Jesus said truth, God is his Father--A Father makes a son--God always was and always will be.
What do JW's Believe ?
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TibiasDad
Active Member
A Father always has a Son, and according to scripture, Joseph and God are the only fathers to be fathers of a son that wasn’t made, for scripture says plainly “all things were made by Him (the Word/Son) and without Him nothing that was made was made.” The Maker was not made! The Maker makes!
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
Yes
Haven’t we all lied about something? Doesn’t mean we lie about everything.
Apostates from what? An apostate refutes what he once espoused!
Doug
Catholicism twisting in your translation--Through=100% another did the creating= HE, Gen 1:27--not we.
Jesus told them their Father was the devil, yet they believed they were Gods chosen.
TibiasDad
Active Member
I’m not Catholic, but let’s use the NWT then, and I’ll pull a posting from my new thread in response.
Isa 44:24This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, Who formed you since you were in the womb:“I am Jehovah, who made everything.I stretched out the heavens by myself, And I spread out the earth. Who was with me?
John 1:3 All things came into existence through him (the Word), and apart from him (the Word) not even one thing came into existence.
Even your translation says that Jehovah created “by myself” and then says that the Word created “all things”, and that “apart from him” (the Word), “not even one thing came into existence.”
So either the Word is referring to Jehovah, or Jehovah didn’t create all things “by himself”!
As a bonus, I’ll throw in Isa 45:11
“This is what Jehovah says, the Holy One of Israel, the One who formed him:
“Would you question me about the things coming And command me about my sons and the works of my hands? I made the earth and created man on it. I stretched out the heavens with my own hands…” (NWT)
Jehovah is taking credit for personally creating by himself and with his own hands, meaning his own self actions without any other parties involved.
Doug
Yes, have you checked 1 John 5:20?
The two were being mentioned in just one text.
And the "theos" there is the true God and eternal life.
That would mean, Jesus is the true God and eternal life.
By myself= the only being with power and wisdom to create anything--He did it THROUGH his master worker( Jesus)
The only one called God there is the one called-the one who is true. It is not Jesus being called that.
TibiasDad
Active Member
That’s not what the text says, Keiw1, Jehovah said he created “by myself” and “with my own hands”; not with someone else’s hands or through another worker.
There is nothing that implies or suggests another being who is not God working with or for God to create. It is your burden to prove otherwise by textual proof.
Doug
You are twisting what is said--The word-THROUGH proves my words correct and your reasoning false on that matter.
TibiasDad
Active Member
Show me the word “through” in the Isa passages I referenced. I quoted your preferred translation.
If God had a lesser being with him and used that being as a thoroughfare to create, then Jehovah didn’t do any creating “by myself “ or “with his own hands”.
Again, ““I am Jehovah, who made everything. I stretched out the heavens by myself, And I spread out the earth. Who was with me? (Isa 44:24 NWT)
Jehovah is declaring that no one else “was with me” and that the creation of “the heavens” was accomplished “by myself”.
In hermenutics, an earlier statement is the foundation of a later statement regarding the same principle or point of reference.
The Isaiah passages establish that only Jehovah was involved in the creation event, and that he alone personally crafted the universe, ie, he didn’t need anyone to help him.
So if John is telling the truth, “the Word was with God” at the point of “the beginning” and the Word, is the principle being through which “everything that has been made was made.”
Here’s a little lexical lesson: “through him” is δι' (through) αὐτοῦ (him). αὐτοῦ is in the Genitive case, and δι', with the genitive, is defined as: “διά: gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of…” In other words, “by means of” him/the Word.
Isaiah quotes Jehovah as claiming that creation was “by (means of) myself”, ie Jehovah is the sole instrumental means/cause of creation, while John says the Word is the sole instrumental means/ cause of creation.
Language doesn’t lie, Keiw1: both the Hebrew and Greek are saying the same thing. The only difference is the term used for the one who created; Jehovah and the Word.
Doug
May I know who you understand has the eternal life in 1 John 5:11?
1Jn 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
John 1:3-- Col 1:16= through.
obeying his son. God GAVE his son all authority and judging.-Matt 28:18-- John 5:27
TibiasDad
Active Member
Since you apparently ignored my post, I’ll post it again:
Here’s a little lexical lesson: “through him” is δι' (through) αὐτοῦ (him). αὐτοῦ is in the Genitive case, and δι', with the genitive, is defined as: “διά: gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of…” In other words, “by means of” him/the Word.
The Word is the instrumental cause of creation, ie, he is the creator! Thus “in the beginning God, the Word, created the heavens and the earth.”
Doug
Do that mean that Jesus had the eternal life in 1John 5:11? Yes or no?
