The True Plan of Redemption Not Often Taught In Denominations of Man

[charismaticlady]

God had to take drastic measures after Satan sinned in the Garden and tempted Eve to unintentionally disobey God and she caused Adam to willfully sin causing all mankind from then on to inherit a sin nature. However, God had foreknowledge and the plan of redemption was already thought out even before creation.

Because all mankind from then on sin and fall short of the glory of God, a perfect part of God, the Word, had to empty Himself of His supernatural glories and take on human form in order to destroy the works of Satan by shedding His human blood and dying for you and me. Because Adam was human and committed a sin unto death willfully, only another human man who was sinless could atone for mankind and save it. The blood of bulls and goats could only cover our sins, but could not take it away. But Jesus was still God so could remain sinless and his body suffered no corruption, but succeeded in being able to take away the sin nature out of all who accepted His sacrifice for us. This made it possible for any of us to be cleansed and have no desire to sin instead of being a slave to sin we were born as. The recreated new nature God puts in us was from the seed of the Father making us literally children of God who can partake of the divine nature of God through God's indwelling Spirit of Christ. But only Jesus was begotten from birth and has the birthright of being God. The rest of us have sinned and our body will see corruption unlike Jesus who is still part of our One Triune God.

 

[amazing grace]

God had to take drastic measures after Satan sinned in the Garden and tempted Eve to unintentionally disobey God and she caused Adam to willfully sin causing all mankind from then on to inherit a sin nature. However, God had foreknowledge and the plan of redemption was already thought out even before creation.

I responded to this when you posted it in the thread 'Jesus denied being God'. So, I am going to copy and paste it here - it is a more suitable place.
Satan sinned before he tempted Eve in the garden. I don't believe Eve caused Adam to sin I believe he was there throughout the temptation 'she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.'
Humanity inherited the penalty for sin, i.e. death ---- sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so
death spread to all men because all sinned— [Romans 5:12] .... the wages of sin is death. [Romans 6:23]
I agree that God, in his foreknowledge, had specific plans and purposes for humanity's redemption which included his Son.

Because all mankind from then on sin and fall short of the glory of God, a perfect part of God, the Word, had to empty Himself of His supernatural glories and take on human form in order to destroy the works of Satan by shedding His human blood and dying for you and me. Because Adam was human and committed a sin unto death willfully, only another human man who was sinless could atone for mankind and save it. The blood of bulls and goats could only cover our sins, but could not take it away. But Jesus was still God so could remain sinless and his body suffered no corruption, but succeeded in being able to take away the sin nature out of all who accepted His sacrifice for us. This made it possible for any of us to be cleansed and have no desire to sin instead of being a slave to sin we were born as. The recreated new nature God puts in us was from the seed of the Father making us literally children of God who can partake of the divine nature of God through God's indwelling Spirit of Christ. But only Jesus was begotten from birth and has the birthright of being God. The rest of us have sinned and our body will see corruption unlike Jesus who is still part of our One Triune God.

Correct, all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
<snip> Jesus, the Son of God, the Messiah came to destroy the works of the devil........ The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. [1 John 3:8b]
Yes, Jesus died for you and me --- but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. [Romans 5:7]

Correct, only another human being could atone for mankind and Adam was a type of the one who was to come [Rom. 5:14b]
we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation......[Rom. 5:10,11] Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, [2 Cor. 5:17-19]. <snip> Jesus was/is the Son of God, the Messiah.

Yes, we are partakers of the divine nature and we have been given the gift of holy spirit. [Acts 2:38; 2 Peter 1:4]
When Jesus returns we will be raised from the dead and given an immortal spiritual body just as he was given when he was raised from the dead exalted to the right hand of God his Father.
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. [1 John 3:2]

 

[jeremiah1five]

God had to take drastic measures after Satan sinned in the Garden and tempted Eve to unintentionally disobey God and she caused Adam to willfully sin causing all mankind from then on to inherit a sin nature. However, God had foreknowledge and the plan of redemption was already thought out even before creation.

Because all mankind from then on sin and fall short of the glory of God, a perfect part of God, the Word, had to empty Himself of His supernatural glories and take on human form in order to destroy the works of Satan by shedding His human blood and dying for you and me. Because Adam was human and committed a sin unto death willfully, only another human man who was sinless could atone for mankind and save it. The blood of bulls and goats could only cover our sins, but could not take it away. But Jesus was still God so could remain sinless and his body suffered no corruption, but succeeded in being able to take away the sin nature out of all who accepted His sacrifice for us. This made it possible for any of us to be cleansed and have no desire to sin instead of being a slave to sin we were born as. The recreated new nature God puts in us was from the seed of the Father making us literally children of God who can partake of the divine nature of God through God's indwelling Spirit of Christ. But only Jesus was begotten from birth and has the birthright of being God. The rest of us have sinned and our body will see corruption unlike Jesus who is still part of our One Triune God.

Per Peter the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. They are not free in this world and have no influence upon men.

2 Peter 2:4.

 

[charismaticlady]

Satan sinned before he tempted Eve in the garden.

I always thought the same until I read Ezekiel 28.

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

This is why God didn't curse Satan until he sinned in the Garden, and also the serpent he used.

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Per Peter the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. They are not free in this world and have no influence upon men.

2 Peter 2:4.

Do you believe Satan is already locked up?

 

[charismaticlady]

Per Peter the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. They are not free in this world and have no influence upon men.

2 Peter 2:4.

So, what's your point?

 

[amazing grace]

I always thought the same until I read Ezekiel 28.

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

I believe the above is about Satan and Isaiah speaks more about his fall: PRIDE
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! (Lucifer KJV) How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ [Isaiah 14] He fell because he wanted to be like the Most High.......Adam and Eve fell because they believed his lie --- You will be like God (the Most High) .......

This is why God didn't curse Satan until he sinned in the Garden, and also the serpent he used. 14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Do you believe Satan is already locked up?

No.

The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” [Job 1:7; 2:2] and 1 Peter 5:8 :
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So, what's your point?

Read it again. THAT'S my point.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:3–4.

And no, this is not because of Genesis 6. The angels that sinned were taken out of the way before man was created.

 

[charismaticlady]

Read it again. THAT'S my point.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:3–4.

And no, this is not because of Genesis 6. The angels that sinned were taken out of the way before man was created.

Where did you get that idea? It just sounded off the wall as it is far from the subject of the OP.

But seeing as you brought it up out of context, what do you think about the angels of Genesis 6 being the "sons of God"? I think Jude makes it very clear that somehow angels committed sexual immorality with "strange flesh."

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Where did you get that idea? It just sounded off the wall as it is far from the subject of the OP.

But seeing as you brought it up out of context, what do you think about the angels of Genesis 6 being the "sons of God"? I think Jude makes it very clear that somehow angels committed sexual immorality with "strange flesh."

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The angels do not have genitals nor were they created for sex as there are no female angels.
Spirits cannot mate with material beings. God decreed that His created animals, insect, etc., are to mate after "their kind" and angels and man are not similar creations. Besides this fallen angels do not engage in holy matrimony. There are other considerations.

 

[charismaticlady]

The angels do not have genitals nor were they created for sex as there are no female angels.
Spirits cannot mate with material beings. God decreed that His created animals, insect, etc., are to mate after "their kind" and angels and man are not similar creations. Besides this fallen angels do not engage in holy matrimony. There are other considerations.

yet their sin was sexual immorality. Hmmmmm

 

[Studyman]

I always thought the same until I read Ezekiel 28.

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

Thank you for sharing that perception, it is good in my view, that folks study and discuss Scriptures on their own. I would add some of my own observations, which I think are important to include in this study, but please understand, I am all about studying on our own, as opposed to just accepting the traditions and philosophies of some religious sect, that existed in the world God placed me in. So Good for you in your studies.

Gen. 2: 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward "in Eden"; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

A couple of things here, Eden existed before God created Adam and Eve. The garden existed before God placed Adam and Eve there. And the Serpent was also in the Eden for God placed the man there. We don't know how long.

I can see how you might come to the conclusion that whatever satan is, it didn't become evil until after Adam and Eve were placed by God into Eden. But there is nothing in Ezekiel that even mentions Adam or Eve. And Eden and the Garden of God existed before God placed mortals there. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that it seem prudent to consider these truths, in our study.

I believe that any free will being, in order to live with other free will beings, must place limitations on it's own free will. God Himself has free will, who can do anything HE wants, at any time, whatever suites Him. But HE places limitations on His Own free Will. God places the limitation of patience, on His own free will. Compassion, Just Judgment, brutal honesty, forgiveness etc,. No one is forcing God to place these limitations on His own free will. HE freely places these Limitations of His Own Free will, for the Good of all the others that exist in His Kingdom.

Eve had the same free will in the likeness of God, but how can she know this. So God told her to place a limitation on her own free will, for her own well being. She had the capacity to listen to God, and turn away from the "other voices" in the world God placed her in, and submit to God's Instruction regarding her free will. But She also had the same capacity, "Because of her free will", to turn away from God's voice, and do whatever was in her heart to do. She, like all of us, chose to Reject God's Teaching, and succumbed to her unbridled free will, which is a disaster, just as God's Kingdom would be a disaster if HE didn't place the limitation of Compassion and Patience on His Own Free will..

As a parent, I have seen the will of a child. We as parents, spend the first at least 5 years, teaching the child to place the limits we instruct, on it's free will. To rule over emotion, think before they act. And mostly, how important it is to trust their Mom and Dad to direct them, as they posses the most love and concern for them that any other human on earth.

Anyway, I really appreciate that you are seeking to understand God's Word, and not just seeking justification for an adopted religious philosophy.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[jeremiah1five]

yet their sin was sexual immorality. Hmmmmm

That's what you believe but Scripture does not support that.
Spirit beings are foreign to material beings and are not of the same creative order. God did not create angels with genitals and their "DNA" is NOT compatible. Fallen angels do not engage in HOLY matrimony. Spirit and material bodies are not compatible. Your theology is totally incompatible with Scripture. Angels do not have free will. There is only ONE Will: God's. ALL CREATION OBEYS God. Even fallen angels. Besides this, Peter, Jude, and Isaiah say the angels that sinned are locked up and their sin was NOT anything they did. It was that their creation did not possess any of God's Deific Attributes and Nature. They were created fallen short of the glory that is God. There is ONLY ONE GOD, there is NONE LIKE HIM, and He gives His glory to NO ONE.

 

[charismaticlady]

That's what you believe but Scripture does not support that.
Spirit beings are foreign to material beings and are not of the same creative order. God did not create angels with genitals and their "DNA" is NOT compatible. Fallen angels do not engage in HOLY matrimony. Spirit and material bodies are not compatible. Your theology is totally incompatible with Scripture. Angels do not have free will. There is only ONE Will: God's. ALL CREATION OBEYS God. Even fallen angels. Besides this, Peter, Jude, and Isaiah say the angels that sinned are locked up and their sin was NOT anything they did. It was that their creation did not possess any of God's Deific Attributes and Nature. They were created fallen short of the glory that is God. There is ONLY ONE GOD, there is NONE LIKE HIM, and He gives His glory to NO ONE.

I don't agree with any of your theories here. Sorry.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I don't agree with any of your theories here. Sorry.

There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
The next time you are driving and stick your hand out the window and the wind blows upon your flesh make sure to make it wear a edit by admin

 

[Administrator]

@jeremiah1five

@charismaticlady

This fits right in here. Let's give it a try.

The term "cordial" refers to a warm and friendly demeanor, often associated with genuine kindness and sincerity. It implies a level of warmth and friendliness that goes beyond mere social norms, suggesting a heartfelt connection with others. In contrast, "polite" focuses on adherence to social manners and etiquette, often without the personal warmth that cordiality embodies. While both terms describe respectful behavior, cordiality is more about warmth and sincerity, whereas politeness is about following social rules and conventions.

 

[charismaticlady]

@jeremiah1five

@charismaticlady

This fits right in here. Let's give it a try.

The term "cordial" refers to a warm and friendly demeanor, often associated with genuine kindness and sincerity. It implies a level of warmth and friendliness that goes beyond mere social norms, suggesting a heartfelt connection with others. In contrast, "polite" focuses on adherence to social manners and etiquette, often without the personal warmth that cordiality embodies. While both terms describe respectful behavior, cordiality is more about warmth and sincerity, whereas politeness is about following social rules and conventions.

Why are you talking to me about this? I'm not the one who responded with a dirty mind. All I said was "I don't agree with any of your theories here. Sorry." I was being apologetic.

 

[Administrator]

Correct. Just responding to a report I received.

 

[charismaticlady]

Correct. Just responding to a report I received.

Okay, I just didn't want my reputation corrupted in the process.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Per Peter the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. They are not free in this world and have no influence upon men.

2 Peter 2:4.

A statement I can almost endorse when you realize if this be so then FREE WILL is running amok.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Why are you talking to me about this? I'm not the one who responded with a dirty mind. All I said was "I don't agree with any of your theories here. Sorry." I was being apologetic.

How were my comments "dirty"? Explain.