Matthias
Well-known member
It reveals that I asked you about the readers who lived prior to 1611.
Those who deny the Lord Jesus is God (=YHWH) are not saved (2 Corinthians 11:4)
- Thread starter Fred
- Start date
It reveals that I asked you about the readers who lived prior to 1611.
Matthias
Well-known member
Why didn’t you answer my question about whether or not you have read what I posted about autos being translated “he, she, or it”?
The scope of our conversation has always been John 1:1-2. If you cannot tell me the connection between Shakspeare and John 1:1-2 then your case has just been tossed out.
What Bible versions before the Geneva Bible are you referring to? I'm just asking for curiosity's sake. It won't make any difference to me.
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civic
Well-known member
Context determines if the translation of outos should be he, she, it or the same. In this case the obvious word would be He not it. The Word is a person not an it. The Word was God- God is a Person not an it. The Word became man- a Person not an it.
Basics 101.
hope this helps !!!
Matthias
Well-known member
I told you that I answered your question to the best of my ability. What I know is that Shakespeare used the Geneva Bible in his writings. I don’t know whether he ever quoted John’s prologue in his writings or not. Do you know if he did or he didn’t?
Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable about Shakespeare can answer your question about which passages of scripture he quoted.
You said that you were willing to explore the matter. I don’t know what you’ve done in your exploration but this would be something that you could look into. I may do it myself.
All translations from Greek to English.
That runs counter to your assertion that you are willing to explore.
Matthias
Well-known member
Excellent!
This is where the trinitarian translators like Tyndale disagree with you.
civic
Well-known member
Yes its where they are wrong. Very few of them disagree with me.
These all agree with me HIM, not it
New International Version
He was with God in the beginning.
New Living Translation
He existed in the beginning with God.
English Standard Version
He was in the beginning with God.
Berean Standard Bible
He was with God in the beginning.
Berean Literal Bible
He was in the beginning with God.
New King James Version
He was in the beginning with God.
New American Standard Bible
He was in the beginning with God.
NASB 1995
He was in the beginning with God.
NASB 1977
He was in the beginning with God.
Legacy Standard Bible
He was in the beginning with God.
Amplified Bible
He was [continually existing] in the beginning [co-eternally] with God.
Christian Standard Bible
He was with God in the beginning.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
He was with God in the beginning.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
This One himself was at the origin with God.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
He was already with God in the beginning.
International Standard Version
He existed in the beginning with God.
Literal Standard Version
this One was in the beginning with God;
Majority Standard Bible
He was with God in the beginning.
New American Bible
He was in the beginning with God.
NET Bible
The Word was with God in the beginning.
New Revised Standard Version
He was in the beginning with God.
New Heart English Bible
He was in the beginning with God.
Weymouth New Testament
He was in the beginning with God.
Young's Literal Translation
this one was in the beginning with God;
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
This One himself was at the origin with God.
Literal Emphasis Translation
He was in the beginning with God.
I didn't say that I would explore what you wrote about Shakespeare. I'm not going to chase each and every thought that comes into your mind. It's up to you to research and support your assertions. Don't expect others to do that for you.
...before the Geneva Bible which were what?
We're not your research errand boy for each thought that comes into your mind.
Matthias
Well-known member
That’s because the translators are reading their belief into the text.
Tymdale didn’t read his belief, the same belief that all trinitarians have, into the text.
He (and the other translators) saw that John was reflecting in the prologue on God expressing himself in the Genesis creation.
Isaiah 55:11 -> Genesis 1
civic
Well-known member
No all of them are Greek and Hebrew experts/theologians,grammarians etc....
So the consensus is on my side unlike who you are hanging your argument upon- a solitary man named tyndale.
Matthias
Well-known member
The Geneva Bible is the Bible that Shakespeare used. Shakespeare wasn’t a grammar illiterate and neither was Tyndale and the other trinitarians who translated the prologue in the same or similar manner that he did.
I gave you an avenue. You made it crystal clear that your mind is closed.
I’ve been quoting them for you.
If you don’t know what English Bibles were published prior to the Geneva Bible then you haven’t done your homework. You’re relying on me to do your homework for you.
Matthias
Well-known member
Tyndale was an expert on Greek grammar. So were the other trinitarian scholars who translated the prologue in the same or similar way that he did.
I’m not hanging my argument upon a solitary man. There are many trinitarian translators who did what Tyndale did.
APAK
Active member
They are doing 'the shake down' with you I see. To no avail....I predict this with a recurring theme and activity, and it will not benefit anyone with those of closed minds.
I picked up a few of the 'it' translations and the Geneva undated version.
(Joh 1:1) In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God.
(Joh 1:2) The same was in the begynnyng with God.
(Joh 1:3) All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made.
(Joh 1:4) In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,
(Bishops)
(Joh 1:1) In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.
(Joh 1:2) This same was in the beginning with God.
(Joh 1:3) All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.
(Joh 1:4) In it was life, and that life was the light of men.
(Geneva - of the 1599 version)
(Joh 1:1) In the beginning was that word, and that word was with God, and what God was, the word was.
(Joh 1:2) This same was in the beginning with God.
(Joh 1:3) All things were made through it, and without it was made not anything made that has been made.
(Joh 1:4) In it was life and the life was the light of mankind.
(REV - 1st edition 2014)
My favorite is the last one, REV, although I could slightly improve upon it.
civic
Well-known member
John 1:3- notice through HIM, not it
Its Unanimously in my favor not yours. But that is your choice to turn a blind eye to the Word the truth is He, not it.
New International Version
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
New Living Translation
God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.
English Standard Version
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Berean Standard Bible
Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
Berean Literal Bible
All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
King James Bible
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
New King James Version
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
New American Standard Bible
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
NASB 1995
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
NASB 1977
All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Legacy Standard Bible
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Amplified Bible
All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him not even one thing was made that has come into being.
Christian Standard Bible
All things were created through him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.
American Standard Version
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Everything was in his hand, and without him not even one thing existed of the things that existed.
Contemporary English Version
And with this Word, God created all things. Nothing was made without the Word. Everything that was created
Douay-Rheims Bible
All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
English Revised Version
All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Everything came into existence through him. Not one thing that exists was made without him.
Good News Translation
Through him God made all things; not one thing in all creation was made without him.
International Standard Version
Through him all things were made, and apart from him nothing was made that has been made.
Literal Standard Version
all things happened through Him, and without Him not even one thing happened that has happened.
Majority Standard Bible
Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
New American Bible
All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
NET Bible
All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.
New Revised Standard Version
All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being
New Heart English Bible
All things were made through him, and apart from him nothing was made that has been made.
Webster's Bible Translation
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Weymouth New Testament
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing that exists came into being.
World English Bible
All things were made through him. Without him, nothing was made that has been made.
Young's Literal Translation
all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Everything was in his hand, and without him not even one thing existed of the things that existed.
Lamsa Bible
Everything came to be by his hand; and without him not even one thing came to be of what was created.
Anderson New Testament
All things were made by him, and without him not one thing was made that now exists.
Godbey New Testament
All things were made by Him, and without Him nothing was made, that has been made.
Haweis New Testament
All things were made by him; and without him was not one thing made that was made.
Mace New Testament
all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made.
Weymouth New Testament
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing that exists came into being.
Worrell New Testament
All things were made through Him, and apart from Him was not even one thing made that has been made.
Worsley New Testament
By Him were all things made, and without Him was not any one thing made that was made.
Its Unanimously in my favor not yours. But that is your choice to turn a blind eye to the Word the truth is He, not it.
New International Version
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
New Living Translation
God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.
English Standard Version
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Berean Standard Bible
Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
Berean Literal Bible
All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
King James Bible
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
New King James Version
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
New American Standard Bible
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
NASB 1995
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
NASB 1977
All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Legacy Standard Bible
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Amplified Bible
All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him not even one thing was made that has come into being.
Christian Standard Bible
All things were created through him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.
American Standard Version
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Everything was in his hand, and without him not even one thing existed of the things that existed.
Contemporary English Version
And with this Word, God created all things. Nothing was made without the Word. Everything that was created
Douay-Rheims Bible
All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
English Revised Version
All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Everything came into existence through him. Not one thing that exists was made without him.
Good News Translation
Through him God made all things; not one thing in all creation was made without him.
International Standard Version
Through him all things were made, and apart from him nothing was made that has been made.
Literal Standard Version
all things happened through Him, and without Him not even one thing happened that has happened.
Majority Standard Bible
Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
New American Bible
All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
NET Bible
All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.
New Revised Standard Version
All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being
New Heart English Bible
All things were made through him, and apart from him nothing was made that has been made.
Webster's Bible Translation
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Weymouth New Testament
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing that exists came into being.
World English Bible
All things were made through him. Without him, nothing was made that has been made.
Young's Literal Translation
all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Everything was in his hand, and without him not even one thing existed of the things that existed.
Lamsa Bible
Everything came to be by his hand; and without him not even one thing came to be of what was created.
Anderson New Testament
All things were made by him, and without him not one thing was made that now exists.
Godbey New Testament
All things were made by Him, and without Him nothing was made, that has been made.
Haweis New Testament
All things were made by him; and without him was not one thing made that was made.
Mace New Testament
all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made.
Weymouth New Testament
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing that exists came into being.
Worrell New Testament
All things were made through Him, and apart from Him was not even one thing made that has been made.
Worsley New Testament
By Him were all things made, and without Him was not any one thing made that was made.
Matthias
Well-known member
I’ve been having this conversation with trinitarians for three decades. None of those trinitarians did to Tyndale (and the other trinitarian translators) what these trinitarians have done to them.
I mentioned this to a trinitarian pastor and he just shook his head and told me I was wasting my time talking with these people. He had no issue with the Geneva Bible and had nothing but high praise for Tyndale.
Matthias
Well-known member
You need to find yourself a trinitarian pastor who understands that Tyndale and others weren’t calling God an “it” in their translations.
civic
Well-known member
no you ned to understand the truth that the Word ( Jesus who is God ) is not an it but a who, he ,him ie a PERSON and not a thing.
Matthias
Well-known member
There are more than that.
See modern translations which translate the prologue in the same or similar way that those learned men whom you dismiss and reject did.
Matthias
Well-known member
Not even one of the trinitarian translators understood God to be an “it”.
