Were the Men of Sodom Homosexual?
- Thread starter 101G
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101G
Active Member
and they believe in ERROR, Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
just like the catholic, assuming that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute all these years having people in disbelief. INGORANT men interpreting scripture, when the bible clearly forbid it. 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
all These IGNORANT interpretation by men are falling one by one everyday. if the bible, don't say it, don't add to it.
hope that help/
101G.
MTMattie
Active Member
FYI
Ezekiel 16:51-52
New International Version
They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Samaria did not commit half the sins you did. You have done more detestable things than they, and have made your sisters seem righteous by all these things you have done.
Ezekiel 16:50 adds that a sin of Sodom was that they did “detestable things.” The Hebrew word translated “detestable” refers to something that is morally disgusting. It is the same word used in Leviticus 18:22, where homosexuality is an “abomination.” Jude 1:7 also weighs in: “Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.” So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of those cities.
Ezekiel 16:51-52
New International Version
They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Samaria did not commit half the sins you did. You have done more detestable things than they, and have made your sisters seem righteous by all these things you have done.
Ezekiel 16:50 adds that a sin of Sodom was that they did “detestable things.” The Hebrew word translated “detestable” refers to something that is morally disgusting. It is the same word used in Leviticus 18:22, where homosexuality is an “abomination.” Jude 1:7 also weighs in: “Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.” So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of those cities.
101G
Active Member
Ezekiel 16:50 "And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."
abomination:
H8441 תּוֹעֵבַה tow`ebah (to-ay-ɓaw') n-f.
תֹּעֵבַה to`ebah (to-ay-ɓaw')
1. (properly) something disgusting.
2. (morally, as noun) an abhorrence.
3. (especially) idolatry.
4. (concretely) an idol.
[feminine active participle of H8581]
KJV: abominable (custom, thing), abomination.
Root(s): H8581
now where is this associated with the men of Sodom? as well as Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." is this not directed to ... ISRAEL? Leviticus 18:1 "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying," Leviticus 18:2 "Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 18:3 "After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances."
NOW MT, show the scripture that directly say the men of Sodom was Homosexuals? scripture please.
101G.
101G
Active Member
this is what 101G is speaking of, .... what the New International Version say?
watch this,
New International Version
John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
now Isaiah 44:24.
New International Version
“This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,
if the LORD was by himself, how could he go through someone else? either HIM in John 1:3 is the LORD.
now why not believe your New International Version now?
just as with many other scriptures. man interpretation. so @civic, @Fred, and MTMattie, are you going to believe your NIV on that?
101G.
watch this,
New International Version
John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
now Isaiah 44:24.
New International Version
“This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,
if the LORD was by himself, how could he go through someone else? either HIM in John 1:3 is the LORD.
now why not believe your New International Version now?
just as with many other scriptures. man interpretation. so @civic, @Fred, and MTMattie, are you going to believe your NIV on that?
101G.
101G
Active Member
ADDING to the word of God.... what a shame. "Ezekiel 16:50 adds that a sin of Sodom was that they did “detestable things.” shame on you. just as the scriptures states,Romans 1:21 "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened." Romans 1:22 "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:23 "And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things." Romans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:" Romans 1:25 "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." the bible clearly states, Ezekiel 16:50 "And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."
what was ADDED was, "detestable things", this change the truth of God into a lie. the verse said, "abomination" but the NIV changed it to, "detestable things".
this is what happening to churches all over, speaking of Jude, Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
and we have these same men among us today. when will people wake up.
101G
MTMattie
Active Member
You should know.
But the New International Version is a reao translation. Unlike what you spew out.
Why doe sthe though of those men in Sodom having sex with other men bother you so much?
Is it the kind of sex or is it that God punished them as he did?
Of course there were other infractions and not just the ____ _______. But you do seem to care more about the physical, rather then to counter with the other charges that warranted death.
Why?
Ai says this: The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were primarily guilty of extreme wickedness, including inhospitality, pride, and a desire to engage in violent sexual acts, as indicated in the biblical narrative. Their actions provoked God's judgment, leading to the cities' destruction.
Got Questions says this: This is not to say that homosexuality was the only reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Ezekiel 16:49–50 gives some more insight: “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me.” So, the sins of Sodom included pride, apathy, complacency, idleness, and unconcern for the underprivileged.
Christianity.com says this https://www.christianity.com/wiki/sin/what-was-the-sin-that-condemned-sodom-and-gomorrah.html
We learn the account of Sodom and Gomorrah’s sins in Genesis 18:16-19:29 with a preamble in Genesis 13:13. The Lord appeared to Abraham with two others (perhaps angels) while Abraham dwelt at the oaks of Mamre. In conversation with the two who accompanied Him, the Lord said He would go down to see if they had done according to the great outcry against them because “their sin is very grave” (Genesis 18:20-21). The angels leave Abraham and approach the city of Sodom and Gomorrah disguised as men. At the city gates they meet the gatekeeper to the city, whose name was Lot. Lot invites them to stay at his house, to which the angels agreed. Before they could even rest, men from every part of the city, both young and old, surrounded Lot's house. They demanded that Lot bring out the visiting men so they could engage in sexual acts with them (Genesis 19:4–5).
Responding to the situation, the angels blinded the men outside and urged Lot and his family to flee the city. The wrath of God was imminent. Lot and his family hastily left, and then "the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities" (Genesis 19:24).
While the passage mentions homosexuality, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah Genesis 19:1-29 tells us that their sins, of various kinds, had increased until they had become an abomination to the Lord (Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:27).
Answers in Genesis : https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/what-was-primary-sin-sodom-gomorrah/
While most Orthodox Jewish and Christian scholars have held the position that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their rampant homosexual behavior (namely, sodomy), there are others who believe that those cities were destroyed because of their pride.
Surprisingly, both appeal to Scripture to support their positions, most notably Ezekiel 16:49 and Jude 1:7. Therefore some critics have pointed this out as a Bible contradiction. But is it? Can this apparent contradiction be explained? For those who uphold biblical inerrancy and authority, the answer is obvious—yes!
But what was the primary sin of Sodom (and Gomorrah and the nearby cities of the plain)? There appear to be four main sins espoused, but only two by conservative Jewish and Christian theologians and scholars. A third and fourth “sin explanation” has gained popularity in recent years, primarily in liberal Christian scholarship, but it is not deduced from an exegetical reading of Scripture.
Was Sodom’s Primary Sin Rape? Or Lack of Hospitality?
Some have argued that rape was the primary sin of Sodom. So let’s start with examining that position. One such example is listed below:Another recent hypothesis about the main sin of Sodom (and one which is often taught in concert with the “rape” hypothesis) is the lack of hospitality position.
From the text of Genesis 19:4-9 though, if rape was the primary sin of Sodom, then the men of the city would have been just as willing to take Lot up on his suggestion to sexually abuse his daughters. If the men of Sodom were using rape as a means to humiliate “outsiders,” then wouldn’t Lot’s daughters have qualified since Lot was considered an outsider (verse 9)? Some have even postulated that this may be one reason Lot didn’t offer his wife—she was most likely from Sodom, therefore an “insider.” To address the potential question that the rape of the women would not have been as humiliating as the rape of men during this time period and in the Middle East, we need to keep in view what happened about 100 years later in Genesis 34. In that chapter, Simeon and Levi killed all the men of Shechem because of the rape of their sister Dinah. The narrative in that chapter makes this claim a weak one. The fact that the men of Sodom so quickly (and unanimously) refused Lot’s offer of his daughters shows that rape could not be the primary sin of the men of Sodom.
Notice the wording of this passage in Genesis 19:4–9,3 they wanted Lot to offer them the men (angels in the form of men) as sexual playthings. They had no interest in sexual relations with women; only after Lot offered them a heterosexual alternative did they then decide that they would now forcefully seize and rape Lot (“deal worse with you”), and this would have been in contrast to the way they had desired to "deal with them." In other words, in threatening to now rape Lot, they were admitting that their desire for the angels was pure lust, not dominance in the form of rape. There were likely many cases of rape in Sodom, but it seems clear that all the men of the city (except Lot, and perhaps his sons-in-law mentioned in verse 14) had become bisexual or preferentially homosexual.
Furthermore, if the sin had just been men of Sodom wanting to rape, then why judge the women of the city? Why were they not counted among the righteous when Abraham pleaded for Sodom (Genesis 18:23-33) and stopped at 10? Simply put, even the women of the city were unrighteous and wicked, so the blame cannot simply be on the actions of these men.
Therefore, the reference to their wickedness and ordained destruction by God beforehand (in Genesis 13:13 and 18:20) is entirely appropriate, because it was sexual sin (in this case homosexuality) which God considered “grievous” or “grave,” then later condemned and destroyed Sodom (and the other cities of the plain) for. The propensity for violence, rape, and adultery (which must have also been occurring in Sodom, since there were no women present at this mob scene) are all factors here though. God considers all sexual sin abhorrent in his eyes (Galatians 5:19-21).
From a biblical inerrancy standpoint, the primary outward sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is definitively settled in the book of Jude which states in Jude 1:7, “as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire”. Other versions, such as the ESV use the terminology “pursued unnatural desire” here. So, the Bible is clear that sexual sin and homosexual behavior, in particular, was the outward sin for which they (Sodom and Gomorrah) were destroyed.
What About
Now it must be admitted that homosexual behavior was only the outward manifestation of their true sin. They were a prideful people and delighted in cruelty and neglected any form of charity and justice. While this latter sin is mentioned in the second half of Ezekiel 16:49, it is not (as posited in the second quote above) the primary sin of Sodom and Gomorrah.Compelling Truth
https://www.compellingtruth.org › Sodom-and-Gomorrah.html
https://www.compellingtruth.org/Sodom-and-Gomorrah.html
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for their depravity, particularly homosexuality and other sinful sexual practices. The judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah calls us to take our sin seriously and to remember that God's design and plans including for sexuality are best.
https://www.compellingtruth.org/Sodom-and-Gomorrah.html
Honest Christian Answers says Nov 13, 2024The biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah, found in Genesis 18-19, illustrates the severe moral and spiritual corruption that led to divine judgment. The cities were notorious for their widespread wickedness, characterized by injustice and a lack of compassion for the poor and needy.
And many more....
YET YOU SEEM BENT ON ALMOST DEFENDING THEM AND WHEN OTHERS HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY OUT COMES THE
"ADDING TO THE BIBILE CHARGE"
civic
Active Member
In the deep waters of De Nile
It’s hard to wrap one’s mind around the elephant in the room that being denied
MTMattie
Active Member
Something tells me there is more to his then we shall ever know.In the deep waters of De Nile
It’s hard to wrap one’s mind around the elephant in the room that being denied
We all have our opinions when it comes to things like predestination V free will, or if baptism saves, etc.
But something from so many centuries before Christ, even... that caused God to destroy them... and then someone living today, to say it wasn't that...it was other things... because they never did that...
In the first place. When all of mankind who has heard that story comes away with thinking Uh oh... I best be careful.. that is an abomination.... Not , mind you, that one may be a homosexual... for if they abstain they are fine... but the actual act...even between a husband and wife.... EWE....
If one knows it is an abomination, why would one defend those accused by saying they had not done that... when it is obvious that there were other things they did caused their destruction.... why get so heated over this idea? It makes no sense.
Anyone ?
101G
Active Member
GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, and for this post. because this is what Christian do..... "ASK QUESTIONS", so that one can REASON the Word of God Correctly. 101G answered your replies point by point, but one segment of your reply ... 101G jump for Joy. and here it is,
now if you want to read the rest of 101G post, you can... but this has answered and ended it 101G.
also, your Last point at the END of this POST
That was 101G point, they didn't have sex with the men in Lot house, nor wanted to. God never said that he destroyed Sodom for Homosexuality, but for MURDER, PRIDE, neglect of the poor, where the Land flowed with milk and honey.... meaning a land of plenty. Just like America today. PRIDE, negligent of the poor, and as our brother Amos said, Amos 2:6 "Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes;" Amos 2:7 "That pant after the dust of the earth on the head of the poor, and turn aside the way of the meek: and a man and his father will go in unto the same maid, to profane my holy name:"
if this is not America to a tee. as for, "Why the thought of those men in Sodom having sex with other men bother you so much?" answer, 101G hate LIES. many use Homosexuality as a cover for their own SINS. as then and now, it have always been have a segment of society to take the hate for someone else coverup of their own sins.
as for the act of Homosexuality, 101G do not support it, as with other act, or sin against God. but 101G will defend the TRUTH, and expose any lies that men certify as false doctrine, or a false belief by the WORD of God. to 101G, that's worst than TREASON. 101G will, as said, defend the TRUTH, from all foreign invader of the TRUTH.
Haughty: H1361 גָּבַהּ gabahh (gaw-ɓah') v.
1. to soar.
2. to be lofty.
3. (figuratively) to be haughty.
[a primitive root]
KJV: exalt, be haughty, be (make) high(-er), lift up, mount up, be proud, raise up great height, upward.
in this case, both the JUST as well as the UNJUST did the same. Proud to be American? ok just look around ourselves, SEX, MOMEY, and LAWLESS all around us in office and out of office, the rich and the poor.
and Proud to Gay? just as worst. so, no one have a right to point any fingers.
UNDERSTAND, the LUST is the sin, (UNSEEN) IN THE MIND, adultery is the MANIFESTATION, or the iniquity, that is (SEEN), what was in the MIND.
again, thanks for the QUESTION,
101G.
First thanks for the reply, and for this post. because this is what Christian do..... "ASK QUESTIONS", so that one can REASON the Word of God Correctly. 101G answered your replies point by point, but one segment of your reply ... 101G jump for Joy. and here it is,
MT, you BEEN REDEEM, AN EXACENLENT DEDUCTION. Just as the Sons of God in Genesis chapter 6. if the sin was between the women and the fallen angels why punish the men. GREAT, for God is a RIGHTIOUS GOD.
now if you want to read the rest of 101G post, you can... but this has answered and ended it 101G.
also, your Last point at the END of this POST
That was 101G point, they didn't have sex with the men in Lot house, nor wanted to. God never said that he destroyed Sodom for Homosexuality, but for MURDER, PRIDE, neglect of the poor, where the Land flowed with milk and honey.... meaning a land of plenty. Just like America today. PRIDE, negligent of the poor, and as our brother Amos said, Amos 2:6 "Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes;" Amos 2:7 "That pant after the dust of the earth on the head of the poor, and turn aside the way of the meek: and a man and his father will go in unto the same maid, to profane my holy name:"
if this is not America to a tee. as for, "Why the thought of those men in Sodom having sex with other men bother you so much?" answer, 101G hate LIES. many use Homosexuality as a cover for their own SINS. as then and now, it have always been have a segment of society to take the hate for someone else coverup of their own sins.
as for the act of Homosexuality, 101G do not support it, as with other act, or sin against God. but 101G will defend the TRUTH, and expose any lies that men certify as false doctrine, or a false belief by the WORD of God. to 101G, that's worst than TREASON. 101G will, as said, defend the TRUTH, from all foreign invader of the TRUTH.
listen to what God said, Ezekiel 16:48 "As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters." Ezekiel 16:49 "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy." Ezekiel 16:50 "And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."
Haughty: H1361 גָּבַהּ gabahh (gaw-ɓah') v.
1. to soar.
2. to be lofty.
3. (figuratively) to be haughty.
[a primitive root]
KJV: exalt, be haughty, be (make) high(-er), lift up, mount up, be proud, raise up great height, upward.
in this case, both the JUST as well as the UNJUST did the same. Proud to be American? ok just look around ourselves, SEX, MOMEY, and LAWLESS all around us in office and out of office, the rich and the poor.
and Proud to Gay? just as worst. so, no one have a right to point any fingers.
correct, there were many others sins, and no, 101G care only for the TRUTH, no matter where it stands or fall ... IN MEN EYES, 101G is about TRUTH.
fine, what AI said, just read Judges Chapter 19 and one will see all of that.
WHAT DID GOD SAY? are you going to believe man or God?
see Ezekiel 16:48-50 again, BUT AT LOT HOUSE, it was to do harm to the two strangers. we can deduce this from the book of Joshua chapter 2 and from Judges chapter 19. when strangers come into one's town, or city, and someone is in acquaintance with them, then the Local get concern as to why they are here in town. remember what the men of Sodom said about Lot who took them in? listen, Genesis 19:9 "And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door." that term, "Sojourn" says it all. Sojourn means a "STRANGER, this one man, LOT, was a stranger and sojourner, nor a citizen of this city Sodom, but sets himself against the whole body of the inhabitants, and takes upon him to judge among the men of Sodom and if left alone, (and now with two others ... RIGHTIOPUS MEN), their way of LIFE, evil, is now in jeopardy.
see the beginning,
as you said, surprise, surprise,
as said, 101G is not bent on defending the men of Sodom or any other sinner. for the sin is sin, before it becomes iniquity. Listen closely, Matthew 5:27 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:" Matthew 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
UNDERSTAND, the LUST is the sin, (UNSEEN) IN THE MIND, adultery is the MANIFESTATION, or the iniquity, that is (SEEN), what was in the MIND.
again, thanks for the QUESTION,
101G.
civic
Active Member
Yep
101G
Active Member
AaronH
Active Member
You're saying that Lot offered his daughters to be killed then?
Since angels are (as you say and I agree) immortal, why didn't Lot just send the angels out and let the evil men engage in utter futility?
AaronH
Active Member
This response seems very weak to me.
Can I ask - did you grow up among liberals? It's not a political question per se. The reason I ask is we are all influenced by politics to some extent. Is it possible you had an a priori view that makes you want to diminish what otherwise seems to be plainly taught? I know you said you weren't speaking to whether homosexual behavior is wrong, but let's face it, this topic would not be so important to you if you did not intend to soften homosexuality's wrongness.
MTMattie
Active Member
And a preterist to boot.
So the Sons of God in Genesis were not the fallen angels?
The traditional view of both pre-Christian Judaism and the early church was that the “sons of God” were spirit beings/angels who took human wives and produced giants known as the Nephilim.
If you are one who holds to them being the offspring of Seth.... who married and mated the daughters of man....
Where did the Nephilim come from?
WAIT. I KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO SAY THERE WEREN;T ANY.... RIGHT?
civic
Active Member
And modalist quite the combo
Last edited:
MTMattie
Active Member
Why could it not be all of the above.
BTW... "Knew" is the past tense of the verb "know," which means to have been aware of or familiar with something in the past.
In the Bible, the terms "knew" or "know" often refer to sexual relations, particularly in the context of the Hebrew word "yada," which implies an intimate knowledge that includes sexual connotation. For example, in Genesis, it states that "Adam knew Eve," indicating their sexual relationship.
@101G Hey... hey... HEY!
What gives with Joseph. We gonna accuse him of abusing Mary or something... if Know, knew does not mean what everyone and their uncle knows what it means....
Matt 1:25..... KJV And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
NKJV and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.
Berean Literal Bible
But he did not know her until she had brought forth a Son, and he called His name Jesus.
Catholic versions
Douay-Rheims Bible
And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Catholic Public Domain Version
And he knew her not, yet she bore her son, the firstborn. And he called his name JESUS.
Aramaic Translations
Lamsa Bible
And he did not know her until she gave birth to her first-born son; and she called his name Jesus.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he did not know her sexually until she delivered her firstborn son, and she called his name Yeshua.
MTMattie
Active Member
Oh, I know..... Just makes me all a twitter and giggly.
