2 Calvinists leave Christianity Romans 9

[praise_yeshua]

Have you ever looked up uses of foreknew in any lexicon?!

Because you are 100% wrong on this.

I've studied the Greek construct of years. There is no escaping the fact that foreknew is an indication of power. Power to bring about a choice. The Calvinist is right when it comes to foreknowledge. Arminianism is wrong. At least relative to the use of the word itself.

I explained foreknow above in a way that does not create a "foreknew foreknew" scenario.

 

[Diserner]

I've studied the Greek construct of years.

So what Greek reference or passage supports your view that it is an indication of "power"... can you even name one?

 

[TibiasDad]

I question which of us has misunderstood "Classic Wesleyan Theology".

I was under the impression that prevenient grace was thought to be "universal" to allow "all men without exception" access to the cross (making the rejection of Christ 100% the fault of the individual and relieving God of any responsibility). In essence, undoing the "Adamic Curse" with respect to sotieriology (accepting/rejecting Jesus) but not other areas of human life.

For the most part, I think this is correct, though I wouldn’t phrase it as “undoing the “Adamic Curse”. It doesn’t undo it, for we are still dead relationally to God, but we are also not as bad as we could be. Again, sin’s power is mitigated by God’s providential sovereignty- which is an act of grace- and the Holy Spirit empowers the gospel to speak to men’s hearts causing them to understand the truth of their sin and its affront to God’s righteousness.

PS. I would certainly HOPE that you disagree with me ... otherwise YOU should be a Particular Baptist, too. The world is more interesting with diversity. Like the blind men describing the elephant ... it would be dull if they all grabbed an ear.

I definitely disagree with your Calvinism, and am as far as you can get from being a Particular Baptist, at least in terms of soteriology. Diversity is good, fellowship is better. I have enjoyed our honest fellowship in this conversation.


Doug

 

[praise_yeshua]

So what Greek reference or passage supports your view that it is an indication of "power"... can you even name one?

First, you do realize that we are talking about God here... Right? Not some man that watches everything he forms/creates turn to dust? What power does man have to change his environment.

There have been philosophical arguments for centuries over the application of Omnipotence. Those include various aspects of God purpose in displaying His power.

At a very minimum, the Providence of God guides humanity to one of two determined ends. Damnation or Redemption. There are only one of two ends for humanity. Man is part of this process. We can help. We can hinder. We lead and we can prevent. All we have is limited power to operate in what God has fundamentally wrought.

The Arminianism presents a "back door" in an attempt to ignore God's purpose in these two ends. Even though man has choice, He will never create his own end. He can only accept the work of God for him (man) or reject it. Neither of these choices inherently have power of themselves. They are both based upon the Providence and Immutable Character of God. That choice is free but it most definitely limited. The only place it is not is within the mind of man. Within the mind of man, he thinks he can do anything.