Were the Men of Sodom Homosexual?

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Readers who have eyes to see and ears to hear this is what Gods word declares below.

Genesis 19:4-5
4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

Tis why LOTT even said , DO Not so wickedly
HERE i have two daughters who have never KNOWN man ,
THEY wanted to perform gay sexual acts . ITS very clear .
I think they also forget
about what the tribe of benjamin had allowed to be done also .
These men of belial also wanted the men
but the woman who had run from her husband was the one they got .
I am telling us all there is an all out reprobation and deep dark spirit behind homosexuality .
Outright pride and total rebellion . Its also the end stage of a nation too .
Just like in sodom . NOW peek around this world
AND SEE how its all changed . They gained the ground through the victim card and the judge not
correct not .
WE seen a mild version of sodom at work a few years back too .
The cake baker . THEY came in and asked him to bake a cake for their wedding
But he , like lott said , THIS i cannot do , but you all can buy others , aka think daughter .
And what did they tell that baker . WE WILL deal worse with you , THEY TOOK in to COURT .
WE think we aint living in sodom , but we are my friend . ITS Worldwide now
and darker and darker this total reprobation has become .
I am but fifty three and i am telling us , TIMES have changed and laws have too .
WE are witnessing what GOD told even the jews .
YE have become as SODOM unto me , you no longer even HIDE your sins
you celebrate them in the streets . I KID YOU not GOD told that to jerusalem .
NOW LOOK at this world today . LOOK at it . And now we have us the LIE
that has come to merge the reprobate , the religoins , wicans , atheist
all hollering we are one , we are one , LOVE , love , lets us have PEACE n safety .
YEAH , TIMES RUNNING OUT all right .

 

[101G]

Tis why LOTT even said , DO Not so wickedly
HERE i have two daughters who have never KNOWN man ,
THEY wanted to perform gay sexual acts . ITS very clear .
I think they also forget
about what the tribe of benjamin had allowed to be done also .
These men of belial also wanted the men
but the woman who had run from her husband was the one they got .
I am telling us all there is an all out reprobation and deep dark spirit behind homosexuality .
Outright pride and total rebellion . Its also the end stage of a nation too .
Just like in sodom . NOW peek around this world
AND SEE how its all changed . They gained the ground through the victim card and the judge not
correct not .
WE seen a mild version of sodom at work a few years back too .
The cake baker . THEY came in and asked him to bake a cake for their wedding
But he , like lott said , THIS i cannot do , but you all can buy others , aka think daughter .
And what did they tell that baker . WE WILL deal worse with you , THEY TOOK in to COURT .
WE think we aint living in sodom , but we are my friend . ITS Worldwide now
and darker and darker this total reprobation has become .
I am but fifty three and i am telling us , TIMES have changed and laws have too .
WE are witnessing what GOD told even the jews .
YE have become as SODOM unto me , you no longer even HIDE your sins
you celebrate them in the streets . I KID YOU not GOD told that to jerusalem .
NOW LOOK at this world today . LOOK at it . And now we have us the LIE
that has come to merge the reprobate , the religoins , wicans , atheist
all hollering we are one , we are one , LOVE , love , lets us have PEACE n safety .
YEAH , TIMES RUNNING OUT all right .

GINOLJC, to all. also @civic, @Fred
this is what fear, without understanding will do to the masses.
Genesis 19:4-5
4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

no where do the bible say this, " Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.” this is what the new modern translators have added because of the phrase, "TO KNOW" was not to have sex with them. for if it do then the Bible, God, himself have confused us, (God forbid). for the apostle Peter said, 2 Peter 2:7 "And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:" 2 Peter 2:8 "(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds"

now if the bible say Lot was Just and righteous. 101G question, "Was Lot Just or righteous in offering his married daughters to the men of Sodom .... to have sex with them?" . 101G say no, because the bible say, Isaiah 5:20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" so, 101G ask all, was Lot righteous in offering his daughters for sexual desires of the men of Sodom? if so, then we all can throw our bible in the river, for Isaiah 5:20 here above negate that. if we call adultery, or fornication, which is evil .... Good, then we are without hope. for if Lot protect the men from an supposed homosexual act, "TO KNOW THEM", which is evil, as said we need to throw our bibles into the river.

NOW, common sense dictates it had to be for another reason to offer his daughters that ..."KNEW" .... no man, but yet had husbands. so, can anyone answer that question? again, "was it righteous for Lot to offer his married daughters to the men of Sodom for their sexual appeasement?"

101G want to "KNOW" is we approving adultery, or fornication as GOOD?

101G.

 

[MTMattie]

that's bee refuted see https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/were-the-men-of-sodom-homosexual.2578/post-173778

next

101G

Even the JW have this in their bible.

In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality* and pursued unnatural fleshly desires; they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.

The Peshitta has 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Last sentence of Meyers here tells it as it was. You wont read all of it I know... so just fast forward to the conclusion

Meyer's NT Commentary
Jude 1:8. Description of the sins of the false teachers; comp. 2 Peter 2:10.

ὁμοίως] i.e. similarly as Sodom and Gomorrha, etc.

μέντοι] expresses here no contrast (so earlier in this commentary: “notwithstanding the judgment which has come on those cities on account of such sins”), but it serves, as Hofmann correctly observes, appealing to Kühner’s Gramm. II. p. 694, “simply for the strengthening of the expression, putting the emphasis on ὁμοίως; those men, says Jude, actually do the same thing as the Sodomites.”

καὶ οὗτοι] refers back to τινες ἄνθρωποι, Jude 1:4.

ἐνυπνιαζόμενοι] only here and in Acts 2:17, where it is used of prophetical dreams, according to Joel 3:1. This meaning does not here suit, for Bretschneider’s explanation: “falsis oraculis decepti vel falsa oracula edentes,” is wholly arbitrary. Most expositors unite it closely with the following σάρκα μιαίνουσι, and understand it either: de somniis, in quibus corpus polluitur (Vorstius), or of voluptuous dreams, appealing to Isaiah 56:10 (LXX. ἐνυπνιαζόμενοι κοίτην, an inaccurate translation of the Hebrew חֹזִים שֹׁכְבִים), or of unnatural cohabiting (Oecumenius). Jachmann (with whom Brückner agrees) understands it generally = “sunk in sleep, i.e. hurried along in the tumult of the senses,” appealing to the parallel passage, 2 Peter 2:10 (ἐν ἐπιθυμίᾳ). Similarly Calvin: est metaphorica loquutio, qua significat, ipsos tam esse habetes, ut sine ulla verecundia ad omnem turpitudinem se prostituant. But in all these explanations the expression is only referred to the first clause of the following sentence; but this is opposed to the construction: it refers to both clauses,—else it would have been put directly with μιαίνουσι,—and denotes the condition in which and out of which they do those things which are expressed in the following clauses. It is unsatisfactory to keep in view only the negative point of ἐνυπνιάζεσθαι, the want of a clear consciousness (Hornejus: tam insipientes sunt, ut quasi lethargo sopiti non tantum impure vivant, etc.; Arnaud: qui agissent sans savoir ce qu’ils font); the positive point is chiefly to be observed, which consists in living in the arbitrary fancies of their own perverted sense, which renders them deaf to the truths and warnings of the divine word (so in essentials, Stier, Fronmüller, Wiesinger, Schott, Brückner, Hofmann[25]). The reference to Isaiah 29:10, LXX.: πεπότικεν ὑμᾶς κύριος κατανύξεως, is unsuitable (against Beza, Carpzov, and others), as here the discourse is not about a punitive decree of God.

σάρκα μὲν μιαίνουσι] not their flesh, but generally the flesh, both their own and that of others: the thought refers back to Jude 1:7 : ἐκπορνεύσασαι, etc.

κυριότητα δὲ ἀθετοῦσι, δόξας δὲ βλασφημοῦσιν] announces a new side of their sinful nature. As this verse is in evident connection of thought with Jude 1:10, where the words ὅσα δὲ φυσικῶς … φθείρονται refer back to σάρκα μὲν μιαίν., so κυριότης and δόξαι can only be here such things as suit the words ὅσα οὐκ οἴδασιν. It is thus incorrect to understand them of political powers (Erasmus, Calvin, Grotius, Wolf, Semler, Stier, and others), or of ecclesiastical rulers (Oecumenius[26]), or of human authorities generally, the two words being either taken as designations of concrete persons, or one of them as a pure abstraction: Arnaud: par ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗΤΑ il faut entendre l’autorité en général et par ΔΌΞΑς les dignités quelconques, les hommes méritant, par leur position, le respect et la considération.

Both expressions are to be understood as a designation of supermundane powers. Almost all recent expositors agree in this, although they differ widely in the more definite statement. These different explanations are as follows:—(1) ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς is taken as a designation of God or Christ, and ΔΌΞΑΙ as a designation of the good angels (Ritschl); (2) the good angels are understood in both expressions (Brückner); (3) ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς is understood in the first explanation, but ΔΌΞΑΙ is explained of the evil angels (Wiesinger); (4) both expressions are understood as a designation of the evil angels (Schott). In order first correctly to determine the idea ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, the relation of Jude 1:8 to what goes before is to be observed. The judgments which have befallen the people (Jude 1:5), the angels (Jude 1:6), and the cities (Jude 1:7), are by Jude adduced as a testimony against the Antinomians (ΟὟΤΟΙ, Jude 1:8) mentioned in Jude 1:4, evidently because these persons are guilty of the same sins on account of which those judgments occurred. Since ΣΆΡΚΑ ΜΙΑΊΝΟΥΣΙ evidently points back to ἘΚΠΟΡΝΕΎΣΑΣΑΙ, Jude 1:7, and further to ἈΣΈΛΓΕΙΑΝ, Jude 1:4, it is most natural to refer ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗΤΑ ἈΘΕΤΟῦΣΙΝ to ΜῊ ΠΙΣΤΕΎΟΝΤΑς, Jude 1:5, and, further, to ΤῸΝ ΜΌΝΟΝ ΔΕΣΠΌΤΗΝ … ἈΡΝΟΎΜΕΝΟΙ, Jude 1:4. Consequently, by ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς—if one takes ΤῸΝ ΜΌΝΟΝ ΔΕΣΠΌΤΗΝ as a designation of God—is to be understood the Godhead; or, if one understands τ. μ. δ. as a predicate to ἸΗΣ. ΧΡ., Christ. If, now, it is assumed that δόξαι is an idea corresponding to ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, and to be taken along with it, then by it the good angels are to be understood. But it must not be overlooked that the clause ΔΌΞΑς ΔῈ ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΟῦΣΙΝ is separated from the preceding clause by ΔΈ; and that Jude 1:9 leads to a different understanding of ΔΌΞΑΙ. When in Jude 1:9 it is said of the archangel Michael that he dared not ΚΡΊΣΙΝ ἘΠΕΝΕΓΚΕῖΝ ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΊΑς against the devil, this βλασφημίας evidently refers back to ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΟῦΣΙΝ, Jude 1:8, consequently the two ideas ΔΌΞΑς and ΔΙΆΒΟΛΟς are brought together, so that from this the preference must be given to the explanation which understands by ΔΌΞΑς the diabolical powers, or the evil angels. That not only δόξαι, but also ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, is a designation of evil powers, Schott incorrectly appeals to the fact that in 2 Peter 2:10, and also here, the unchaste, carnal life of the false teachers is connected with their despising or rejection of ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς; for although it is presupposed that the recognition of the reverence for ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς might restrain these men from the abuse of their fleshly nature, yet it does not follow from this that only evil spirits can be meant, since also the recognition of the reverence for the divine power restrains from the abuse of the corporeal senses which were created by God. To the identification of ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς and ΔΌΞΑΙ—whether good or evil angels are to be understood—not only is the form of the expression opposed, Jude not uniting the two clauses by ΚΑΊ, but, as already remarked, separating them by ΔΈ,[27] but also the difference of the conduct of the Antinomians, whilst they despise (ἀθετοῦσιν; 2 Pet.: καταφρονοῦσιν) the κυριότης, but blaspheme the δόξαι. The clearer this separation and distinction are kept in view, the less reason is there against deriving the exact meaning of δόξαι from Jude 1:9 (2 Peter 2:10 from Jude 1:11), and consequently against understanding by it evil angels (comp. Hofmann); only it must not be affirmed that Jude has used the expression δόξαι as a name for the evil angels as such, but only that, whilst so naming angels generally, he here means the evil angels, as is evident from Jude 1:9. That these may be understood by this designation cannot be denied, especially, as Wiesinger points out, as Paul in Ephesians 6:12 names them αἱ ἀρχαί, αἱ ἐξουσίαι, οἱ κοσμοκράτορες, and says of them that they are ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις.

ἀθετοῦσιν … βλασφημοῦσιν] The first expression is negative, the second positive; the Antinomians manifested the despising of κυριότης by the carnal licentiousness of their lives, whilst they fancied themselves exempt by χάρις (Jude 1:4) from the duty of obedience to the will of God (or Christ) as the κύριος requiring a holy life; but their blasphemy of the δόξαι consisted in this, that on the reproach of having in their immorality fallen under diabolical powers, they mocked at them as entirely impotent beings.

[25] “Those here spoken of are wakeful dreamers, so that they, when they should perceive with their wakeful senses, have only dreams, and what they dream they esteem as the perception of the wakeful spirit.”

[26] Oecumenius, however, wavers, thinking that by κυριότης may also be understood ἡ τοῦ κατὰ Χριστὸν μυστηρίου τελετή, and by δόξαι also ἡ παλαία διαθήκη καὶ ἡ νέα; on 2 Peter 2:10 he observes: δόξας, ἤτοι τὰς θείας φησὶ δυνάμεις, ἢ καὶ τὰς ἐκκλησιαστικὰς ἀρχάς.

[27] Also in 2 Peter 2:10, δόξας οὐ τρέμουσιν βλασφημοῦντες is separated from κυριότητος καταφρονοῦντας by the intervening τολμηταὶ αὐθάδεις.

REMARK.

According to Ritschl’s opinion, the actions which Jude here asserts of the Antinomians represent directly only the guilt of their forerunners (namely, the Israelites, Jude 1:5; the angels, Jude 1:6; and the Sodomites, Jude 1:7), and his expressions can therefore only be understood in an indirect and metaphorical sense. To this conclusion Ritschl arrives (1) by explaining the second clause of Jude 1:10, that the Antinomians understood relations to be understood spiritually φυσικῶς ὡς τὰ ἄλογα ζῶα, i.e. that they considered the blessings promised in the kingdom of heaven as the blessings of sensual enjoyment; (2) by so understanding the relation of Jude 1:8 to the preceding, that δόξας βλασφ. is to be referred back to Jude 1:7, κυριότ. ἀθετ. to Jude 1:6, and σαρκὰ μιαίν. to Jude 1:5. According to his view, Jude finds the guilt of the Sodomites

 

[MTMattie]

Moved this because it got attached to the other reply of mine and posted as one... Sorry

Tis why LOTT even said , DO Not so wickedly
HERE i have two daughters who have never KNOWN man ,
THEY wanted to perform gay sexual acts . ITS very clear .
I think they also forget
about what the tribe of benjamin had allowed to be done also .
These men of belial also wanted the men
but the woman who had run from her husband was the one they got .
I am telling us all there is an all out reprobation and deep dark spirit behind homosexuality .
Outright pride and total rebellion . Its also the end stage of a nation too .
Just like in sodom . NOW peek around this world
AND SEE how its all changed . They gained the ground through the victim card and the judge not
correct not .
WE seen a mild version of sodom at work a few years back too .
The cake baker . THEY came in and asked him to bake a cake for their wedding
But he , like lott said , THIS i cannot do , but you all can buy others , aka think daughter .
And what did they tell that baker . WE WILL deal worse with you , THEY TOOK in to COURT .
WE think we aint living in sodom , but we are my friend . ITS Worldwide now
and darker and darker this total reprobation has become .
I am but fifty three and i am telling us , TIMES have changed and laws have too .
WE are witnessing what GOD told even the jews .
YE have become as SODOM unto me , you no longer even HIDE your sins
you celebrate them in the streets . I KID YOU not GOD told that to jerusalem .
NOW LOOK at this world today . LOOK at it . And now we have us the LIE
that has come to merge the reprobate , the religoins , wicans , atheist
all hollering we are one , we are one , LOVE , love , lets us have PEACE n safety .
YEAH , TIMES RUNNING OUT all right .

You could be my son. Yes, I am that old. 78 to be exact and what I can tell you of what I have seen in my decades here
is shocking beyond anything.

Who would have ever thought it would ever be proper to not just teach sex to gradeschoolers but to lead them down a road away from their parents into all things trans... and having the kids not tell their parents and themselves lying to the folks. All in the name of perverted abominations

I have no idea where we are headed and I do not want to know.

Yes, time is running out BUT NOT fast enough, for I know it will get worse.

Yes, we all must get to the trenches, while we still can.

In my life, it has only been the past few years that I have noticed a number of people (men) who if not defending the act, at least
will try to say that God never called it an abomination. Of course he did. And one who vehemently did defend it was alright, due to a daughter.

 

[101G]

Even the JW have this in their bible.

In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality* and pursued unnatural fleshly desires; they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.

The Peshitta has 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Last sentence of Meyers here tells it as it was. You wont read all of it I know... so just fast forward to the conclusion

Meyer's NT Commentary
Jude 1:8. Description of the sins of the false teachers; comp. 2 Peter 2:10.

ὁμοίως] i.e. similarly as Sodom and Gomorrha, etc.

μέντοι] expresses here no contrast (so earlier in this commentary: “notwithstanding the judgment which has come on those cities on account of such sins”), but it serves, as Hofmann correctly observes, appealing to Kühner’s Gramm. II. p. 694, “simply for the strengthening of the expression, putting the emphasis on ὁμοίως; those men, says Jude, actually do the same thing as the Sodomites.”

καὶ οὗτοι] refers back to τινες ἄνθρωποι, Jude 1:4.

ἐνυπνιαζόμενοι] only here and in Acts 2:17, where it is used of prophetical dreams, according to Joel 3:1. This meaning does not here suit, for Bretschneider’s explanation: “falsis oraculis decepti vel falsa oracula edentes,” is wholly arbitrary. Most expositors unite it closely with the following σάρκα μιαίνουσι, and understand it either: de somniis, in quibus corpus polluitur (Vorstius), or of voluptuous dreams, appealing to Isaiah 56:10 (LXX. ἐνυπνιαζόμενοι κοίτην, an inaccurate translation of the Hebrew חֹזִים שֹׁכְבִים), or of unnatural cohabiting (Oecumenius). Jachmann (with whom Brückner agrees) understands it generally = “sunk in sleep, i.e. hurried along in the tumult of the senses,” appealing to the parallel passage, 2 Peter 2:10 (ἐν ἐπιθυμίᾳ). Similarly Calvin: est metaphorica loquutio, qua significat, ipsos tam esse habetes, ut sine ulla verecundia ad omnem turpitudinem se prostituant. But in all these explanations the expression is only referred to the first clause of the following sentence; but this is opposed to the construction: it refers to both clauses,—else it would have been put directly with μιαίνουσι,—and denotes the condition in which and out of which they do those things which are expressed in the following clauses. It is unsatisfactory to keep in view only the negative point of ἐνυπνιάζεσθαι, the want of a clear consciousness (Hornejus: tam insipientes sunt, ut quasi lethargo sopiti non tantum impure vivant, etc.; Arnaud: qui agissent sans savoir ce qu’ils font); the positive point is chiefly to be observed, which consists in living in the arbitrary fancies of their own perverted sense, which renders them deaf to the truths and warnings of the divine word (so in essentials, Stier, Fronmüller, Wiesinger, Schott, Brückner, Hofmann[25]). The reference to Isaiah 29:10, LXX.: πεπότικεν ὑμᾶς κύριος κατανύξεως, is unsuitable (against Beza, Carpzov, and others), as here the discourse is not about a punitive decree of God.

σάρκα μὲν μιαίνουσι] not their flesh, but generally the flesh, both their own and that of others: the thought refers back to Jude 1:7 : ἐκπορνεύσασαι, etc.

κυριότητα δὲ ἀθετοῦσι, δόξας δὲ βλασφημοῦσιν] announces a new side of their sinful nature. As this verse is in evident connection of thought with Jude 1:10, where the words ὅσα δὲ φυσικῶς … φθείρονται refer back to σάρκα μὲν μιαίν., so κυριότης and δόξαι can only be here such things as suit the words ὅσα οὐκ οἴδασιν. It is thus incorrect to understand them of political powers (Erasmus, Calvin, Grotius, Wolf, Semler, Stier, and others), or of ecclesiastical rulers (Oecumenius[26]), or of human authorities generally, the two words being either taken as designations of concrete persons, or one of them as a pure abstraction: Arnaud: par ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗΤΑ il faut entendre l’autorité en général et par ΔΌΞΑς les dignités quelconques, les hommes méritant, par leur position, le respect et la considération.

Both expressions are to be understood as a designation of supermundane powers. Almost all recent expositors agree in this, although they differ widely in the more definite statement. These different explanations are as follows:—(1) ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς is taken as a designation of God or Christ, and ΔΌΞΑΙ as a designation of the good angels (Ritschl); (2) the good angels are understood in both expressions (Brückner); (3) ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς is understood in the first explanation, but ΔΌΞΑΙ is explained of the evil angels (Wiesinger); (4) both expressions are understood as a designation of the evil angels (Schott). In order first correctly to determine the idea ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, the relation of Jude 1:8 to what goes before is to be observed. The judgments which have befallen the people (Jude 1:5), the angels (Jude 1:6), and the cities (Jude 1:7), are by Jude adduced as a testimony against the Antinomians (ΟὟΤΟΙ, Jude 1:8) mentioned in Jude 1:4, evidently because these persons are guilty of the same sins on account of which those judgments occurred. Since ΣΆΡΚΑ ΜΙΑΊΝΟΥΣΙ evidently points back to ἘΚΠΟΡΝΕΎΣΑΣΑΙ, Jude 1:7, and further to ἈΣΈΛΓΕΙΑΝ, Jude 1:4, it is most natural to refer ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗΤΑ ἈΘΕΤΟῦΣΙΝ to ΜῊ ΠΙΣΤΕΎΟΝΤΑς, Jude 1:5, and, further, to ΤῸΝ ΜΌΝΟΝ ΔΕΣΠΌΤΗΝ … ἈΡΝΟΎΜΕΝΟΙ, Jude 1:4. Consequently, by ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς—if one takes ΤῸΝ ΜΌΝΟΝ ΔΕΣΠΌΤΗΝ as a designation of God—is to be understood the Godhead; or, if one understands τ. μ. δ. as a predicate to ἸΗΣ. ΧΡ., Christ. If, now, it is assumed that δόξαι is an idea corresponding to ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, and to be taken along with it, then by it the good angels are to be understood. But it must not be overlooked that the clause ΔΌΞΑς ΔῈ ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΟῦΣΙΝ is separated from the preceding clause by ΔΈ; and that Jude 1:9 leads to a different understanding of ΔΌΞΑΙ. When in Jude 1:9 it is said of the archangel Michael that he dared not ΚΡΊΣΙΝ ἘΠΕΝΕΓΚΕῖΝ ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΊΑς against the devil, this βλασφημίας evidently refers back to ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΟῦΣΙΝ, Jude 1:8, consequently the two ideas ΔΌΞΑς and ΔΙΆΒΟΛΟς are brought together, so that from this the preference must be given to the explanation which understands by ΔΌΞΑς the diabolical powers, or the evil angels. That not only δόξαι, but also ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, is a designation of evil powers, Schott incorrectly appeals to the fact that in 2 Peter 2:10, and also here, the unchaste, carnal life of the false teachers is connected with their despising or rejection of ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς; for although it is presupposed that the recognition of the reverence for ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς might restrain these men from the abuse of their fleshly nature, yet it does not follow from this that only evil spirits can be meant, since also the recognition of the reverence for the divine power restrains from the abuse of the corporeal senses which were created by God. To the identification of ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς and ΔΌΞΑΙ—whether good or evil angels are to be understood—not only is the form of the expression opposed, Jude not uniting the two clauses by ΚΑΊ, but, as already remarked, separating them by ΔΈ,[27] but also the difference of the conduct of the Antinomians, whilst they despise (ἀθετοῦσιν; 2 Pet.: καταφρονοῦσιν) the κυριότης, but blaspheme the δόξαι. The clearer this separation and distinction are kept in view, the less reason is there against deriving the exact meaning of δόξαι from Jude 1:9 (2 Peter 2:10 from Jude 1:11), and consequently against understanding by it evil angels (comp. Hofmann); only it must not be affirmed that Jude has used the expression δόξαι as a name for the evil angels as such, but only that, whilst so naming angels generally, he here means the evil angels, as is evident from Jude 1:9. That these may be understood by this designation cannot be denied, especially, as Wiesinger points out, as Paul in Ephesians 6:12 names them αἱ ἀρχαί, αἱ ἐξουσίαι, οἱ κοσμοκράτορες, and says of them that they are ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις.

ἀθετοῦσιν … βλασφημοῦσιν] The first expression is negative, the second positive; the Antinomians manifested the despising of κυριότης by the carnal licentiousness of their lives, whilst they fancied themselves exempt by χάρις (Jude 1:4) from the duty of obedience to the will of God (or Christ) as the κύριος requiring a holy life; but their blasphemy of the δόξαι consisted in this, that on the reproach of having in their immorality fallen under diabolical powers, they mocked at them as entirely impotent beings.

[25] “Those here spoken of are wakeful dreamers, so that they, when they should perceive with their wakeful senses, have only dreams, and what they dream they esteem as the perception of the wakeful spirit.”

[26] Oecumenius, however, wavers, thinking that by κυριότης may also be understood ἡ τοῦ κατὰ Χριστὸν μυστηρίου τελετή, and by δόξαι also ἡ παλαία διαθήκη καὶ ἡ νέα; on 2 Peter 2:10 he observes: δόξας, ἤτοι τὰς θείας φησὶ δυνάμεις, ἢ καὶ τὰς ἐκκλησιαστικὰς ἀρχάς.

[27] Also in 2 Peter 2:10, δόξας οὐ τρέμουσιν βλασφημοῦντες is separated from κυριότητος καταφρονοῦντας by the intervening τολμηταὶ αὐθάδεις.

REMARK.

According to Ritschl’s opinion, the actions which Jude here asserts of the Antinomians represent directly only the guilt of their forerunners (namely, the Israelites, Jude 1:5; the angels, Jude 1:6; and the Sodomites, Jude 1:7), and his expressions can therefore only be understood in an indirect and metaphorical sense. To this conclusion Ritschl arrives (1) by explaining the second clause of Jude 1:10, that the Antinomians understood relations to be understood spiritually φυσικῶς ὡς τὰ ἄλογα ζῶα, i.e. that they considered the blessings promised in the kingdom of heaven as the blessings of sensual enjoyment; (2) by so understanding the relation of Jude 1:8 to the preceding, that δόξας βλασφ. is to be referred back to Jude 1:7, κυριότ. ἀθετ. to Jude 1:6, and σαρκὰ μιαίν. to Jude 1:5. According to his view, Jude finds the guilt of the Sodomites

Greetings, so, are you saying that the JW are correct? .... (smile), lol, oh my. 101G have proven that the JW new world translation is not even worth being called a bible. they don't even know who Jesus the Lord is less alone know who the men of Sodom were. in the JW Bible, it states, in Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." the JW put the name Jehovah in where the Lord God is at in the KJV, so... it was Jehovah that sent his angel to John. ok, just 10 verses latter at Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

one have to be drunk at the wheel to missed that. see how IGNORANT the JW, and there are many and 101G means many more mistakes like this in their bible translation. so the JW are proven liars.

NOW for the JUDE question, "Both expressions are to be understood as a designation of supermundane powers. Almost all recent expositors agree in this, although they differ widely in the more definite statement. These different explanations are as follows:—(1) ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς is taken as a designation of God or Christ, and ΔΌΞΑΙ as a designation of the good angels (Ritschl); (2) the good angels are understood in both expressions (Brückner); (3) ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς is understood in the first explanation, but ΔΌΞΑΙ is explained of the evil angels (Wiesinger); (4) both expressions are understood as a designation of the evil angels (Schott). In order first correctly to determine the idea ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, the relation of Jude 1:8 to what goes before is to be observed. The judgments which have befallen the people (Jude 1:5), the angels (Jude 1:6), and the cities (Jude 1:7), are by Jude adduced as a testimony against the Antinomians (ΟὟΤΟΙ, Jude 1:8) mentioned in Jude 1:4, evidently because these persons are guilty of the same sins on account of which those judgments occurred. Since ΣΆΡΚΑ ΜΙΑΊΝΟΥΣΙ evidently points back to ἘΚΠΟΡΝΕΎΣΑΣΑΙ, Jude 1:7, and further to ἈΣΈΛΓΕΙΑΝ, Jude 1:4, it is most natural to refer ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗΤΑ ἈΘΕΤΟῦΣΙΝ to ΜῊ ΠΙΣΤΕΎΟΝΤΑς, Jude 1:5, and, further, to ΤῸΝ ΜΌΝΟΝ ΔΕΣΠΌΤΗΝ … ἈΡΝΟΎΜΕΝΟΙ, Jude 1:4. Consequently, by ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς—if one takes ΤῸΝ ΜΌΝΟΝ ΔΕΣΠΌΤΗΝ as a designation of God—is to be understood the Godhead; or, if one understands τ. μ. δ. as a predicate to ἸΗΣ. ΧΡ., Christ. If, now, it is assumed that δόξαι is an idea corresponding to ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, and to be taken along with it, then by it the good angels are to be understood. But it must not be overlooked that the clause ΔΌΞΑς ΔῈ ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΟῦΣΙΝ is separated from the preceding clause by ΔΈ; and that Jude 1:9 leads to a different understanding of ΔΌΞΑΙ. When in Jude 1:9 it is said of the archangel Michael that he dared not ΚΡΊΣΙΝ ἘΠΕΝΕΓΚΕῖΝ ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΊΑς against the devil, this βλασφημίας evidently refers back to ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΟῦΣΙΝ, Jude 1:8, consequently the two ideas ΔΌΞΑς and ΔΙΆΒΟΛΟς are brought together, so that from this the preference must be given to the explanation which understands by ΔΌΞΑς the diabolical powers, or the evil angels. That not only δόξαι, but also ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, is a designation of evil powers, Schott incorrectly appeals to the fact that in 2 Peter 2:10, and also here, the unchaste, carnal life of the false teachers is connected with their despising or rejection of ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς; for although it is presupposed that the recognition of the reverence for ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς might restrain these men from the abuse of their fleshly nature, yet it does not follow from this that only evil spirits can be meant, since also the recognition of the reverence for the divine power restrains from the abuse of the corporeal senses which were created by God. To the identification of ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς and ΔΌΞΑΙ—whether good or evil angels are to be understood—not only is the form of the expression opposed, Jude not uniting the two clauses by ΚΑΊ, but, as already remarked, separating them by ΔΈ,[27] but also the difference of the conduct of the Antinomians, whilst they despise (ἀθετοῦσιν; 2 Pet.: καταφρονοῦσιν) the κυριότης, but blaspheme the δόξαι. The clearer this separation and distinction are kept in view, the less reason is there against deriving the exact meaning of δόξαι from Jude 1:9 (2 Peter 2:10 from Jude 1:11), and consequently against understanding by it evil angels (comp. Hofmann); only it must not be affirmed that Jude has used the expression δόξαι as a name for the evil angels as such, but only that, whilst so naming angels generally, he here means the evil angels, as is evident from Jude 1:9. That these may be understood by this designation cannot be denied, especially, as Wiesinger points out, as Paul in Ephesians 6:12 names them αἱ ἀρχαί, αἱ ἐξουσίαι, οἱ κοσμοκράτορες, and says of them that they are ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις."

Jude himself answer this, as said read 101G's post

• #48 just read that post again, for Jude answer it's own-self and no where do it states the men of Sodom homosexuals.

so you have no foot to stand on. try again.

101G.

 

[101G]

Moved this because it got attached to the other reply of mine and posted as one... Sorry


You could be my son. Yes, I am that old. 78 to be exact and what I can tell you of what I have seen in my decades here
is shocking beyond anything.

Who would have ever thought it would ever be proper to not just teach sex to gradeschoolers but to lead them down a road away from their parents into all things trans... and having the kids not tell their parents and themselves lying to the folks. All in the name of perverted abominations

I have no idea where we are headed and I do not want to know.

Yes, time is running out BUT NOT fast enough, for I know it will get worse.

Yes, we all must get to the trenches, while we still can.

In my life, it has only been the past few years that I have noticed a number of people (men) who if not defending the act, at least
will try to say that God never called it an abomination. Of course he did. And one who vehemently did defend it was alright, due to a daughter.

thanks for the reply....... but,
A. 101G is not promoting homosexuality, nor any agenda that man may have.
B. 101G is proving that the men ..... all who was around Lot house was not there for any sex act.
C. 101G is asking why "righteous Lot offered his daughters, (who was married), to homosexuals, that were men?"

101G.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

GINOLJC, to all. also @civic, @Fred
this is what fear, without understanding will do to the masses.
Genesis 19:4-5
4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

no where do the bible say this, " Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.” this is what the new modern translators have added because of the phrase, "TO KNOW" was not to have sex with them. for if it do then the Bible, God, himself have confused us, (God forbid). for the apostle Peter said, 2 Peter 2:7 "And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:" 2 Peter 2:8 "(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds"

now if the bible say Lot was Just and righteous. 101G question, "Was Lot Just or righteous in offering his married daughters to the men of Sodom .... to have sex with them?" . 101G say no, because the bible say, Isaiah 5:20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" so, 101G ask all, was Lot righteous in offering his daughters for sexual desires of the men of Sodom? if so, then we all can throw our bible in the river, for Isaiah 5:20 here above negate that. if we call adultery, or fornication, which is evil .... Good, then we are without hope. for if Lot protect the men from an supposed homosexual act, "TO KNOW THEM", which is evil, as said we need to throw our bibles into the river.

NOW, common sense dictates it had to be for another reason to offer his daughters that ..."KNEW" .... no man, but yet had husbands. so, can anyone answer that question? again, "was it righteous for Lot to offer his married daughters to the men of Sodom for their sexual appeasement?"

101G want to "KNOW" is we approving adultery, or fornication as GOOD?

101G.

Its kinda obvious dude . When they said so we can know them
DARN sure wasnt talking about hand shakes and how do ya do . Man you are blind on this one my friend .
IF all they had wanted to do was greet and meet , TO KNOW ,
why did lott even offer up his own daughters who had KNOWN no man . AGAIN
that known aint about meeting and greeting . Friend you slipped on this one .
OH some things you have said in times past were good , but in this case you are wrong my friend .
For another example you might wanna also read
when the men of belial WITHIN the tribe of benjamin had used the same wording
If the truth be told
it was a generation of TRYSEXUAL , JUST as is this one . IT dont seem to matter
to this generation if its same sex , opposite sex , donkey , whatever .
ITS ALL ABOUT sexual lust dude .
And if you find that hard to believe
allow me a true story . I once worked in this store
and a very hideous creature walked into it . Now notice i said hideous . Cause he wasnt
in the form GOD had made him . SO yeah THAT IS JUST UGLY .
Anyway i seen a man staring at this creature
The man staring was staring at a big ol black man with more muscles than most my friend .
IT had on a wig . I told him sir you do realize that is a man you are looking at .
TO which he replied WHO GIVES A .........................lets not fill in the blank
LOOK at its body he said . This generation pretty much dont give a rip anymore .
LIke i said THE FINAL end time sign upon a nation that its end is near
SEXUAL PERVERSION is rampant . JUST LIKE IT IS TODAY fellow .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Its kinda obvious dude . When they said so we can know them
DARN sure wasnt talking about hand shakes and how do ya do . Man you are blind on this one my friend .
IF all they had wanted to do was greet and meet , TO KNOW ,
why did lott even offer up his own daughters who had KNOWN no man . AGAIN
that known aint about meeting and greeting . Friend you slipped on this one .
OH some things you have said in times past were good , but in this case you are wrong my friend .
For another example you might wanna also read
when the men of belial WITHIN the tribe of benjamin had used the same wording
If the truth be told
it was a generation of TRYSEXUAL , JUST as is this one . IT dont seem to matter
to this generation if its same sex , opposite sex , donkey , whatever .
ITS ALL ABOUT sexual lust dude .
And if you find that hard to believe
allow me a true story . I once worked in this store
and a very hideous creature walked into it . Now notice i said hideous . Cause he wasnt
in the form GOD had made him . SO yeah THAT IS JUST UGLY .
Anyway i seen a man staring at this creature
The man staring was staring at a big ol black man with more muscles than most my friend .
IT had on a wig . I told him sir you do realize that is a man you are looking at .
TO which he replied WHO GIVES A .........................lets not fill in the blank
LOOK at its body he said . This generation pretty much dont give a rip anymore .
LIke i said THE FINAL end time sign upon a nation that its end is near
SEXUAL PERVERSION is rampant . JUST LIKE IT IS TODAY fellow .

@Tothalordbeallglory
And then the end will come.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Moved this because it got attached to the other reply of mine and posted as one... Sorry


You could be my son. Yes, I am that old. 78 to be exact and what I can tell you of what I have seen in my decades here
is shocking beyond anything.

Who would have ever thought it would ever be proper to not just teach sex to gradeschoolers but to lead them down a road away from their parents into all things trans... and having the kids not tell their parents and themselves lying to the folks. All in the name of perverted abominations

I have no idea where we are headed and I do not want to know.

Yes, time is running out BUT NOT fast enough, for I know it will get worse.

Yes, we all must get to the trenches, while we still can.

In my life, it has only been the past few years that I have noticed a number of people (men) who if not defending the act, at least
will try to say that God never called it an abomination. Of course he did. And one who vehemently did defend it was alright, due to a daughter.

You are correct my near and my dear sister . ON all of it .
And the last part where you said Its only been the past few years .
ITS SPED UP sister . wanna know why . WHEN leaven is left uncorrected
and time goes on and on and on , THINGS get worse and
as time goes on more and more is TRUTH pushed out and EVIL FILLS THE VOID
and IT SPEEDS UP TOO .
cause anytime one like me or any sheep tries to correct
its the victim card , the judge not correct not card , the YOU AN OPPRESSOR and hater card .
The churches have ZERO idea who they made their bed with sister . AND
its only GONNA KEEP speeding up . oh the end is coming sister .
And while i sorrow for this church generation
who has obviously been lulled right into a lie
and though i do what i can by grace to expose the lie and lies
ONE THING i have ALL HOPE IN , though tears even flow from my eyes for this people ,
THANK GOD FOR ALL HE HAS DONE , SAVED and CHANGED US
and WHAT A WONDERFUL Home awaits the sheep at our end . On that note
i say EVEN SO COME LORD JESUS .
AND it darn sure aint cause i desire the death of the wicked
ITS CAUSE I AM SO ready to forever BE WITH THE LORD , HOME
IN a place where NO more evil is
AND ONLYGOD is glorifed as we sing ALL DAY to HE WHO Saved us , kept us .
This world and worse most churches bring me naught but heaviness , sadness , tears
and yet righteous anger too . But i dont desire their death , I am just so
tired of what CHURCHES go with the flow of the wicked . BUT till that DAY sister
THE SHEEP march on IN CHRIST no matter what come against us . PARADISE cometh
And AGAIN thank GOD , THANK CHRIST , cause we darn sure didnt EARN or DESERVE IT .
HE DID all that was necessary . IT only breaks my heart most churches HAVE SOLD HIM OUT
for a sin loving and accepting god , WHO IS NOT GOD .

 

[Marvelloustime]

You are correct my near and my dear sister . ON all of it .
And the last part where you said Its only been the past few years .
ITS SPED UP sister . wanna know why . WHEN leaven is left uncorrected
and time goes on and on and on , THINGS get worse and
as time goes on more and more is TRUTH pushed out and EVIL FILLS THE VOID
and IT SPEEDS UP TOO .
cause anytime one like me or any sheep tries to correct
its the victim card , the judge not correct not card , the YOU AN OPPRESSOR and hater card .
The churches have ZERO idea who they made their bed with sister . AND
its only GONNA KEEP speeding up . oh the end is coming sister .
And while i sorrow for this church generation
who has obviously been lulled right into a lie
and though i do what i can by grace to expose the lie and lies
ONE THING i have ALL HOPE IN , though tears even flow from my eyes for this people ,
THANK GOD FOR ALL HE HAS DONE , SAVED and CHANGED US
and WHAT A WONDERFUL Home awaits the sheep at our end . On that note
i say EVEN SO COME LORD JESUS .
AND it darn sure aint cause i desire the death of the wicked
ITS CAUSE I AM SO ready to forever BE WITH THE LORD , HOME
IN a place where NO more evil is
AND ONLYGOD is glorifed as we sing ALL DAY to HE WHO Saved us , kept us .
This world and worse most churches bring me naught but heaviness , sadness , tears
and yet righteous anger too . But i dont desire their death , I am just so
tired of what CHURCHES go with the flow of the wicked . BUT till that DAY sister
THE SHEEP march on IN CHRIST no matter what come against us . PARADISE cometh
And AGAIN thank GOD , THANK CHRIST , cause we darn sure didnt EARN or DESERVE IT .
HE DID all that was necessary . IT only breaks my heart most churches HAVE SOLD HIM OUT
for a sin loving and accepting god , WHO IS NOT GOD .

@Tothalordbeallglory @MTMattie

“He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. THE END”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭20‬-‭21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[101G]

IT only breaks my heart most churches HAVE SOLD HIM OUT
for a sin loving and accepting god , WHO IS NOT GOD .

Correct, this is why God brought us into the world at this time...... to tell the people the truth, .... Give LIGHT. 1 John 2:6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

101G.

 

[MTMattie]

Greetings, so, are you saying that the JW are correct?

Can you read. The very book that calls the Word a god is right on this one. Even a blind hog and so forth

.... (smile), lol, oh my. 101G have proven that the JW new world translation is not even worth being called a bible. they don't even know who Jesus the Lord is less alone know who the men of Sodom were. in the JW Bible, it states, in Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." the JW put the name Jehovah in where the Lord God is at in the KJV, so... it was Jehovah that sent his angel to John. ok, just 10 verses latter at Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

one have to be drunk at the wheel to missed that. see how IGNORANT the JW, and there are many and 101G means many more mistakes like this in their bible translation. so the JW are proven liars.

NOW for the JUDE question, "Both expressions are to be understood as a designation of supermundane powers. Almost all recent expositors agree in this, although they differ widely in the more definite statement. These different explanations are as follows:—(1) ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς is taken as a designation of God or Christ, and ΔΌΞΑΙ as a designation of the good angels (Ritschl); (2) the good angels are understood in both expressions (Brückner); (3) ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς is understood in the first explanation, but ΔΌΞΑΙ is explained of the evil angels (Wiesinger); (4) both expressions are understood as a designation of the evil angels (Schott). In order first correctly to determine the idea ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, the relation of Jude 1:8 to what goes before is to be observed. The judgments which have befallen the people (Jude 1:5), the angels (Jude 1:6), and the cities (Jude 1:7), are by Jude adduced as a testimony against the Antinomians (ΟὟΤΟΙ, Jude 1:8) mentioned in Jude 1:4, evidently because these persons are guilty of the same sins on account of which those judgments occurred. Since ΣΆΡΚΑ ΜΙΑΊΝΟΥΣΙ evidently points back to ἘΚΠΟΡΝΕΎΣΑΣΑΙ, Jude 1:7, and further to ἈΣΈΛΓΕΙΑΝ, Jude 1:4, it is most natural to refer ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗΤΑ ἈΘΕΤΟῦΣΙΝ to ΜῊ ΠΙΣΤΕΎΟΝΤΑς, Jude 1:5, and, further, to ΤῸΝ ΜΌΝΟΝ ΔΕΣΠΌΤΗΝ … ἈΡΝΟΎΜΕΝΟΙ, Jude 1:4. Consequently, by ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς—if one takes ΤῸΝ ΜΌΝΟΝ ΔΕΣΠΌΤΗΝ as a designation of God—is to be understood the Godhead; or, if one understands τ. μ. δ. as a predicate to ἸΗΣ. ΧΡ., Christ. If, now, it is assumed that δόξαι is an idea corresponding to ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, and to be taken along with it, then by it the good angels are to be understood. But it must not be overlooked that the clause ΔΌΞΑς ΔῈ ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΟῦΣΙΝ is separated from the preceding clause by ΔΈ; and that Jude 1:9 leads to a different understanding of ΔΌΞΑΙ. When in Jude 1:9 it is said of the archangel Michael that he dared not ΚΡΊΣΙΝ ἘΠΕΝΕΓΚΕῖΝ ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΊΑς against the devil, this βλασφημίας evidently refers back to ΒΛΑΣΦΗΜΟῦΣΙΝ, Jude 1:8, consequently the two ideas ΔΌΞΑς and ΔΙΆΒΟΛΟς are brought together, so that from this the preference must be given to the explanation which understands by ΔΌΞΑς the diabolical powers, or the evil angels. That not only δόξαι, but also ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς, is a designation of evil powers, Schott incorrectly appeals to the fact that in 2 Peter 2:10, and also here, the unchaste, carnal life of the false teachers is connected with their despising or rejection of ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς; for although it is presupposed that the recognition of the reverence for ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς might restrain these men from the abuse of their fleshly nature, yet it does not follow from this that only evil spirits can be meant, since also the recognition of the reverence for the divine power restrains from the abuse of the corporeal senses which were created by God. To the identification of ΚΥΡΙΌΤΗς and ΔΌΞΑΙ—whether good or evil angels are to be understood—not only is the form of the expression opposed, Jude not uniting the two clauses by ΚΑΊ, but, as already remarked, separating them by ΔΈ,[27] but also the difference of the conduct of the Antinomians, whilst they despise (ἀθετοῦσιν; 2 Pet.: καταφρονοῦσιν) the κυριότης, but blaspheme the δόξαι. The clearer this separation and distinction are kept in view, the less reason is there against deriving the exact meaning of δόξαι from Jude 1:9 (2 Peter 2:10 from Jude 1:11), and consequently against understanding by it evil angels (comp. Hofmann); only it must not be affirmed that Jude has used the expression δόξαι as a name for the evil angels as such, but only that, whilst so naming angels generally, he here means the evil angels, as is evident from Jude 1:9. That these may be understood by this designation cannot be denied, especially, as Wiesinger points out, as Paul in Ephesians 6:12 names them αἱ ἀρχαί, αἱ ἐξουσίαι, οἱ κοσμοκράτορες, and says of them that they are ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις."

Jude himself answer this, as said read 101G's post

• #48 just read that post again, for Jude answer it's own-self and no where do it states the men of Sodom homosexuals.

so you have no foot to stand on. try again.

101G.

 

[101G]

Can you read. The very book that calls the Word a god is right on this one. Even a blind hog and so forth

SORRY THERE 101G WAS BUSY.

you got to be kidding, listen and learn. Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

now, read the NWT on that same verse.

101G.

 

[101G]

@Fred
Genesis 19:8 "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof."
now what was that? "do ye to them as is good in your eyes"

now, what was Sodom destruction all about... Ezekiel 16:49 "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy." Ezekiel 16:50 "And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."

as is good in your eyes:

as I saw good

101G.

 

[MTMattie]

SORRY THERE 101G WAS BUSY.

you got to be kidding, listen and learn. Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

now, read the NWT on that same verse.

101G.

No... and the reason I will not it it is a screwed up translation... I only went there to check what they were saying on the
subject and I quoted it directly to you

I am so anti JW... along with a great many more... but every now and again something gets said correctly.

But... out of curiosity, Changing my mind.... here it is for others to read

See now that I—I am he, And there are no gods apart from me. I put to death, and I make alive. I wound, and I will heal,
And no one can rescue from my hand.

Happy?

 

[101G]

just as was with Lot, (the men who surround his house), the Pride, lust of the flesh, ect… is the Good example of the "WORLD". and what did Lot do? PARYED FOR THEM, Genesis 19:6 "And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him," Genesis 19:7 "And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly." .what did the Lord do for us? HE PRAYED FOR US. John 17:9 "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." John 17:10 "And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them." John 17:11 "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:13 "And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves." John 17:14 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." John 17:15 "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."

101G.

 

[101G]

No... and the reason I will not it it is a screwed up translation... I only went there to check what they were saying on the
subject and I quoted it directly to you

I am so anti JW... along with a great many more... but every now and again something gets said correctly.

But... out of curiosity, Changing my mind.... here it is for others to read

See now that I—I am he, And there are no gods apart from me. I put to death, and I make alive. I wound, and I will heal,
And no one can rescue from my hand.

Happy?

agreed, there is no god apart or "WITH" him.

101G

 

[Fred]

agreed, there is no god apart or "WITH" him.

101G

Correct.
There is only 1 Triune God.

 

[101G]

Correct.
There is only 1 Triune God.

LOL, LISTEN and LEARN, 1 John 2:20 "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things."
1 John 2:21 "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth."

1 John 2:22 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."

1 John 2:23 "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."

1 John 2:24 "Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."

Son and Father? ........ where is the Holy /spirit? answer, he the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son.... "Diversified", or the EQUAL SHARE, the ECHAD...... (smile)... YIKES! .... NO TRINITY.

101G.

 

[Fred]

LOL, LISTEN and LEARN,

I will do neither when you can't even figure out what plural pronouns mean.