHY did Jesus need to come to be a surety for God's elect, you answer that if you can, or anyone else can do so. You will have big time trouble doing so without exposing yourself as being just as guilty as those in Acts 15:1 were.

This is a good stopping place. I trust others would jump in and comment.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@Jereemiah

Using Lee Corso's famous line..."Not so fast, my friend, not so fast!" I tagged your name deliberately, knowing you would respond, because I desire you to do so, so we can talk about this more in depth. At least, to your credit, you always attempt to support your position with scriptures and I can appreciate at least that coming from a person, it is certainly commendable, and that's why we are here. I have never seen you attack the person, but their understanding of the scriptures. Another thing that I do like about you, and believe me, that I have noticed is this, I never seen you where I thought anyone got under your skins, I can tell by your responding post back, and that's commendable, again proves your sincerity in what you believe, regardless right, or wrong, which I'm convinced is terribly wrong, of believing only in the Jews "by nature only as" God's people.

Jeremiah, I never said they were, and yes as a Jew born under the law, Jesus lived as the Jews lived in relation to God's law, living in them without sinning, so much more than just living blameless in them, and many righteous children of God did.

I love this scripture and have used it as a identifier at the bottom of my posit to let folks know why I'm here and what I believe. Jeremiah, I said above:



Jeremiah, (I highlighted "Our") you are not understanding Galatians 3:24 correctly. First, you are using the word saved in a very limited sense, then the scriptures allows us to do so. Assuming you are here speaking of being to be saved from one's sins and eternal condemnation?

One of the main purpose of God's law is to be a schoolmaster for God's children, teaching "THEM" their necessity of trusting "only" in Jesus Christ their surety, life of perfect faith and obedience and his death to pay for their sins, as the only source of their free justification before God law. Once they come to this understanding, then they are no longer under the schoolmaster in this area, since if they understood properly, then they move on to be teachers themselves for young believers. Now, that's not to say, we are not under it as a rule of conduct, for we are, for it is the Royal law, or standard to live by, for there's is not a more godly standard of righteousness given unto men to be their perfect guide in living unto God is an manner in which he is well please with. But, the wise would know never even for a minute think that we are using it as a means to gain eternal life, for that is defeating the very purpose for which it was given per Galatians 3:24. The only faith legally speaking that justifies the sinner is Christ's faith, not the sinners ~justification is use in different sense, one is there's a justification that takes place in our conscience once we come to a perfect understanding (by having a true knowledge of God's law) of our legal justification ~ in our conscience, we a enjoy the sweet peace of knowing that we have a full and complete pardon based upon Jesus' perfect life of faith and obedience And if we believe, and even this faith taht we have is the faith of Christ imparted to our new man at our spiritual birth by the Spirit of God.

Galatians 2:20​

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 2:21​

“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

That's all well and good but your error - from which all your theology follows - is that Gentiles are part of the Hebrew/Jewish equation. They are not. YOUR TENDENCIES of including non-Hebrew Gentiles into the three Hebrew covenants is the error your have and from which everything in your theology follows is WRONG.

From what we see in the Old Testament (Law, Psalms, Prophets - Genesis to Malachi) is that God saves Israel through covenant (Promises.) God begins with Abraham and ends with Jesus. Each son of Abraham (Isaac, son; to Jacob, grandson) were in each generation knew they were inheritors of the Abraham promises - and they were. BUT I can trace in history of the last 2000 years that what was once a Jewish phenomenon (the Law to the Way to "Gentile Christianity) was changed to include Gentiles when Gentiles were NEVER part of the Abraham, Mosaic, and New Covenant. I KNOW where and when the change was made that included Gentiles into the three Hebrew covenants and it is a WRONG theology of belief to add Gentiles into the salvation that is OF THE LORD and was once a salvation that was OF THE JEWS that it became a salvation "of the Gentiles" when Gentiles were NEVER in any of the three Hebrew covenant. IF GOD SAVES through covenant - and He does - then WHERE is God's covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles????

THERE IS NONE.

I used to believe as you do, that Gentiles are being saved because they were in the Abraham covenant ("in thee all families of the earth, etc.) of Genesis 12:3 didn't include Gentiles. It's a weak position to interpret "families of the earth - Gen. 12:3" as Gentiles when it is BECAUSE of covenant that "IN THEE" (Abraham) all HIS FAMILIES are blessed. Those NOT in covenant are NOT blessed BECAUSE they are NOT in covenant with God. I have no problem defending what I believe. I used to believe as you do years ago that Gentiles are in covenant with God but there is NO SCRIPTURE that records this. I have since joining this fellowship been asking for someone to show me the passage where God makes covenant with Gentiles and I even ask what this Gentile's name with whom God made covenant with, but NO ONE can prove this through Scripture. I ask rhetorically KNOSWING there is NO COVENANT with Gentiles where God is their God and they are heirs with Abraham but NOWHERE are Gentiles named or mentioned in the text where these covenants are made and what the terms of covenant are with Gentiles. There is NONE.

This is true "only" in a practical sense, for that's the very means of our faith, for faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Yet, a man is born again solely by the power of God's Spirit without any means whatsoever, for this is the only hope of all men, especially so where the gospel is not preached. Man is dead in trespasses and sin and must first be given spiritual life by the Spirit of God "before" he can hear, see, and understand, that should be understood without even stressing the truth of this, knowing man's natural state by nature ~ but sad to say, it is no more understood as it was in days past.

By adding Gentiles into the biblical text of the Scripture is wrong. The animal sacrifice was to atone for the sins of the children of Israel, and if Christ came to FULFILL the Law then it's not hard to understand that as the animal was sacrificed for the sins of Israel, then Christ - under the Law - was slain to atone for the sins of Israel just as well.

No one is advocating taking away OT scriptures far from that. For all scriptures are given by inspiration of God is is profitable, we are just advocating rightly diving them, nothing more, and certainly nothing less.

That statement by Saul to Timothy is referring to the Old Testament ONLY.

I think by now the air should be clear enough to see that I preach/teach just as Paul did in Romans 7:14, for I know that to be so, yet, I also know how to rightly divide scriptures and give them their God given true biblical sense, so as not to confuse the simple and corrupt God's word by my lack of ability to rightly divided them.

No you don't. In adding Gentiles into the mix your interpretations that follow are WRONG. That "strong delusion" in Thessalonians is to me that false doctrine that Gentiles are part of God's salvation and deliverance.

Jeremiah, his Gentile name is Paul which he went by, thank you very much! Not going to get into the subject of limited the gospel to the natural seed of Abraham, for that's not the purpose of this thread. The new covenant does include the Gentiles nations, not in your doctrine but in the scriptures. I will only add this for now: The house of Israel (Gentiles) and the house of Judah, (the natural children of Abraham), are the two witnesses of God, etc., God use the northern kingdoms to typify the Gentiles nation in the OT prophecy is very clear and I have shown this to you in another thread, so not going to rehash it here in this one at the present time.

NONE of the three Hebrew covenants include Gentiles. When you start there at the beginning then you will end with the truth of the matter: THERE ARE NO GENTILES IN THE ABRAHAM, MOSAIC, AND NEW COVENANTS.

I just spent time showing you that you need to read more to see exactly what we are saying, do not cherry pick and run with that and try to make us say something that we are not saying, not do we believe. Now you can show yourself to be a noble Christian by reading this post and confess what I am saying is we do not look to Moses for justification of our sins, but to Christ alone. We do not live by certain law in the OT mainly ones that governed he dietary laws of Israel, and many of their ordinances that were meant only for them and only until the true biblical reformation that took place from Christ's death until the scriptures were completed around Paul's days as far as his epistles goes, John's book of Revelation came later.

I'm not the one holding to error. YOU are the one who is adding to the closed Bible. For over a thousand years while the Hebrews possessed the Word of God never have they ever included Gentiles in their inheritance.
ADDING GENTILES is the error of Gentiles. And I can historically pinpoint WHEN this erroneous change took place to add Gentiles into the covenants and from there into God's salvation.

UNLESS you can show me unequivocally any Scripture that God included Gentiles then you will have something to stand on. But since there is NO COVENANT between God and Gentiles, then I am sorry, Gentiles are asped-out!

 

[Studyman]

3) @Studyman ~ What is Paul referring to "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,"?

Paul used to be a Pharisee, and as such, was a Zealous promoter of the "Jews Religion" including the Law of the Pharisees. He tells you this earlier in this chapter.

"Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee";

Rom. 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being "ignorant of God's righteousness", and going about to establish "their own righteousness", have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness "of God".

But Paul repented and was renewed in the Spirit of his mind, and had "put on the new man, which "after God" (Not the Pharisees) is created in righteousness and true holiness".

This would not be the "his own righteousness", but the Righteousness "of God". This is what Paul taught the Jews and Gentiles.

Rom. 6: 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye "were" the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, "ye became" the servants "of righteousness".

Again, not the Righteousness of man, or the Law of the Pharisees, but the righteousness of God, that was in Christ Jesus.

If you were interested in the Truth Paul was teaching you would have posted just a few more verses from Paul, and maybe would have understood this as well.

Phil. 3: 9 And be found in him, not having "mine own righteousness", which is of the law,

This was the Law of the Pharisee, because God's Law has always instructed men to live by HIS Righteousness, not their own, from the very beginning. Which Paul proves over and over and over, as the New Man that had become the Servant of God's Righteousness, no longer a servant to his own.

but that which is through the faith of Christ, (Unconditional belief in God, shown by works) the righteousness which is "of God" by faith (unconditional belief in God, not the Law of the Pharisee)

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means "I might attain" unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I "count not" myself to have apprehended: but this one thing "I do", forgetting those things "which are behind", and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark "for the prize" of the high calling of God (Which is) in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Think about how foolish your philosophy is in this matter.

What LAW OF GOD ever instructed a man to reject God's Righteousness, and Live by their Own Righteousness instead? You can not find even One from God.

But according to the Holy Scriptures, the Pharisees had created their own Laws which promoted their own righteousness, as they refused to submit to God's Righteousness.

Paul hoped that he might be found of God, not having his own righteousness, which is of the Law of the Pharisees, but the Righteousness which is of God, by belief in God, the same belief that was in Christ Jesus. And for this reason he pressed for the perfection Jesus instructed, the perfection that was in the Christ Jesus, and became as Servant of God's Righteousness, not his own.

 

[Red Baker]

@jeremiah1five

That's all well and good but your error - from which all your theology follows - is that Gentiles are part of the Hebrew/Jewish equation. They are not. YOUR TENDENCIES of including non-Hebrew Gentiles into the three Hebrew covenants is the error your have and from which everything in your theology follows is WRONG

I'm not going to chase this in this thread, we have discussed this with you in another thread not too long ago. I may do it again, but not here, not now. Have a nice life Mr. Gentile, for according to your own teachings, if the corrupt and sinful blood of the natural Jews does not flow through your veins, then you doomed to destruction. Got news for you, the Jews of all people have mixed themselves among so many different ethnic groups, thanks to Solomon, he go them off to a good start ~ I'm not so sure there are any pure Jews left as far from both sides female and males. Maybe there are, but who cares, Salvation from sin and condemnation is NOT through, or by blood~per John 1:13.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



I'm not going to chase this in this thread, we have discussed this with you in another thread not too long ago. I may do it again, but not here, not now. Have a nice life Mr. Gentile, for according to your own teachings, if the corrupt and sinful blood of the natural Jews does not flow through your veins, then you doomed to destruction. Got news for you, the Jews of all people have mixed themselves among so many different ethnic groups, thanks to Solomon, he go them off to a good start ~ I'm not so sure there are any pure Jews left as far from both sides female and males. Maybe there are, but who cares, Salvation from sin and condemnation is NOT through, or by blood~per John 1:13.

God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and with his Hebrew seed.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:3–5.

Nowhere in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation did God name, mention or include Gentiles in any of the three Hebrew covenants. What Saul says above clearly sets forth WHO is covered by the blood of Jesus Messiah.

Just as God commanded the animal sacrifice in the Law of Moses to be slain for the sins of the children of Israel; so too was Jesus' blood shed for the sins of the children of Israel.
If Jesus or God wanted Gentiles in their covenant He would have said so in the Old Testament. But there is nothing in the Scripture that says this.
To claim Gentiles are included with Israel to be atoned is to teach Jesus changed the Law of Moses, but He said He didn't come to change or destroy the Law. Thus, your claim that Gentiles are recipients of God's salvation is a ;lie and to teach Jesus contradicted the Father to include Gentiles is to make Jesus and God liars.

It is your interpretation that is wrong.

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all,
God blessed for ever.
Amen.
Romans 9:1–5.

Above are the main tenets of the Mosaic Covenant. This encapsulates the totality of the salvation of the LORD.
If God wanted to save Gentiles He would have included them in the Abraham, Mosaic, and New Covenants but He didn't. The New Covenant era is upon Israel, and they are the recipients of the salvation of the Lord.
God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and with his Hebrew seed.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Galatians 17:6–7.

God granted Abraham's request for an heir and God gave him one: Isaac.

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Genesis 17:21.

Abraham's seed/descendants are all blessed by virtue of the covenant God made with Abraham. But the covenant itself is promised to Isaac.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

Think about how foolish your philosophy is in this matter.

Sir, to say you are under a strong delusion, would be a understatement, but you are, and let me see if I can prove it, probably not to you, but, I trust for those saints seeking to know the truth.

Paul hoped that he might be found of God, not having his own righteousness, which is of the Law of the Pharisees, but the Righteousness which is of God, by belief in God, the same belief that was in Christ Jesus. And for this reason he pressed for the perfection Jesus instructed, the perfection that was in the Christ Jesus, and became as Servant of God's Righteousness, not his own.

Your post is unintelligible to even attempt to break it down to expose its many errors, nevertheless, we must, and we shall, by God's help. When a person is confused then expect his words to meander all over the place to just make a simple point, by the time one is finished, your head hurts trying to see what they are attempting to say. This is without questing you post that we are endeavoring to comprehend.

3) @Studyman ~ What is Paul referring to "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,"?

This was one of the questions and you answer is scattered throughout your post. The righteousness which is a person's own righteousness, is one that the person think he received by obeying the scriptures, it is something that he thinks he received "by his own obedience" from a commandment (s) is the meaning of Paul's words of being found not having MINE OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS which IS of the law, or a commandment I'm trusting in to be accepted into eternal life, that's "his righteousness" which is of the law, or a commandment given to man, that a man is sweetly living by and trusting in. Being deceived by the pride of his own heart, he refuses to see that even if he could keep one (which that's impossible) even one commandment, he must keep them all perfectly, and if he came up short, then he's guilty of breaking all of then, that one would think he would seek a righteousness OUT SIDE of himself, but a deceived heart has him thinking that he is doing quite well, and will fight against any who tells him otherwise, even if Jesus Christ was the one speaking to him telling him that it is so.

Example would help: Paul lived blameless, as far as outwardly works of the law was concerned, he lived according to the law, so he thought! He just did not know how wicked he was inwardly, until the commandment came with power of the Holy Ghost, which for Paul did so from Acts nine and onward. Before Paul's conversion, sin deceived him by the every commandments he was trusting in.

Romans 7:8-11~"But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me."

Paul thought himself alive, in a justifying way, before he learned God condemned his lusts. When sin is dead in the sense just given (7:8), then a person thinks himself alive before God. Though Paul had Moses’ Law from birth, he did not grasp the strict prohibition against lust.

But when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

The commandment historically came at Sinai, but Paul described his understanding of it. If lust was dead and Paul was alive before he understood, then sin came to life, and he died. It is by hearing and truly understand the law that we come to see our sins as they are (James 1:21-25).

7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.​

And the commandment, which was ordained to life.

God ordained the commandments as a religious system for justification, for the Law clearly declared that a man could live by keeping all its rules (Lev. 18:5; Romans 10:5; Galatians 3:15). Of course, He knew no man could keep it, so it was a schoolmaster for God's elect to bring them to fully trust in Christ's obedience and righteousness for his right to eternal life. (Galatians 3:19-25).

I found to be unto death.

Paul, like all other men, found the commandment with promised life to only condemn him. As we sing, “Hail Sovereign Love,” Sinai is no hiding place of safety for true self-examiners. The Law proves condemnation and depravity and actually stirs up the lusts to further sins, and it cannot justify man, regenerate him, or sanctify him through the sinfulness of the flesh.

7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.​

For sin, taking occasion by the commandment.

Without a law, sin does not have occasion to show our sinfulness, for it has nothing to break. But with a law, sin will quickly and thoroughly show our vile contrariness and wickedness.

Deceived me.

Paul had not known sin, but by learning the law (7:8), so this deception follows knowledge. Further, sin’s deception here is by the occasion of the commandment, thus after knowledge. Even knowing God’s commandment against a sin, that sin can and will deceive you to sin. Even believing and expecting the commandment to be for life, it will be an occasion for sin. Sin deceives in that men expect by the commandment to justify themselves before God. Sin deceives in that man’s corrupt nature offers every enticement against the commandment. Sin deceives in that a holy commandment provokes our profane and vile natures to more sin.

And by it slew me.

This is the death as in 7:9, which is Paul’s guilt and knowledge of death in light of the Law. As Paul saw himself rightly in the light of the Law, he knew he was sentenced to the second death. And he understood that if there is any hope for him to enter into eternal life in the world to come, then it must be through Christ's perfect life of obedience on his behalf, or else there was no hope for him, as a wretched vile sinner we all are by nature.

So, knowing our state by nature, and even after being born of God's Spirit, Paul did not want to be found in him in that day, having only his personal righteousness that he was proud of as though he himself had done all that was require of him to give him that right into eternal life in that day that's fast approaching all of us. There was another righteousness, which is of God given freely by grace alone that Paul sought to be found clothed with, even the righteousness of God secured by Christ's obedience and faith for God's elect, that Paul preached and defended with all of his might, knowing that this is the only means any man will ever be granted eternal life in the world to come.

Now, I'm coming back more to show you how you so corrupt this simple question with babbling words in a very incohesive manner, that even a wise man would find hard to follow, much more so the babe in Christ.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

But Paul repented and was renewed in the Spirit of his mind, and had "put on the new man, which "after God" (Not the Pharisees) is created in righteousness and true holiness".

Here we see how you truly believe in what Paul said he did not want to be found having mine own righteousness which is of the law! You are not alone, but you have a great company right along with you preaching, teaching, the same thing that Paul said he did not want to be found doing!

1) No man can repent and believe on his own, without God first quickening that person to life by his mighty power, to believe otherwise is to put your confidence in your flesh, and not in what Christ did to secured a righteousness that we could not obtain for our selves by doing certain spiritual acts pleasing to God.

Man's repentance is "not" the means of having our mind renewed, that's a corruption of God's gospel concerning his Son Jesus Christ. "No man" can put on Christ, UNTIL he HAS CHRIST! To believe otherwise, is to trust and have confidence in your sinful flesh as though you can to spiritual acts pleasing unto God without God first creating a new man within his elect. Paul said clearly:

Philippians 3:9​

“And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”

God has provided for his people HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, in Jesus Christ, that's why Paul said...the righteousness which is OF GOD, meaning he provided it for us, without us having any work involved in acquiring this righteousness since it is freely given to his people on the behalf of Christ acting as their surety before his law.

So, @Studyman you are guilty of perverting God's gospel concerning his Son and still are trusting in your flesh as though by your works you have made the difference bewtween you and the next fellow who may yet die in their sins.

Paul hoped that he might be found of God, not having his own righteousness, which is of the Law of the Pharisees, but the Righteousness which is of God, by belief in God, the same belief that was in Christ Jesus. And for this reason he pressed for the perfection Jesus instructed, the perfection that was in the Christ Jesus, and became as Servant of God's Righteousness, not his own.

I'll do this and I'll be finished with your post here. God's righteousness is not given by belief in God, it is freely given on the behalf of Christ being the surety of God's elect. Jesus Christ secured this righteousness, that if a man has, he shall never see death, never. One that has been made partakers of this righteousness, dare not trust in his flesh for any right to enter into eternal life in that day. His faith is totally IN CHRIST'S, life, death and resurrection for his only hope of eternal life.

You said: "but the Righteousness which is of God, by belief in God, the same belief that was in Christ Jesus."

What was IN Christ was the very righteousness which was OF GOD that he provided for us to be clothed upon, which Christ secured for us, the only righteousness that we desire to be found having in that day!

 

[Red Baker]

@jeremiah1five

God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and with his Hebrew seed.

Wrong, so wrong, Mr. Jeremiah. I'm gong to answer this one since there's not one on my subject to answer, so, I will answer this one.

Galatians 3:14​

“That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

Galatians 3:16​

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”

The blessing God promised all nations through Abraham was "free" justification by Christ, which is seen in heaven by a great multitude out of every nation (Revelations 5:9; 7:9; Romans 9:24, etc.).

The several promises to Abraham and his seed are in Genesis, recorded by Moses, but given 430 years before Sinai (Gen 12:7; 13:15-16; 15:5,13,18; 17:8-10,19; 21:12; 22:17-18; 24:7). The great friend of God and covenant head who received terrific promises was Abraham. When read carefully and understood correctly, the promises were chiefly through Christ. Therefore, what Paul has said and will say about Gentiles being blessed in Abraham is based on the very wording of the Law that the Jews took so much pride in!

These promises are very specifically made to Abraham and his singular seed, which is Christ. God’s promises were not to plural descendants through any of his eight sons, but rather in his singular descendant, Jesus Christ, in whom God had chosen all the elect in eternity.

Note Paul’s dogmatism about this wording, though he had used the plural children (3:7), which he will tie together neatly with the plural elect in the singular Christ shortly (3:29).

Every one of the promises should be understood spiritually first in Christ and His elect.

Any fulfillment in Israel is beggarly, carnal, inferior, and shadowy compared to Christ. The two seeds ~ of Jews and Gentiles – are united in one seed spiritually in Christ (3:28).

This is glorious news for Gentiles, especially those being treated as inferior by you and Judaizers!

This greatly despises Zionism, exalts the kingdom of Jesus Christ, and refutes Futurism.

What are the promises God made to Abraham and his seed that "Gentile believers" can claim? There are twelve specific promises to Abraham and his seed, with some duplication (Genesis 12:7; 13:15; 13:16; 15:5; 15:18; 17:7; 17:8; 17:19; 21:12; 22:17; 22:18; 24:7). Even the promise of land is to be viewed in Christ, for Abraham never owned any land, never wanted any land, and only desired heaven (Acts 7:3-5; Hebrews 11:8-16). Even the promise of an innumerable family is to be viewed in Christ, which is realized by the multitude that no man can number of elect in heaven (Revelation 5:9; Revelations 7:9,10). Even the promise of possessing the gate of his enemies is to be viewed in Christ, which is realized by our Lord’s great victory over Satan, sin, death, and hell (Gen 3:15; Matt 16:18; Luke 1:21-22; I Cor 15:25-26; Col 2:14-15). Even the promise of blessing all nations is to be viewed in Christ, which is realized by justification by grace through faith for Gentiles (Gal 3:8; Rom 1:5; 16:26; Rev 5:9-10).