"Works Salvation"

No, I am not going by the wrong standard. The question is, "Did Jesus misspeak when he described being born again as being born of water and Spirit?" I say he did not. In the phrase, "born of water and Spirit" in John 3:5 is what Jesus meant by being born again in John 3:3. Therefore the water in verse 5 cannot be referring to physical birth and must mean something else.
What did Jesus mean by following up with the word flesh in verse 6?

Start at John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Comment. I would say there are very few on this or other "Christian " forums that would disagree with this statement.

John 3:4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”

Comment. Nick was understandable not sure what Jesus was saying and he had only a child birth to go on when he heard born again.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Comment. Jesus repeats being born of water and the Spirit. What does Jesus not say to Nick? Anyone? He did not say Nico, Old boy. You are a pharisee and you understand what a Mikveh is for , but I am not talking about a Mikveh I am talking about a baptism in my name (at that time they were baptised in Jesus name)

John 3:6 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Comment. Jesus goes on to confirm he is not speaking of a baptism but that of a natural birth.

Jumping to John 3:7 “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

Comment. And never again hints at water.... he is into the "Spirit"

John 3:8“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Comment . And Jesus ends the discussion right here. IT IS THE SPIRITUAL REBIRTH THAT IS THE ONE THAT COUNTS. AND A SPIRITUAL REBIRTH DOES NOT REQUIRE WATER
 
Not according to the Bible.
Yes you promoting ordinance keeping salvation, that the beast religion, Salvation is through the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ Acts 15:11

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

By His Obedience Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 
@Studyman

So, if the law was added, till the true lamb of God came, did it truly have power to put away sins? Please consider and answer if you can:

There is no "If the Law was Added" to God's Commandments, Statutes and Judgments Red. There was a LAW that Abraham didn't have, a Priesthood Covenant that was ADDED to God's Commandments, Statutes and Laws, until the High Priest "After the Order of Melchizedek" should come.

Did this "LAW" or any Law take away sins? Of course not.

According to the Law, it was the "Priest" that provided for the Forgiveness. " and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him". You can read it in your own Bible, "if you can".

The guilty man was required to offer for his sins something of value to him. Not because, as the deceivers of this world "who call Jesus Lord, Lord promote, "to Earn forgiveness". But to teach them the importance of yielding oneself to the God and Father of all, who knows better than us what we have need of. And to show how extremely wicked and evil rejecting and transgressing God's Law is, as Paul teaches, " that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful".

Here is what Christ told the mainstream preachers of Malachi's time, who refused to freely offer to God their most treasured possession.

Mal.1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

7 Ye "offer" polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, "The table of the LORD is contemptible." (This is you accusing God of placing on the necks of men who trust him, LAWS impossible to obey, )

8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, "is it not evil"? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts.

Here is what God said to those who would dishonor Him with their polluted offerings.

9 And now, I pray you, beseech God that he will be gracious unto us: this hath been by your means: will he regard your persons? saith the LORD of hosts.

10 Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.

11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the LORD is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.

13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the LORD of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the LORD.

14 But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.

I don't write these things to you Red, but for those reading along. Is the Christ "of the Bible" not our High Priest? Shall we not freely offer to God through Him, our best and most treasured possession? Isn't the Kingdom of God a great treasure worth Seeking with all our heart? What do we really "own" that is ours alone to offer to God?

What do we have to offer that is ours, that would create in us a contrite and broken heart?

You won't find the answer in AI or some preacher that has transformed himself into an apostle of Christ.

But a man should know the answer to this question.

The law and its sacrifices "were" types, shadows, and symbols of the future sacrifice of Christ. While they were means of expiation by which the patriarchs testified faith, only the blood of Christ had the actual efficacy to wash away sin.

The Priesthood Covenant with Levi, and it's animal sacrifices is the Law that was Added, "Till the Seed should come", 430 years after Abraham. God's definition of Sin, Holy, Clean, and Good has not changed. Mankind has always been seduced by their own fleshy desires. From the very beginning we are told, "If thou doest well", shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"

The deceiver would have us believe this God is a liar, that we have no capacity to do well or not do well, that God decides by some random chance drawing who HE will accept and who HE will reject, as you preach to anyone who will listen. I advocate that men turn away from this world's religions, their righteousness, their high days and traditions, that you have adopted Red, and are here to justify and promote. And turn to God instead and Yield ourself to God, to be learned of the Father, who will, by His Grace alone, give us to His Son for cleansing and saving.

The same Blood that removed Abraham and David and Paul's Sin, is the same Blood that I hope, that I have Faith will remove mine.

1 Peter 1: 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

  • Weakness of the Jews' temporary religion: It is so clear that animal blood cannot cleanse consciences or remove the guilt of sin. If they could, they would have ceased to be offered.
  • Symbolic Value: The sacrifices under the law were not worthless; they were valid "symbols" or "types" through which believers could "truly" (sacramentally) receive pardon.
  • Retrospective Merit: The power of Christ's one sacrifice on the cross extends backward to the beginning of the world and forward to the end, making it the only true sacrifice. The Old Testament believers were by Christ faith and obedience justified as we are, not by the efficacy of animal blood itself.
Men of God from 1450-1800 (through the blessing of the printing press invention) all taught:
  • Temporary and Typical: They explains that sacrifices under the law only took away sin typically (representing something else), not really (or literally). They served as a "figure" or "shadow" for the time being, pointing forward to the true, ultimate sacrifice of Christ.
  • A "Remembrance" of Sin: Rather than removing sin, They all preached that the yearly repetition of these sacrifices actually served as a "remembrance of sins" afresh.
  • The Inefficacy of Law: They all with one voice maintains that the legal sacrifices could not perfect the worshippers, nor could they cleanse or purge the conscience from the guilt of sin.
  • Contrast with Christ's Sacrifice: In contrast, they all argues that by his one offering, Christ has actually put away sin, removed our sins from the sight of God, and secured a complete atonement that gives to of God's elect total peace in their conscience that their sin are removed from them as far as the east is from the west, never to be remember again, never.

No one in this thread ever said, suggested or even implied that animal blood washes away sins. You create strawmen, then argue against them.

"For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."
 
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