brightfame52
Active Member
He gives repentance, that means He causes it. Its all of grace frien
Things that accompany Christ
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
Active Member
synergy
Active Member
It’s NOT my responsibility to tell everyone how all those Book of Hebrews verses could possibly align themselves with your Calvinist heresies! It’s YOUR responsibility to do that! The fact that you’re running away from all those verses proves that those verses could not possibly align themselves with your Calvinist heresies. Thank you for proving that to everyone.
I’ll give you another chance. Tell us how all the highlighted Book of Hebrews verses could possibly align themselves with your Calvinist heresies. Hop to it.
Heb 8:12 is pointing to believers who possess a covenant relationship that must be entered and lived in by faith (6:12,11:6). Although the Son has decisively “made purification for sins” (1:3), the readers are warned that they must “pay much closer attention” lest they drift from the salvation proclaimed (2:1–3), because the gospel only benefits those who hear it when it is “united with faith” (4:2). Hebrews grounds this warning in Israel’s own covenant history, explaining that those who failed to enter God’s rest did so because of unbelief—“they were unable to enter because of unbelief” (3:18–19). The point is clear within Hebrews’ own argument: the new covenant of 8:8–10 is objectively established by Christ, but its blessings—including “their sins I will remember no more”—are covenantally possessed by those who respond in persevering faith, which Hebrews treats as an essential, not optional, component of belonging to that covenant people.
brightfame52
Active Member
It aint mine. So let it go. You wasting time and space.
synergy
Active Member
If you cannot even attempt to reconcile your system with the entire Book of Hebrews, then you are not here to seek truth, but to propagate error—and in doing so, you are wasting the time of everyone involved. The fact that you’re running away from all those verses proves that Calvinist heresies are in fact indefensible and that's all I needed to know.
brightfame52
Active Member
I dont need to do a book study of hebrews for you to highlight one point found in Heb 1:3.. Get a grip
Hebrews 1:3 says what it says, Jesus after purging our sins sat down at the right hand of God, its finished, Those whose sins are purged away are guilt free of all sin.
Sin purged is a Salvation blessing as well Ps 79:9
Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name’s sake.
Jesus has done that for the elect
No, 'gives repentence' doesn't mean God unilaterally causes them to repent.
“Give” in scripture does not automatically imply participation. ...
In 1 Kings 3:21, the mother intended to *give* her child suck, but the child wouldn't suck.
1 Kings 3:21 And when I rose in the morning
**to give my child suck**,
behold, it was dead: but when I had considered it in the morning, behold, it was not my son, which I did bear.
But even if the child was alive there was no guarantee. It might have been full or sick and refused.
Thus in Acts 5:31, give does automatically imply repentance or forgiveness. The person could still resist the Holy Spirit.
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
The decision is libertarian.
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synergy
Active Member
Psalm 79:9 is itself an act of faith that shows faith is required for sins to be purged because the Psalmist does not state that atonement happens automatically or apart from response; instead, he appeals to God—“Help us, O God of our salvation… deliver us, and atone for our sins”—which is an explicit act of faith, trust, and dependence on God alone for forgiveness, and this appeal is grounded “for your name’s sake,” demonstrating confidence in God’s character and covenant mercy. In Scripture, such calling upon God for help and forgiveness is the functional expression of faith, meaning that in Psalm 79:9, atonement (purging of sins) is requested and received only through a faithful turning to God.
Keep those Calvinism-slaying Bible verses coming! You're doing a great job. Keep it up.
He never irresistibly causes people to repent. He encourages, commands repentance but it is still ultimately up to the person.
Read and believe scripture
2 Chronicles 6:24 (LEB) — 24 “And if your people Israel are defeated before an enemy because they have sinned against you and they repent and confess your name and pray and plead before you in this house,
2 Chronicles 6:37 (LEB) — 37 but if they repent in the land where they were taken captive and repent and beg you for mercy in the land of their captivity, saying, ‘We have sinned and acted perversely and done wickedly,
Ezekiel 18:30 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.
Ezekiel 18:32 (LEB) — 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”
Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”
Matthew 3:2 (LEB) — 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near!”
Matthew 4:17 (LEB) — 17 From that time on, Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, because the kingdom of heaven is near.”
Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Matthew 12:41 (LEB) — 41 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
Mark 1:15 (LEB) — 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”
Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
Nope, he does not irresistibly cause men to repent
(2 Tim. 2:25) Can we repent or does God cause us to repent?
CLAIM: Paul writes that “God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Tim. 2:25). Some interpreters argue that we cannot repent, unless God grants this to us (c.f. Acts 5:31). Does this eliminate the importance of freewill in regard to repentance? In other words, are we responsible for repentance or is God?
RESPONSE: God gives us the opportunity to repent, but we still decide to repent. There are a number of reasons why this is the case:
First, Jesus, Peter, and Paul all call on fallen people to repent. Jesus called for repentance (Mk. 1:15). So did Peter (Acts 3:19). So did Paul (Acts 17:30). These calls for repentance would be an illusion if repentance is actually a gift. In other words, why would God call on us to repent, if this is actually impossible to do? Calvinistic interpreters often counter that God often asks humans to do the impossible, knowing that we cannot do it (Mt. 5:48; Mk. 12:30). However, these calls for perfection are analogous. God’s calls for perfection are the standard that God righteously requires (c.f. Rom. 2:7). Therefore, by appealing to these verses, we are really comparing apples with oranges.
Second, God granted repentance to a group, rather than an individual. We need to be careful not to read the Bible as referring to me, when it is actually referring to we. This corporate language doesn’t fit with the idea that God forced us as individuals to repent and receive him. Instead, Paul is effectually saying that God is breaking into new groups of people. For instance, in Acts 11:18, we read, “God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” Here, the focus is specifically on the Gentiles. However, when God grants repentance to the Gentiles, it is clear that he is not saving every Gentile! Instead, he is simply saying that God is reaching new groups of people. For this reason, we shouldn’t read something into these passages that isn’t there.
Third, being granted repentance refers to an opportunity –not an action. In one sense, being granted repentance is God’s offer (i.e. opportunity). While in another sense, being granted repentance is our decision (i.e. action). Similarly, Paul viewed suffering as being “granted for Christ’s sake” (Phil. 1:29). Of course, when God grants us to suffer, he is not forcing us to suffer. Instead, he simply gives us the opportunity to suffer for the cause of Christ. In a similar way, consider the word “surrender.” This can be used in two complimentary ways: both as an opportunity and an action. Likewise, when God grants us repentance, he is giving us the opportunity to repent. For instance: OPPORTUNITY: “The enemy gave us an opportunity to surrender.”
ACTION: “We surrendered to the enemy.”
Fourth, it would be inconsistent to say that God grants some people repentance, when in 2 Peter he grants this to everyone. How could God grant some people repentance, when it’s clear that he doesn’t want “any” to perish but for “all” to come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9)?
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes it causes them to repent, its indicated in the lexicon as well. The word give didōm:
b. the noun denotes something to be done by him to whom it is said to be given: διδόναι τινὶ μετάνοιαν, to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18; γνῶσιν https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1325/kjv/tr/0-1/
brightfame52
Active Member
It shows that purging away sin is Salvation
brightfame52
Active Member
He causes the repentance by His Power and Grace
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes He does, He causes them to repent, it cant be hindered. Jesus has all power friend Matt 28 18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth
synergy
Active Member
Thanks so much for telling us about that Calvinism-slaying verse. Psalm 79:9 is indeed an act of faith for the purging of our sins. Send us more Calvinism-slaying verses. Don't stop now. You're doing a great job.
You can’t resist something that isn’t being given. Acts 7:51 shows people resist the Holy Spirit, so God must be genuinely giving repentance and calling them.
But if that giving were irresistible, resistance would be impossible. Therefore, “giving repentance” must be resistible, not unilaterally causative.
The giving repentance does cause a desire to repent as you say, but not unilateral repentance. But it is being libertarianly resisted with a negative desire.
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
You ignored this
Nope, he does not irresistibly cause men to repent
(2 Tim. 2:25) Can we repent or does God cause us to repent?
CLAIM: Paul writes that “God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Tim. 2:25). Some interpreters argue that we cannot repent, unless God grants this to us (c.f. Acts 5:31). Does this eliminate the importance of freewill in regard to repentance? In other words, are we responsible for repentance or is God?
RESPONSE: God gives us the opportunity to repent, but we still decide to repent. There are a number of reasons why this is the case:
First, Jesus, Peter, and Paul all call on fallen people to repent. Jesus called for repentance (Mk. 1:15). So did Peter (Acts 3:19). So did Paul (Acts 17:30). These calls for repentance would be an illusion if repentance is actually a gift. In other words, why would God call on us to repent, if this is actually impossible to do? Calvinistic interpreters often counter that God often asks humans to do the impossible, knowing that we cannot do it (Mt. 5:48; Mk. 12:30). However, these calls for perfection are analogous. God’s calls for perfection are the standard that God righteously requires (c.f. Rom. 2:7). Therefore, by appealing to these verses, we are really comparing apples with oranges.
Second, God granted repentance to a group, rather than an individual. We need to be careful not to read the Bible as referring to me, when it is actually referring to we. This corporate language doesn’t fit with the idea that God forced us as individuals to repent and receive him. Instead, Paul is effectually saying that God is breaking into new groups of people. For instance, in Acts 11:18, we read, “God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” Here, the focus is specifically on the Gentiles. However, when God grants repentance to the Gentiles, it is clear that he is not saving every Gentile! Instead, he is simply saying that God is reaching new groups of people. For this reason, we shouldn’t read something into these passages that isn’t there.
Third, being granted repentance refers to an opportunity –not an action. In one sense, being granted repentance is God’s offer (i.e. opportunity). While in another sense, being granted repentance is our decision (i.e. action). Similarly, Paul viewed suffering as being “granted for Christ’s sake” (Phil. 1:29). Of course, when God grants us to suffer, he is not forcing us to suffer. Instead, he simply gives us the opportunity to suffer for the cause of Christ. In a similar way, consider the word “surrender.” This can be used in two complimentary ways: both as an opportunity and an action. Likewise, when God grants us repentance, he is giving us the opportunity to repent. For instance: OPPORTUNITY: “The enemy gave us an opportunity to surrender.”
ACTION: “We surrendered to the enemy.”
Fourth, it would be inconsistent to say that God grants some people repentance, when in 2 Peter he grants this to everyone. How could God grant some people repentance, when it’s clear that he doesn’t want “any” to perish but for “all” to come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9)?
Because he has all power does not mean he uses it in every circumstance.
As always, you ignore scripture
Read and believe scripture
2 Chronicles 6:24 (LEB) — 24 “And if your people Israel are defeated before an enemy because they have sinned against you and they repent and confess your name and pray and plead before you in this house,
2 Chronicles 6:37 (LEB) — 37 but if they repent in the land where they were taken captive and repent and beg you for mercy in the land of their captivity, saying, ‘We have sinned and acted perversely and done wickedly,
Ezekiel 18:30 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.
Ezekiel 18:32 (LEB) — 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”
Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”
Matthew 3:2 (LEB) — 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near!”
Matthew 4:17 (LEB) — 17 From that time on, Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, because the kingdom of heaven is near.”
Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Matthew 12:41 (LEB) — 41 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
Mark 1:15 (LEB) — 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”
Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
God commands men to repent but many men fail to do so
2 Chron 36:15–16 And the Lord God of their fathers sent to them by his messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because he had compassion on his people, and on his dwelling place: But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy.
Jer 7:13 And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the Lord, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not;
Jer 25:3–7 From the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, even unto this day, that is the three and twentieth year, the word of the Lord hath come unto me, and I have spoken unto you, rising early and speaking; but ye have not hearkened. And the Lord hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending them; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear. They said, Turn ye again now every one from his evil way, and from the evil of your doings, and dwell in the land that the Lord hath given unto you and to your fathers for ever and ever: And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt. Yet ye have not hearkened unto me, saith the Lord; that ye might provoke me to anger with the works of your hands to your own hurt.
Jer 35:15–17 I have sent also unto you all my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, Return ye now every man from his evil way, and amend your doings, and go not after other gods to serve them, and ye shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers: but ye have not inclined your ear, nor hearkened unto me. Because the sons of Jonadab the son of Rechab have performed the commandment of their father, which he commanded them; but this people hath not hearkened unto me: Therefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon Judah and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the evil that I have pronounced against them: because I have spoken unto them, but they have not heard; and I have called unto them, but they have not answered.
Zech 7:11–14 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, And stopped their ears, that they should not hear. Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, And the words which the Lord of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: Therefore came a great wrath from the Lord of hosts. Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; So they cried, and I would not hear, saith the Lord of hosts: But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: For they laid the pleasant land desolate.
2 Kings 17:13–14 Yet the Lord testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets. Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the Lord their God.
God commands repentance, but these fail to do so.
You should note nowhere is it stated "grant" means "to irresistibly impose apart from one's will."
Yes, and He had the power to create/implement libertarian free will. And did. You limit God's power.
