Exactly. Since Jesus and the Father are one, this does not prevent anyone from worshiping the Son too. Once in a while the unitarian stumbles on something with some truth to it.
Trinitarian Training
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Runningman
Active Member
And the disciples/believers are also one with God in the same way Jesus is according to John 17. Another one of your theories is contradicted by Scripture, but I am sure that won't stop you.
John 17
20I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—
1 Corinthians 6
17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit.
Oh. Again you want to make all of them to be gods on par with the Father.
The topic was about worship of God and that since Jesus is God the worship of Jesus is correct to do -- rather than excluding it. So your argument that Jesus is not God failed. So you changed the topic to distract from that finding.
e v e
Active Member
the nature of this earth and sky lacks God's signature, is a foreign land.
His nature is intrinsic to His creation , which bears His signature, which was eden and its atmosphere in the other reality.
He , His Spirit , and His Son are of God's nature in their deity, thats the trinity. three gorgeous beings of His nature.
And all He does and all He created is Good and conforms to His nature ... which is life.
He did not create bodies that get cancer, illness, pain, death, toil since that is impossible based on His intrinsic Nature.
The evil tree is a land, a foreign signatureless ugly land whose fruit is death... of which God warned adam. God was Good to warn adam not to eat of it, not to enter death. But he did. And that is the evil reality and nature where we have been imprisoned ever since after the fall - this earth and sky that prophets say will be desolated.
Runningman
Active Member
Being one with God doesn't make someone God, in accordance with Jesus isn't God. The criteria you use to turn Jesus into God is contradicted by the Bible because it applies to others. Try another one of your other tricks and I guarantee I'll find where the Bible contradicts it.
e v e
Active Member
it's not polytheism to know He, His Spirit our mother, and His son are our Actual Real family, and that Christ and His spirit are deity, and that they three share His nature, and yet to know He is God... nor is adoring All that is His bad. I love and adore every eden soul and that's fine.
but yes using the language esau trained christians to use it 'looks' like polytheism through those tinted glasses. We were worn down to believe we were fallen matrix animals, creatures. This and other beliefs are the result of centuries by esau's bullying and punishment.
His son and His Spirit are His hands, as Irenaeus put it very pretty... and who can separate hands from the being of Him? no one.
the complication was that His sons and daughters which so gorgeous 'stepped right out of' His spirit, when He spoke her, and who were the sons made in His image and daughters in the image of His spirit... well they followed adam after he betrayed God.
the fall stole actual sons and daughters not creatures. we never were that. and for a reason the satan realm attacked eden, for the sons had been given gifts, treasures by God. And these the evil realm stole once eden was breached.
and through that means this mimic reality we are now in, death, continues. The promised land of the bible was a foreshadowing of us returning to eden, our home. God has no reason to 'react' to satan with some new earth.. but the sons will rebuild and make eden new again when the stolen treasures are returned to Him.
For in a big sense we Souls who are of Him, are His treasures and will return to Him and eden will be pretty again... eden once we were no longer there was mutilated - since we were its core.
As for this earth and its history and heathen civilization it will be fit for rats and moles, the 'nations' - cough - can have it... for as per prophets it will be desolated. nations as a term never refers to God's souls, who are His tribes.
His souls will never remember this earth again, a bad episode it was... and we will live soon, again, in our eden paradise with God.
His divine command was spoken. He created eden and its atmosphere. What He spoke will be restored to exactly His words and His creation.
e v e
Active Member
also, the pagans are actually quite monotheistic with their false one. if you could read hieroglyphs and vedic texts, many 'gods' used as proof of polytheism are constructs and or regions. but no one knows that anymore or cares to know. hathor is a region for example, as is ra. there is no goddess called hathor and this can quickly be determined in the glyphs. the ancient heathen believing 'nations' had a very entrenched monotheism, and plato himself explains it all in bits and pieces through out his texts. For christians (hebrew souls) at the time of moses and also now What's important is the first commandment and to listen to God's Words, to listen only to Him and not to follow the corrupt scroll/sealed vision (Daniel) which is listening to satan, just as adam did, which hurt us all very much.
Runningman
Active Member
Do you believe the snake in the garden was the first sinner on Earth? He told a lie to deceive Eve prior to her and Adam disobeying God's commands. Really puts a different spin on things when that part is realized.
e v e
Active Member
no. i do not.
the entity belonged to the saturnian realm in the other reality, attacking eden. not part of God's creation (in the way you intended to say.) the sin realm was the saturnian egypt realm...
eden was never on this earth.
adam's responsibility was to cover and protect eve. he did not do so. eve received no command from God.
we are now on this dreadful earth (sin realm) not made by God.
e v e
Active Member
the term deity and God are not synonyms nor on par. deity is a nature, like human or deer or eagle. God created by His own type of nature. All He made had His Signature. there are no examples here on earth of this as we are far from Home... it's a foreign land, not His. We are just used to living in this 'sin realm' all these thousands of years where nature is signatureless and devoid of Him and therefore we are blind... no longer understanding anything outside the feeble five senses nor how poor this place is compared to His paradise. The only thing here of God is souls that came from Him.
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Runningman
Active Member
I think I get what you're saying. You don't believe God is an actual person, but rather is a nature. Why you don't believe God made the earth (even though Genesis 1 says God made the earth) is because you believe the earth is a "sin real" [sic]. Then how about heaven? Is heaven a sin realm too? Because the Bible says there were a rebellion, basically a mutiny, in heaven.
So, some places where Jesus is one with the Father is, in your opinion, sufficient to deny where Jesus is God? That is ludicrous. But also your reversal of ideas actually fails because Jesus's oneness with the Father occurs because Jesus is God. So that is how your weird twisting of scripture means you actually are claiming all these disciples are gods. That is the logic that happens.
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Anno 2025 science believes more than 100 billion people lived on the planet.
I think you agree that Jesus as only human (from the 100 billion) was without sin.
How can that be?
Rhetoric question actually.
Runningman
Active Member
Your premise is flawed. You said Jesus is one with God and that makes him God. Others are one with God without being God. Means your premise is false. That's the point.
You still fail to put the pieces together. Jesus is God and that makes him one with God. John 1:1 and 18.
John 1:18 (ESV)
18No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
The discussions with you keep involving your forgetfulness of all that has been said before. It is where one clear identification of the divinity of Christ is shared one place but you forget it when on a different thread. So I have to remind you of the earlier discussion.
So for this instance, I am not saying this oneness is the obvious reference to Jesus as God but only is reflective of it. That idea should be obvious enough
Runningman
Active Member
So you believe Adam was born a sinner? How about others?
Runningman
Active Member
You're being lectured, that's the only thing that I see happening in any reply to you. John 1:14 says Jesus was created. Don't forget that part.
John 1:14 (ESV)
14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
you really miss the obvious. Of course Jesus came in the flesh. That was the purpose of incarnation. duh.
You take the obvious verse of his ultimate divinity of being God and you try to use that passage to reject what was just shared about the Word. I'm not sure how you can miss so many details and still argue for the unitarian idea. I think you are running out of ideas to argue since everything else has failed to support your view.
The question was, how can it be that Jesus was the only one (out of 100+ billion humans) without sin?
It's a kind of question that only has one good answer.
