Yes, that is quite true.
It appears to me a desire to defend an assumed theology leads to a denial of the obvious.
Yes, Calvinists—free will IS in the Bible.
- Thread starter Diserner
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It appears to me a desire to defend an assumed theology leads to a denial of the obvious.
brightfame52
Active Member
You haven't given any explanations. If you explain each of those verses in context of supporting your view, then I will take time to explain each of them in rebuttal. You have a habit of rounding up a bunch of verses and demanding your opponent to explain them, and you haven't explained them and you brought them into the discussion. They require a explanation from your opponent but not from you
Seems you cannot see
Pathetic non address of scripture
Joshua 24:15 (LEB) — 15 But if it is bad in your eyes to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve Yahweh.”
The Jews here were to choose for themselves.
Hello, God was not choosing for them.
Deuteronomy 30:19 (LEB) — 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
God set life and death before them. That would not be true if he determined one
It really is sad you cannot see the obvious and require an explanation
Proverbs 1:29–31 (LEB) — 29 Since they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of Yahweh, 30 they were not willing to accept my counsel, they despised all my reproof. 31 They shall eat from the fruit of their way, and they shall be sated from their own schemes,
Here it was their own scheme, not a scheme where God determined their hatred.
Romans 1:28 (LEB) — 28 And just as they did not see fit to recognize God, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do the things that are not proper,
Hebrews 12:25 (LEB) — 25 Watch out that you do not refuse the one who is speaking! For if those did not escape when they refused the one who warned them on earth, much less will we escape, if we reject the one who warns from heaven,
Luke 10:16 (LEB) — 16 The one who listens to you listens to me, and the one who rejects you rejects me. But the one who rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”
How can they be rejecting God if God determined they should reject Christ?
Acts 7:51 (LEB) — 51 “You stiff-necked people and uncircumcised in hearts and in your ears! You constantly resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so also do you!
Why the obvious verbal rebuke if God had determined their stiff-necks and uncircumcised hearts
Hebrews 3:8–9 (LEB) — 8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of testing in the wilderness, 9 where your fathers tested me by trial and saw my works
It really is sad you cannot see the obvious.
brightfame52
Active Member
When you address each one, I will
Do you ever use your eyes
Seems you cannot see
Pathetic non address of scripture
Joshua 24:15 (LEB) — 15 But if it is bad in your eyes to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve Yahweh.”
The Jews here were to choose for themselves.
Hello, God was not choosing for them.
Deuteronomy 30:19 (LEB) — 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
God set life and death before them. That would not be true if he determined one
It really is sad you cannot see the obvious and require an explanation
Proverbs 1:29–31 (LEB) — 29 Since they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of Yahweh, 30 they were not willing to accept my counsel, they despised all my reproof. 31 They shall eat from the fruit of their way, and they shall be sated from their own schemes,
Here it was their own scheme, not a scheme where God determined their hatred.
Romans 1:28 (LEB) — 28 And just as they did not see fit to recognize God, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do the things that are not proper,
Hebrews 12:25 (LEB) — 25 Watch out that you do not refuse the one who is speaking! For if those did not escape when they refused the one who warned them on earth, much less will we escape, if we reject the one who warns from heaven,
Luke 10:16 (LEB) — 16 The one who listens to you listens to me, and the one who rejects you rejects me. But the one who rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”
How can they be rejecting God if God determined they should reject Christ?
Acts 7:51 (LEB) — 51 “You stiff-necked people and uncircumcised in hearts and in your ears! You constantly resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so also do you!
Why the obvious verbal rebuke if God had determined their stiff-necks and uncircumcised hearts?
Hebrews 3:8–9 (LEB) — 8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of testing in the wilderness, 9 where your fathers tested me by trial and saw my works
It really is sad you cannot see the obvious.
Yes they are responding freely. They are neither forced or coerced. No fallacy there.
None of which deals with compatibilism.
Its really sad you will not address what tge Bible clearly teaches. The Bible is full of examples.
So God's determinism has no power bring about a certain outcome? He cannot bring about what he determined?
If God determined their response, then they are not doing so freely.
Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
And
God set before them life and death, blessings and curses to choose.
If God determined one, he could not honestly set the other before them as an option.
You have not addressed this
Why?
brightfame52
Active Member
False, because He determined they do it with their own willingness. Just like everyone involved is the crucifixion of Christ, every involved played their willing part without coercion, but their actions were determined by God Acts 4:26-28
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Now the words "were gathered together" in the greek is συνήχθησαν;
to be gathered, i. e. come together, gather, meet and its in the passive voice, meaning they were being assembled together, receiving the action. Same in Vs 27
So they were under the predetermination of God and at the same time they acted willingly and without being forced.
PS you have never explained a verse
brightfame52
Active Member
lol, yeah right. Explain each verse you posted, give context and if you do, I will in rebuttal.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
More and more it surly seems there is one among us who as John 12:40 said... He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Wont name a name, I only declare it is not I.....
Wont name a name, I only declare it is not I.....
Lol that would be something you never have done before
Joshua 24:15 (LEB) — 15 But if it is bad in your eyes to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve Yahweh.”
The Jews here were to choose for themselves.
Hello, God was not choosing for them.
Deuteronomy 30:19 (LEB) — 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,
God set life and death before them. That would not be true if he determined one
It really is sad you cannot see the obvious and require an explanation
Proverbs 1:29–31 (LEB) — 29 Since they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of Yahweh, 30 they were not willing to accept my counsel, they despised all my reproof. 31 They shall eat from the fruit of their way, and they shall be sated from their own schemes,
Here it was their own scheme, not a scheme where God determined their hatred.
Romans 1:28 (LEB) — 28 And just as they did not see fit to recognize God, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do the things that are not proper,
Hebrews 12:25 (LEB) — 25 Watch out that you do not refuse the one who is speaking! For if those did not escape when they refused the one who warned them on earth, much less will we escape, if we reject the one who warns from heaven,
Luke 10:16 (LEB) — 16 The one who listens to you listens to me, and the one who rejects you rejects me. But the one who rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”
How can they be rejecting God if God determined they should reject Christ?
Acts 7:51 (LEB) — 51 “You stiff-necked people and uncircumcised in hearts and in your ears! You constantly resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so also do you!
Why the obvious verbal rebuke if God had determined their stiff-necks and uncircumcised hearts?
Hebrews 3:8–9 (LEB) — 8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of testing in the wilderness, 9 where your fathers tested me by trial and saw my works
So are you going to address?
brightfame52
Active Member
Neither have you
And I posted that it has nothing to do with determinism or compatibilism. Which you ignored, of course, while spouting the same Provisionist drivel. Not one text you posted deals with either topic and neither do you.
Of course it does. LOL Hence the term "determinism".
Sure. Deuteronomy is addressed to a certain audience. His people already in covenant with Him. It has nothing to do with determinism or compatibilism.
There. Addressed.
Try again.
These people are open to choosing life. They may select or reject it.
Hello, according to your theology, such a condition can never exist.
Either they will be determined to accept or reject it.
If they were determined the elect as per your theology's requirement, they could never reject it, and if they were determined reprobates, they could never accept it.
But these people were open to personally accept or reject this life, and so your problem remains.
You have fallen far short of harmonizing your theology with thisscripture.
No one said they couldn't. What you ought to do and what you can or are willing to do are two different things.
Harmonized. Perfectly
And that would be bald denial, as your theology holds that God determines everything that happens. It also contrary to what your theology declares. The passage has men with the ability to respond positively or negatively according to their own will.
Hello
Your denial is of extremely poor thought.
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