What is the Gospel

[Pancho Frijoles]

The enemy is the great counterfeit. A counterfeit looks almost identical to the real thing. Its an imposter. It takes training and discernment to tell the difference between the true gospel and the false gospel. No one would be fooled if it didn't sound good or right. We see it more blatantly by some who would add to the gospel with such things as PSA, tulip, works just to name a few. Or leaving out repentance is another one. Some never count the cost as Jesus said. We see it in the parable of the sower and the other parables that follow. Easy believism.

hope this helps !!!

The enemy can counterfeit words, styles, esthetics, ideas, images, appearances, theories.
The enemy cannot counterfeit a good life, because THEN it would not be an enemy. The purpose of the enemy is to produce a life of hate, indifference to the poor, greed, egotism, lust, etc. A life against God.

Jesus left it clear that Satan cannot stand against Satan: a divided house can't prevail. Jesus said this when he was accused of healing people by the power of Beelzebub.
If a person lives a holy life, a life of love, it is proof that Satan did not achieve its goal.
I am not making things up. It is Jesus's methodology: "By their fruits you will know them".

Obviously, some false pastors do not want us to understand this.
They want us to believe that having the correct theology (eg, their theology) is the proof that we are walking under the grace of God. They want us to believe that so that they keep control of our minds and pockets... or just to justify their own existence as pastors.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Even demons believe Jesus is the Christ.

We must believe Christ suffered the punishment our sins deserved on the Cross.

Demons are demons because of what they do, not because of their theology.

James explained this well. Do you believe X? Demons do as well. But they don't help the poor. So if we want to be better than a demon, let's help the poor.

Any demon could explain in this forum any theology with great eloquence. Atonement, resurrection, creation... any demon could debate brilliantly for TULIP, against TULIP, for rapture, against rapture, for Trinity, against Trinity. You name the doctrine. A demon could know it and explain it better than any one of us. He coud say he is convinced of X or Y.

A demon, though, would not live a life of love. Otherwise, he would stop being a demon.

So, what is the only way to appreciate the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross? Living the life of Jesus.
Jesus said "I am the Way". So let's show we understand He is the Way, but living His Way.
The Gospel was known by first Christians as "The Way". It is a Way, not a set of doctrines.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Who say God is not so holy that he requires Jesus to pay the price of our sin?

I say a holy God does not require that, precisely because He is Holy.
Holiness is not compatible with making A paying for the price of B.

Who say God forgives without the Cross of Christ?

Jesus says it, several times.

This is a very serious error, and against the Gospel of Christ.

No, it is not an error.
And, if it is an error, it is not serious.

So you are wrong, my brother, in considering it an error, but you are further wrong in considering it serious.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Those who deny Jesus Christ judicially took our place on the Cross, and recreate the atonement to no longer be about God's Holy Law and Christ's substitution on our behalf.

They create an atonement where the Cross is not necessary to forgive, and becomes superfluous to the remission of our sins through the Blood of Jesus nailed on there.

The cross becomes superfluous when a person does not live the life of He who died on the cross, but the life of the flesh.
The cross becomes meaningful when a person dies to the world to live a new life: like a new created man.
Just as Paul said:

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. (Gal 6:14-15)

 

[Wick Stick]

Gospel literally means " good news ". What is the good news ?

As I understand it, the good news is that God lives among men and works through us - the unity of God and man.

In the gospels, Jesus preaches this message using the metaphor of a kingdom. God is a present king, and we are His subjects.

Matthew 4:
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Paul teaches this same thing using a metaphor of the body. Christ is the head, and those who are joined to Him are other parts of that same body:

1Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

In Romans 11, The symbolism is of a tree. Christ is the Root, and the branches are attached to him, some natural, some grafted in, and some pruned.

In 1st Peter, the metaphor is of the temple. The people are stones, which when fitted together with Jesus, the chief cornerstone, become the temple in which God dwells:

1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The picture changes, but the message remains the same from the gospels to the epistles... even Paul. God is with us (Emmanuel). When we accept His reign, He works through us.

 

[civic]

As I understand it, the good news is that God lives among men and works through us - the unity of God and man.

In the gospels, Jesus preaches this message using the metaphor of a kingdom. God is a present king, and we are His subjects.

Matthew 4:
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Paul teaches this same thing using a metaphor of the body. Christ is the head, and those who are joined to Him are other parts of that same body:

1Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

In Romans 11, The symbolism is of a tree. Christ is the Root, and the branches are attached to him, some natural, some grafted in, and some pruned.

In 1st Peter, the metaphor is of the temple. The people are stones, which when fitted together with Jesus, the chief cornerstone, become the temple in which God dwells:

1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The picture changes, but the message remains the same from the gospels to the epistles... even Paul. God is with us (Emmanuel). When we accept His reign, He works through us.

Thanks I like where you are coming from with your pov.

 

[TedT]

Gospel literally means " good news ". What is the good news ?

The gospel is Christological or Christ centered. The message is about Jesus.

Your study has covered the who, why, and what of GOD's good news extremely well for us but it misses the when...when did HE teach us the gospel?

Colossians 1:23 ...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

The phrase that HAS BEEN PROCLAIMED to every creature under heaven uses a past tense that apparently means "past and finished but is repeated into the future"...how about that? How does EVERY creature having heard the gospel fit with the idea that each person is created on earth at conception or birth and earliest humans can have heard is not until they are young children??? What about the millions of people we know that never heard of the gospel, or YHWH or Christ throughout the eons of humankind?

every creature:
Strong's G2937 - ktisis: creature:
1) the act of founding, establishing, building etc
a) the act of creating, creation
b) creation i.e. thing created
1) of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation
a) anything created
therefore I suggest that the interpretation of every creature under heaven or as some have it all of creation (past, present and future) has ALREADY heard the gospel, does not go against the words as written, only against current favourite theory of our creation.

This is a tie-in to Jn 3:18 in which we are told that the faithful (those who accepted the proclamation of the gospel they heard as the truth) who sin are never condemned while those who have never had faith (ie, those who rejected the proclamation of the gospel they heard as lies proving to themselves that YHWH was a liar and a false god) are condemned ALREADY...which doesn't fit the current model of everyone's supposed ability to turn to faith and so be saved.

I also suggest that this proclamation which we all heard is related to those sinners who CAN turn to faith as a RETURN to a faith they had before, to wit:
1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray: but are now RETURNED unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
To return, one must have been there before, at least, according to the normal use of the word. Therefore, in this verse, it would be normal to infer that the sheep (those who accepted the proclamation of the gospel they heard as the truth) that had gone astray, were, at one time, part of the Shepherd's flock but had strayed away from HIS care. Since I am sure that the Shepherd was not negligent, the straying away from HIS care must have involved some rebellion.

Therefore, it is normally obvious that Peter is writing to some apostatized (gone astray) Christians, ie, His sheep, people of His flock. It is also normally apparent that what he was writing is intended for every new convert in every age since.

Therefore, it seems prima facie that the Holy Spirit would have us believe that all of the Church has personally apostatized from Christ prior to their conversion in this life which is a return to faith. Since we are conceived as sinners, it is easy to see that we apostatized, rebelled, from Christ before our conception into mankind and that is why we are sinners at our birth. GOD didn't make us sinners to suffer as humans, we did it to ourselves by rebellion...

I think that Peter bore added witness to this fact in 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ...which ...hath begotten us AGAIN unto a lively hope...

Just when was the first time you were begotten by GOD? And when did you get unbegotten? Well, unless you are one of those earthly backslidden types, the only time such an un-begetting or rebellion could have taken place so you could be born as a sinner is prior to your conception. And since Peter is writing to the whole Church rather than to just the backslidden types, he must be referring to a pre-conception rebellion and the straying of HIS elect since that time, which straying or rebellion ends only upon our earthly conversion to Christ, to obedience unto holiness, that is, upon being born in Christ again, begotten again.

 

[Wick Stick]

Just when was the first time you were begotten by GOD? And when did you get unbegotten? Well, unless you are one of those earthly backslidden types, the only time such an un-begetting or rebellion could have taken place so you could be born as a sinner is prior to your conception. And since Peter is writing to the whole Church rather than to just the backslidden types, he must be referring to a pre-conception rebellion and the straying of HIS elect since that time, which straying or rebellion ends only upon our earthly conversion to Christ, to obedience unto holiness, that is, upon being born in Christ again, begotten again.

How can people go into apostasy before they are born? Or, conceived? Is this a re-incarnation thing?

 

[civic]

Your study has covered the who, why, and what of GOD's good news extremely well for us but it misses the when...when did HE teach us the gospel?

Colossians 1:23 ...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

The phrase that HAS BEEN PROCLAIMED to every creature under heaven uses a past tense that apparently means "past and finished but is repeated into the future"...how about that? How does EVERY creature having heard the gospel fit with the idea that each person is created on earth at conception or birth and earliest humans can have heard is not until they are young children??? What about the millions of people we know that never heard of the gospel, or YHWH or Christ throughout the eons of humankind?

every creature:
Strong's G2937 - ktisis: creature:
1) the act of founding, establishing, building etc
a) the act of creating, creation
b) creation i.e. thing created
1) of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation
a) anything created
therefore I suggest that the interpretation of every creature under heaven or as some have it all of creation (past, present and future) has ALREADY heard the gospel, does not go against the words as written, only against current favourite theory of our creation.

This is a tie-in to Jn 3:18 in which we are told that the faithful (those who accepted the proclamation of the gospel they heard as the truth) who sin are never condemned while those who have never had faith (ie, those who rejected the proclamation of the gospel they heard as lies proving to themselves that YHWH was a liar and a false god) are condemned ALREADY...which doesn't fit the current model of everyone's supposed ability to turn to faith and so be saved.

I also suggest that this proclamation which we all heard is related to those sinners who CAN turn to faith as a RETURN to a faith they had before, to wit:
1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray: but are now RETURNED unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
To return, one must have been there before, at least, according to the normal use of the word. Therefore, in this verse, it would be normal to infer that the sheep (those who accepted the proclamation of the gospel they heard as the truth) that had gone astray, were, at one time, part of the Shepherd's flock but had strayed away from HIS care. Since I am sure that the Shepherd was not negligent, the straying away from HIS care must have involved some rebellion.

Therefore, it is normally obvious that Peter is writing to some apostatized (gone astray) Christians, ie, His sheep, people of His flock. It is also normally apparent that what he was writing is intended for every new convert in every age since.

Therefore, it seems prima facie that the Holy Spirit would have us believe that all of the Church has personally apostatized from Christ prior to their conversion in this life which is a return to faith. Since we are conceived as sinners, it is easy to see that we apostatized, rebelled, from Christ before our conception into mankind and that is why we are sinners at our birth. GOD didn't make us sinners to suffer as humans, we did it to ourselves by rebellion...

I think that Peter bore added witness to this fact in 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ...which ...hath begotten us AGAIN unto a lively hope...

Just when was the first time you were begotten by GOD? And when did you get unbegotten? Well, unless you are one of those earthly backslidden types, the only time such an un-begetting or rebellion could have taken place so you could be born as a sinner is prior to your conception. And since Peter is writing to the whole Church rather than to just the backslidden types, he must be referring to a pre-conception rebellion and the straying of HIS elect since that time, which straying or rebellion ends only upon our earthly conversion to Christ, to obedience unto holiness, that is, upon being born in Christ again, begotten again.

Bad translation above, its misleading.

Colossians 1:23

New American Standard Bible
if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


English Standard Version
if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.


NET Bible
if indeed you remain in the faith, established and firm, without shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard. This gospel has also been preached in all creation under heaven, and I, Paul, have become its servant.

which ye have heard … which was preached to every creature … whereof I … am … a minister—Three arguments against their being "moved away from the Gospel": (1) Their having heard it; (2) The universality of the preaching of it; (3) Paul's ministry in it. For "to (Greek, 'in') every creature," the oldest manuscripts read, "in all creation." Compare "in all the world," Col 1:6; "all things … in earth," Col 1:20 (Mr 16:15): thus he implies that the Gospel from which he urges them not to be moved, has this mark of truth, namely, the universality of its announcement, which accords with the command and prophecy of Christ Himself (Mt 24:14). By "was preached," he means not merely "is being preached," but has been actually, as an accomplished fact, preached. Pliny, not many years subsequently, in his famous letter to the Emperor Trajan [Epistles, Book X., Epistle 97], writes, "Many of every age, rank, and sex, are being brought to trial. For the contagion of that superstition [Christianity] has spread over not only cities, but villages and the country."JFB

hope this helps !!!

 

[TedT]

How can people go into apostasy before they are born? Or, conceived? Is this a re-incarnation thing?

Hi Wick Stick,
no, no reincarnationism nor any Mormonism - just an interpretation of scripture that hints at human's pre-conception or pre-earth existence (PCE), an interpretation I like because it insists GOD is holy in fact not just empty words and was not involved in the creation of evil in any way. It puts the blame of any person's falling into sin only upon their own personal free will choice to rebel against HIM and become a sinner in HIS sight.

A fairly important method of hermeneutics is taking JOB 38:7 at face value ...while the morning stars sang together and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy? Berean Standard Bible. Face value would mean as written without trying to make it fit our preconceived notion of our being created at conception. Iow, starting with the verse to see what it means to our theology rather than taking the verse to see how it fits into our theology,

You can also see how I try to use this principle in post #207...

 

[TedT]

Bad translation above, its misleading.

OR...are you being mislead by previous bad interpretations since translation is all about interpretation...?

 

[Wick Stick]

A fairly important method of hermeneutics is taking JOB 38:7 at face value ...while the morning stars sang together and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy? Berean Standard Bible. Face value would mean as written without trying to make it fit our preconceived notion of our being created at conception. Iow, starting with the verse to see what it means to our theology rather than taking the verse to see how it fits into our theology,

I favor the historical-grammatical method of hermeneutics. I find that taking English translations too literally often leads to mistakes.

In this case, I don't think "all the sons of God" (כּל־בּני אלהים) refers to all the people who will ever come to Christ.

 

[TedT]

In this case, I don't think "all the sons of God" (כּל־בּני אלהים) refers to all the people who will ever come to Christ.

I do! I like to think that we were all there together, singing the praises of our GOD for this display of HIS divinity and eternal power: Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. But there would seem to be a problem with thinking this refers to an earthly experience...in that it has never happened!!! No sinner has ever looked at nature and the stars and said: "Clearly YHWH made all this and is the One True GOD!" Former missionary Daniel Everett even reported that the Amazon people called the Pirahã (Hiatíihi or The Straight Ones) do not even have gods nor a creation myth.

There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE IN HISTORY that anyone who studied the nature (that which GOD made) ever came to believe in the power and glory of Jehovah. In fact, without Christian teachers explaining this (supposed) doctrine as a universal witness on earth, no one has ever taught it. Is this a great world wide conspiracy to deny that they had already understood YHWH before the missionaries arrived with these verses??

Think of the Hindus and Buddhists whose study of the nature of reality proves themselves to be of the divine essence and that they will become fully divine in their day. Proof of Jehovah? Not likely... If their damnation depended upon this verse to PROVE their lack of excuse, they will live forever.

This lack of reality for this interpretation of this verse demands a new look at it from a new pov.

"...the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen," "being understood by the things that are made" implies that these damned souls saw the creation of the world that clearly showed to them the proof of the invisible things they previously rejected as lies, except this concept is never considered due to the bias orthodoxy has for the 'we are created on earth' theory!

In fact this interpretation seems to contradict 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Are the invisible things of HIM from the creation of the world. clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, Rom 1:20
OR
are they hidden from the natural man who cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14??
PCE Theology suggests that both are indeed true statements and not contradictory at all. After every person was created in HIS image we, ie, all the sons of GOD, saw the creation of the physical world as described in Rom 1:20 but then, because of the fall, all sinners were flung into the earth, even the elect sinners Rev 12:4, this truth which they saw became hidden in the lies of men because of their enslavement to the addictive power of evil... Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
They know the truth but put it away, out of mind, because they love sin more.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.
Rom 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie...a truth they had seen with their own eyes.

Shall we be taught by Isaiah?
Isaiah 40:21 Have ye not known? Have ye not heard? Hath it not been told you from the beginning? Have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

First of all, from the context (you could read it) we can determine that what they have known, heard about, been told and understood is the truth that YHWH is the almighty sovereign GOD (Isaiah 40:10). That is what they have received.

Second, Isaiah asks his audience (that is ye) these questions in a way that demands an affirmative answer. In other words, Isaiah is saying: Ye have known, ye have heard, ye were told at the beginning, and ye have understood since the foundations of the Earth, that YHWH is the sovereign GOD. Isaiah is not asking questions. He is giving answers.

Next, we should try to determine the time when they received this witness. Once again, so far as this apology is concerned, this question boils down to whether they received it during this life or pre-earth life. I do not think that I am very far off the mark when I say that the words, if taken straightforward, seem to say that this knowledge was received at the time of the foundation of the Earth, ie, they understood these things when they saw the creation of the physical universe, Rom 1:20 and ALL sang HIS raises, Job 38:7, which to my mind is definitely prior to the conception of anyone on earth. Isaiah's answer is an exact match to pre-conception theology, simple and straightforward.

 

[Wick Stick]

I do! I like to think that we were all there together, singing the praises of our GOD for this display of HIS divinity and eternal power: Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. But there would seem to be a problem with thinking this refers to an earthly experience...in that it has never happened!!! No sinner has ever looked at nature and the stars and said: "Clearly YHWH made all this and is the One True GOD!" Former missionary Daniel Everett even reported that the Amazon people called the Pirahã (Hiatíihi or The Straight Ones) do not even have gods nor a creation myth.

There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE IN HISTORY that anyone who studied the nature (that which GOD made) ever came to believe in the power and glory of Jehovah. In fact, without Christian teachers explaining this (supposed) doctrine as a universal witness on earth, no one has ever taught it. Is this a great world wide conspiracy to deny that they had already understood YHWH before the missionaries arrived with these verses??

Think of the Hindus and Buddhists whose study of the nature of reality proves themselves to be of the divine essence and that they will become fully divine in their day. Proof of Jehovah? Not likely... If their damnation depended upon this verse to PROVE their lack of excuse, they will live forever.

This lack of reality for this interpretation of this verse demands a new look at it from a new pov.

"...the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen," "being understood by the things that are made" implies that these damned souls saw the creation of the world that clearly showed to them the proof of the invisible things they previously rejected as lies, except this concept is never considered due to the bias orthodoxy has for the 'we are created on earth' theory!

In fact this interpretation seems to contradict 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Are the invisible things of HIM from the creation of the world. clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, Rom 1:20
OR
are they hidden from the natural man who cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14??
PCE Theology suggests that both are indeed true statements and not contradictory at all. After every person was created in HIS image we, ie, all the sons of GOD, saw the creation of the physical world as described in Rom 1:20 but then, because of the fall, all sinners were flung into the earth, even the elect sinners Rev 12:4, this truth which they saw became hidden in the lies of men because of their enslavement to the addictive power of evil... Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
They know the truth but put it away, out of mind, because they love sin more.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.
Rom 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie...a truth they had seen with their own eyes.

Shall we be taught by Isaiah?
Isaiah 40:21 Have ye not known? Have ye not heard? Hath it not been told you from the beginning? Have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

First of all, from the context (you could read it) we can determine that what they have known, heard about, been told and understood is the truth that YHWH is the almighty sovereign GOD (Isaiah 40:10). That is what they have received.

Second, Isaiah asks his audience (that is ye) these questions in a way that demands an affirmative answer. In other words, Isaiah is saying: Ye have known, ye have heard, ye were told at the beginning, and ye have understood since the foundations of the Earth, that YHWH is the sovereign GOD. Isaiah is not asking questions. He is giving answers.

Next, we should try to determine the time when they received this witness. Once again, so far as this apology is concerned, this question boils down to whether they received it during this life or pre-earth life. I do not think that I am very far off the mark when I say that the words, if taken straightforward, seem to say that this knowledge was received at the time of the foundation of the Earth, ie, they understood these things when they saw the creation of the physical universe, Rom 1:20 and ALL sang HIS raises, Job 38:7, which to my mind is definitely prior to the conception of anyone on earth. Isaiah's answer is an exact match to pre-conception theology, simple and straightforward.

You've created yourself a whole new theology, there. I think I could probably find a different meaning for most of those verses, but this topic isn't about that.

With regards to the original verse from Job 38, I find that "all the sons of God" there refers back to the first chapter of the book, where those same sons of God come together (along with Satan) and they have a discussion about Job.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Gospel literally means " good news ". What is the good news ?

the Greek word is where we get our English word from evangelism

euaggelion: good news
Original Word: εὐαγγέλιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: euaggelion
Phonetic Spelling: (yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on)
Definition: good news
Usage: the good news of the coming of the Messiah, the gospel; the gen. after it expresses sometimes the giver (God), sometimes the subject (the Messiah, etc.), sometimes the human transmitter (an apostle).

There is One God
There is One Lord
There is One Sovereign
There is One Master
There is One Faith
There is One Baptism
There is One Jesus
There is only One way to God
There is One Savior

And there is One Gospel

Galatians 1:6
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

So since there is only One God, One Savior, One way to God through Christ, One faith, One baptism and One Gospel- there is only one way to be saved.

Paul defines that Gospel by which we are saved below:

1 Corinthians 15:1-19
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

Only One way to be saved, by One Person, One Gospel and One Faith. In Him alone. Scripture is really very exclusive here but inclusive to all that come to Him freely!

And Paul received this gospel directly from Christ by personal revelation

Galatians 1:11-12
I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

This gospel is Eternal !

Revelation 14:6
Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation and tribe and tongue and people

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus passed on the gospel to His Disciples. Its the same Gospel but Christ had not suffered, died, risen yet. The disciples didn't understand the Passion until after His Resurrection, they were in denial.

Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.” — John 13:7,19

After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. — John 2:22

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. — Matthew 16:21

Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!” — Matthew 20:17-19

After His Resurrection

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. — Luke 24:25-27

He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. — Luke 24:44-45

Are you teaching others the one true Gospel ?

Ones salvation depends upon the one true gospel !

The gospel is Christological or Christ centered. The message is about Jesus. So, the question becomes one of identity. Who is Jesus? Let’s see what Scripture declares about the identity of Jesus and the salvation message. We see in the opening of Matthews’s gospel that Jesus is identified as Immanuel which means literally that God is with us. In Luke’s gospel we see that Jesus was born the Savior of the world. In John’s gospel we read that the Word was with God and the Word became flesh. We beheld His Glory. We also read in the same gospel (meaning good news) that God sent His Son to be the Savior. Where did He send Him from? Jesus gives us the answer to the question in John 17:5. He was together with the Father before creation and shared His Glory which is Gods alone. Jesus also tells His followers why do you ask to see the Father? To see Me is to see the Father. The Father and I are One. Basically, He is telling them He is God, you are looking at Him. This is why the Pharisees tried to stone Him on many occasions for claiming to be God (see John 8:56-60)

Also, we see the His Apostles identify Jesus as God. Thomas in John 20:28. Paul in Romans 9:5, Titus 2:13. Peter in 2 Peter 1:1,11. Hebrews 1-2, Jude and John in 1 John 1 and 5:20. Also the entire book of Revelation.

Acts it declares there is no other name given by which men must be saved! Not the name of the Father, not the name of the H.S. but the name of Jesus who represents the Godhead.

So, the gospel is Christ centered and one must know in whom they are placing their faith in to be saved.

Can I place my faith in Paul and be saved?
Can I place my faith in Peter and be saved?
Can I place my faith in Mary and be saved?
Can I place my faith in the pope and be saved?
Can I place my faith in the Holy Spirit and be saved?
Can I place my faith in the Father and be saved?
Can I place my faith in a god and be saved?

The answer to the above is a resounding no according to Scripture. There is no other name by which men must be saved period, end of story.

So, one must know and understand who the gospel is about and what He did for us. He came from heaven as God( the Word was God John 1:1, the Word became flesh John 1:14) to earth as a man to die for the sins of the world. This is the gospel by which men must be saved. He rose from the dead by the power of the Godhead (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) together raised Jesus the man from the dead.

hope this helps,

No man is saved by any “name.”
Jesus’ name does not save me more than the name of my grandma.
Demons know the name of Jesus. They can know everything we all know about Jesus and much more. That doesn’t save them.

Having faith in Jesus means following Jesus’ example.
If I follow Jesus example because I have believed what Paul, Peter, James or grandma have taught me, then I will be saved.
The demonstration of this is in front of our eyes,
Those following Jesus example are being saved before our eyes. Now.

 

[civic]

No man is saved by any “name.”
Jesus’ name does not save me more than the name of my grandma.
Demons know the name of Jesus. They can know everything we all know about Jesus and much more. That doesn’t save them.

Having faith in Jesus means following Jesus’ example.
If I follow Jesus example because I have believed what Paul, Peter, James or grandma have taught me, then I will be saved.
The demonstration of this is in front of our eyes,
Those following Jesus example are being saved before our eyes. Now.

All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

If we interpreted that verse literally , then we would not have a religion, but sheer superstition.
Salvation would depend on summoning the right name.
Christianism (or Judaism, or Islam) would not be different from abracadabra witchcraft.

Some disciples tried to expel demons in the name of Jesus and were surprised they couldn’t do it. This is because healing was not a matter of invoking the right name, but showing the right attitude, approach and action.

Acting or living “in the name of” means “as a servant of”, “as a follower of”.

 

[civic]

If we interpreted that verse literally , then we would not have a religion, but sheer superstition.
Salvation would depend on calling the right name.

Nope it’s calling on the right Person who is behind that name.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Nope it’s calling on the right Person who is behind that name.

No, my brother. It’s not a matter of calling a Person. It’s acting as that Person wants us to act.
Reality backs my position. Fairy tales back yours.
The gospel is not about fairy tales. My invitation to you and to the readers is to quit declaring to believe what you all, in the bottom of your heart, know is not true.

 

[civic]

No, my brother. It’s not a matter of calling a Person. It’s acting as that Person wants us to act.
Reality backs my position. Fairy tales back yours.
The gospel is not about fairy tales. My invitation to you and to the readers is to quit declaring to believe what you all, in the bottom of your heart, know is not true.

God is a person, God is the Savior. So its God who does the saving.

Salvation comes by and through faith and faith comes by hearing the word of Christ. Romans 10:8-17. Its faith in the Lord who saves in that passage.

No fairytales or myths but the truth of the gospel