What is Sin

[praise_yeshua]

This topic has come up several times in recent comments.

I want to make a few statements and let others respond.

1. Sin is breaking the law. However, the law did not describe all things sinful.
2. Sin is "whatsoever that is not of faith". Even keeping the law absent faith in the law, is sin. Obedience absent faith is useless. It is nothing more than compliance.
3. Where there is faith in God's forgiveness, sin has no dominion to condemn. Yes, you can willingly sin and still have faith in God to forgive you.
4. Every born again believer knows they are going to sin before they sin. Not always but sin can't possibly always take place without willfulness. Many believers sin because they know God will forgive them. Either consciously or subconsciously.
5. Regardless of willingness or resistence, Sin brings about humility in all men in that they will die.

Vanities of vanities. All is vanity.

I have much more to say but tell me where I'm wrong.

 

[Soyeong]

1. Sin is breaking the law.

So then do you agree that those who want to refrain from sin should avoid breaking the Mosaic Law?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

This topic has come up several times in recent comments.

I want to make a few statements and let others respond.

1. Sin is breaking the law. However, the law did not describe all things sinful.
2. Sin is "whatsoever that is not of faith". Even keeping the law absent faith in the law, is sin. Obedience absent faith is useless. It is nothing more than compliance.
3. Where there is faith in God's forgiveness, sin has no dominion to condemn. Yes, you can willingly sin and still have faith in God to forgive you.
4. Every born again believer knows they are going to sin before they sin. Not always but sin can't possibly always take place without willfulness. Many believers sin because they know God will forgive them. Either consciously or subconsciously.
5. Regardless of willingness or resistence, Sin brings about humility in all men in that they will die.

Vanities of vanities. All is vanity.

I have much more to say but tell me where I'm wrong.

SIN is that which works EVIL.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So then do you agree that those who want to refrain from sin should avoid breaking the Mosaic Law?

No. There is more to "law" than just the law Moses arbitrated. Moses is dead.

 

[praise_yeshua]

SIN is that which works EVIL.

Additionally, it is absence of that which works good.

 

[Diserner]

SIN is that which works EVIL.

And what is evil?

 

[Diserner]

I have much more to say but tell me where I'm wrong.

I would take issue with 4, as there are sins of ignorance and nature that are beyond our control.

No matter how hard I willingly try, I can't love you perfectly, for example—and that's a sin.

Number 5 you mean humiliation rather than humility, as humility is a virtue.


I would define sin as a spiritual attitude that in some way devalues God and exalts some value over him.

 

[civic]

I would take issue with 4, as there are sins of ignorance and nature that are beyond our control.

No matter how hard I willingly try, I can't love you perfectly, for example—and that's a sin.

Number 5 you mean humiliation rather than humility, as humility is a virtue.


I would define sin as a spiritual attitude that in some way devalues God and exalts some value over him.

Then Gods commands and promises are a failure. We can either choose to love others as Jesus said all men will know you are His disciples or its an empty promise, a facade. There are dozens of times Jesus tells us to love others, our enemies, those who despise you.

We are to be imitators of Christ. Its not an option. Its a command.

1 Corinthians 11:1
You are to imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.

1 Corinthians 4:16
Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

Philippians 3:17
Join one another in following my example, brothers, and carefully observe those who walk according to the pattern we set for you.

Philippians 4:9
Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me, put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

1 Thessalonians 1:6
And you became imitators of us and of the Lord when you welcomed the message with the joy of the Holy Spirit, in spite of your great suffering

2 Thessalonians 3:9
Not that we lack this right, but we wanted to offer ourselves as an example for you to imitate.

1 Peter 5:3
not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 6:46
Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

Luke 11:28
Blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it

John 8:31
If you hold to My teaching you are truly My disciples

John 13:17
If you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

John 13:34-35
I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

John 14:15
If you love Me you will keep My commandments

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

John 15:14
You are My friends if you do what I command you

John 15:17
This is My command to you: Love one another.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I would take issue with 4, as there are sins of ignorance and nature that are beyond our control.

Good point. However,

The Scripture details the "willing" ignorant. Those that don't "want to know". They could know but they have chosen to ignore their requirement to learn.

No matter how hard I willingly try, I can't love you perfectly, for example—and that's a sin.

Correct. I agree. That is one of the reasons to believe that we are "incomplete". Even maturity in the faith doesn't exclude sin. We are still always limited in our power to ALWAYS perform that which is good.

Moody said that this world has never seen a "man" that is entirely "sold out" to God. I disagree. Being "sold out" doesn't empower us to do everything. We all have our place. God has "others" and part of our journey in Christ is to recognize just how and where God wants us to be.

Number 5 you mean humiliation rather than humility, as humility is a virtue.

.
You can see it that way but I did intend "humility". Nothing is more humbling (to us) but to watch as what we've accomplished in this life..... fade away and end in death.

I would define sin as a spiritual attitude that in some way devalues God and exalts some value over him.

Agreed.

I will add #6 to my list.

6. Sin is found in not seeing ourselves in each other. The lack of Empathy.

 

[Diserner]

Then Gods commands and promises are a failure. We can either choose to love others as Jesus said all men will know you are His disciples or its an empty promise, a facade. There are dozens of times Jesus tells us to love others, our enemies, those who despise you.

Huh?

Jesus fulfilled God's command to love perfectly on the Cross in my place.

Please don't call my Savior Jesus a "failure."

Okay?

We are to be imitators of Christ. Its not an option. Its a command.

He who says he is without sin is deceived and the truth is not in him.

 

[civic]

Huh?

Jesus fulfilled God's command to love perfectly on the Cross in my place.

Please don't call my Savior Jesus a "failure."

Okay?



He who says he is without sin is deceived and the truth is not in him.

Nice dodge-shall we continue in sin that grace may abound ?

Pauls answer to the question. MAY IT NEVER BE !!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

Then Gods commands and promises are a failure. We can either choose to love others as Jesus said all men will know you are His disciples or its an empty promise, a facade. There are dozens of times Jesus tells us to love others, our enemies, those who despise you.

We are to be imitators of Christ. Its not an option. Its a command.

1 Corinthians 11:1
You are to imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.

1 Corinthians 4:16
Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

Philippians 3:17
Join one another in following my example, brothers, and carefully observe those who walk according to the pattern we set for you.

Philippians 4:9
Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me, put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

1 Thessalonians 1:6
And you became imitators of us and of the Lord when you welcomed the message with the joy of the Holy Spirit, in spite of your great suffering

2 Thessalonians 3:9
Not that we lack this right, but we wanted to offer ourselves as an example for you to imitate.

1 Peter 5:3
not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 6:46
Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

Luke 11:28
Blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it

John 8:31
If you hold to My teaching you are truly My disciples

John 13:17
If you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

John 13:34-35
I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

John 14:15
If you love Me you will keep My commandments

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

John 15:14
You are My friends if you do what I command you

John 15:17
This is My command to you: Love one another.

We can most certainly meet this goal at times in our lives. We should never abandon this goal/commandment.

God knows that my failures to keep these commandments are on full display among everyone here. I'm good at times and other times I'm not.

I believe this is where we get into the desire of some (not claiming anyone here is this way)...... to take the place of Jesus Christ. One of the essential aspects of Christianity involves pointing men to forgiveness through Christ. This works when we ourselves acknowledge our sins relative to His perfection.

This why I often say that many have a "self marketing campaign" and not a "ministry". They are doing what they do in "their own name". Not in His name.

 

[TedT]

1. Sin is breaking the law. However, the law did not describe all things sinful.

Did not sin come first and the law then came as the answer to sinfulness?
The law is NOT given to the righteous nor the innocent but to lawbreakers to convict them of their sin:
1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers etc... because it is designed to convict people of their sin, Romans 3:20 ...rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. These verses imply Adam and Eve must have been sinners when they received the command not to eat of the tree of knowledge.

They imply that the first sins weren't against any law but were attitudes against YHWH HIMself, who HE claimed to be and what HE promised us if we were to put our faith in HIM. That is, it was all about HIM and our self chosen relationship with HIM, not
a legal relationship at all which only started once we chose to rebel against HIM.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Did not sin come first and the law then came as the answer to sinfulness?
The law is NOT given to the righteous nor the innocent but to lawbreakers to convict them of their sin:
1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers etc... because it is designed to convict people of their sin, Romans 3:20 ...rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. These verses imply Adam and Eve must have been sinners when they received the command not to eat of the tree of knowledge.

They imply that the first sins weren't against any law but were attitudes against YHWH HIMself, who HE claimed to be and what HE promised us if we were to put our faith in HIM. That is, it was all about HIM and our self chosen relationship with HIM, not
a legal relationship at all which only started once we chose to rebel against HIM.

At the very least, they were peccable. Capable of sin. Sin entered this world and death by sin relative to Adam's actions. Sin certainly preexisted Adam.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Additionally, it is absence of that which works good.

Yup - Wesleyans have a problem with "Sins of omission"

 

[TedT]

At the very least, they were peccable. Capable of sin. Sin entered this world and death by sin relative to Adam's actions. Sin certainly preexisted Adam.

Yes... and all sinners were all flung to the earth, into Sheol inside the earth, before the earthly garden, Rev 12:4-9.

I suggest that everyone ever created in GOD's image, (ie, able to be a proper bride for HIM) was created with a free will able to chose to
1. put their faith in HIM as their creator GOD and saviour from all sin, or
2. able to put their faith against HIM as a liar driven by a psychotic megalomania and therefore a false god whose definitions of reality portray only HIS demented imagination.

Those who put their faith in HIM as their LORD and Saviour were chosen / elected to be HIS Bride in heaven, a relationship they kept even after they later chose to rebel against HIM as mistaken but
those who rebuked HIM as a liar, a fake saviour from a fake sinfulness and a false god, sinned the unforgivable sin and were condemned on the spot. The sinful elect who lost their faith / belief due to their sin were never condemned but those who never believed were condemned already,
John 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not [ever] believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. Berean Standard Bible

 

[Soyeong]

No. There is more to "law" than just the law Moses arbitrated. Moses is dead.

It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), but even if it were the case that sin were more then the Mosaic Law, then at the very least you should agree that we should obey the Mosaic Law plus whatever else sin is. The God who gave the Law to Moses is still alive.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), but even if it were the case that sin were more then the Mosaic Law, then at the very least you should agree that we should obey the Mosaic Law plus whatever else sin is. The God who gave the Law to Moses is still alive.

A Israelite is suppose to find find their sinfulness in that law. It was rare that it happened for Israel and it still rare that they still do.

God in the Person of Jesus Christ mediates another law. Moses is dead.

 

[101G]

1. Sin is breaking the law. However, the law did not describe all things sinful.

not saying that you're right or wrong, but something to chew on, or to consider. Adultery is a sin, Correct..... Correct. but when and where do the sin take place at? sin is spiritual, of the thoughts. the works or the manifestation of the thought acted out in the flesh. so a question, how can one tell if someone is a sinner or not? let 101G give the reasoning behind what he just said. scripture, Matthew 5:27 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:" Matthew 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." meaning in his thoughts.

if a person lust after a woman, or vice versa, then they have sinned and yet have not gotten into bed together, which manifest the act, which as said is called iniquity. but if the two parties never meet to do the act, yet are they not sinners? for sin is not just the act, but the thoughts.

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

not saying that you're right or wrong, but something to chew on, or to consider. Adultery is a sin, Correct..... Correct. but when and where do the sin take place at? sin is spiritual, of the thoughts. the works or the manifestation of the thought acted out in the flesh. so a question, how can one tell if someone is a sinner or not? let 101G give the reasoning behind what he just said. scripture, Matthew 5:27 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:" Matthew 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." meaning in his thoughts.

if a person lust after a woman, or vice versa, then they have sinned and yet have not gotten into bed together, which manifest the act, which as said is called iniquity. but if the two parties never meet to do the act, yet are they not sinners? for sin is not just the act, but the thoughts.

101G.

The will of man. The desires of man. Jesus is indirectly appealing to what caused Adam and Eve's actions.