The Unconditional Election Debate: An Universalist Perspective

[FreeInChrist]

Good short clip on unconditional election

Ten Reasons you need......

Webster " The meaning of UNCONDITIONAL is not conditional or limited : absolute, unqualified. "

Lets just say... without it NO ONE would be elect. With it ...the Dillon Mulveneys, and Bruce Jenners, Adolph Hitlers, Bonny and Clydes, every mass murderer, the mommy penis tapers (dont say you forgot) , the pedophiles, rapists, and murderers and all agnostics, or athiests have the chance you deny those with free will. Sheeeesh!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[brightfame52]

Ten Reasons you need......

Webster " The meaning of UNCONDITIONAL is not conditional or limited : absolute, unqualified. "

Lets just say... without it NO ONE would be elect. With it ...the Dillon Mulveneys, and Bruce Jenners, Adolph Hitlers, Bonny and Clydes, every mass murderer, the mommy penis tapers (dont say you forgot) , the pedophiles, rapists, and murderers and all agnostics, or athiests have the chance you deny those with free will. Sheeeesh!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you listen to the clip ?

 

[synergy]

Okay so that means the non believer who is unregenerate and in the flesh cant please God. So how in the world will they be able to believe in Christ while in the flesh ? They cant, because they which are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 So what you just said was a waste of time

Rom 10:8-13 does prove that unregenerates can please God when they stop catering to their fleshly desires and start to confess and believe Christ. They are then saved by God. Rom 10:8-13 is definitely not a waste of time.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 10:8-13 does prove that unregenerates can please God

No it doesnt, that would be a direct contradiction to Rom 8:8 so that shows your understanding is faulty

 

[Doug Brents]

No it doesnt, that would be a direct contradiction to Rom 8:8 so that shows your understanding is faulty

It contradicts your understanding of Rom 8:8, but then your understanding is faulty and cannot be trusted.

 

[FreeInChrist]

No it doesnt, that would be a direct contradiction to Rom 8:8 so that shows your understanding is faulty

Quoting Romans 8:8 doesn’t erase Romans 10.
Romans 10 directly commands unbelievers to believe and call on Christ to be saved.
If they’re incapable of responding, Paul’s commands are meaningless.
Romans 8 is about living in fleshly rebellion, not an inability to respond to the gospel.
Otherwise no one could ever be saved.
You’re forcing a system onto the text instead of letting the text speak.

If Romans 8 means unbelievers can’t respond to God at all, then no one could ever believe the gospel. Yet Romans 10 literally commands them to. Your interpretation creates the contradiction, not mine.

 

[brightfame52]

It contradicts your understanding of Rom 8:8

No it doesnt. Rom 8:8 is plain as the new day sun, they which are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. This applies to the natural unregenerate man

 

[brightfame52]

Quoting Romans 8:8 doesn’t erase Romans 10.

I didnt say it did. But when understanding Rom 10 we must not erase what was previously said plainly in Rom 8:8 No matter what, they which be in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[brightfame52]

If Romans 8 means unbelievers can’t respond to God at all, then no one could ever believe the gospel.

They can respond positively if theyre regenerated first, then the Gospel informs their spiritual ears and gives them assurance.

 

[brightfame52]

Yet Romans 10 literally commands them to.

Thats false, there isnt any command given in Rom 10. Even if it was it wouldnt be to the unregenerate, but only to the regenerate

 

[Doug Brents]

No it doesnt. Rom 8:8 is plain as the new day sun, they which are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. This applies to the natural unregenerate man

It is your interpretation of what it means to be "in the flesh" that causes you to interpret that verse wrongly. But we have been through that over and over; you refuse to listen to Scripture and so continue in your error.

 

[civic]

It contradicts your understanding of Rom 8:8, but then your understanding is faulty and cannot be trusted.

ditto

 

[civic]

I didnt say it did. But when understanding Rom 10 we must not erase what was previously said plainly in Rom 8:8 No matter what, they which be in the flesh cannot please God.

Jesus became flesh, lived in the flesh yet did not sin. He was God manifest in the flesh. He was made like us in every way.
But you would have Jesus flesh as a superman suit unlike ours.

hmmmmmm

 

[brightfame52]

It is your interpretation of what it means to be "in the flesh" that causes you to interpret that verse wrongly. But we have been through that over and over; you refuse to listen to Scripture and so continue in your error.

Lol its plain as day, to be in the flesh means to not have the Spirit, to be unregenerate. Paul says in the very next verse they which have the Spirit are not in the flesh Vs 9

9 ;But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So simple deductive reasoning can see the ones in the flesh are the ones the Spirit doesnt dwell in, the unregenerate. Duh

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus became flesh, lived in the flesh yet did not sin. He was God manifest in the flesh. He was made like us in every way.
But you would have Jesus flesh as a superman suit unlike ours.

hmmmmmm

already discussed

 

[civic]

already discussed

yes Jesus being made in the flesh exposes your error about the flesh

 

[brightfame52]

yes Jesus being made in the flesh exposes your error about the flesh

Are you saying Jesus was born a sinner like other people ?

 

[civic]

Are you saying Jesus was born a sinner like other people ?

nope since TD is unbibilcal and no one is born a sinner- Original sin is nothing but a fantasy, not a biblical reality.

 

[brightfame52]

nope since TD is unbibilcal and no one is born a sinner- Original sin is nothing but a fantasy, not a biblical reality.

Okay I disagree with you. I believe you in error in that regard, nothing I can do to change that. Now that said, according to my convictions and according to Rom 8:8 they which be in the flesh are the unregenerate without the Spirit as its stated in Jude here Jude 1:19

These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

As such they cant please God. You can be as religous and sincere , moral honest as can be, but they never can please God. Mans only hope of pleasing God is first being born again, otherwise as Jesus said Jn 3:6-7

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

But Jesus in the flesh didnt need to be born again, He was without sin and or sin nature.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Are you saying Jesus was born a sinner like other people ?

He was born in the flesh.